Is Australia its own Worst Enemy?

[Andu]

Good to see the Usual Suspects (if under new identities) following their tried and true practice of attempting to get any thread that doesn't agree with their personal political bias closed down - as they so successfully did over on JetBlast.

For those who say that this thread lacks meaningful aviation content - if the current political situation continues on the path its on at the moment and this country ends up in the state that the Reds a.k.a. Greens want it to be, there'll be precious little aviation content anywhere in Australia!

[T28D]

Sometimes it needs a bit of a look outside to get perspective, I have just come home from Scandinavia and Russia, note there are NO GENERAL AVIATION aircraft in the sky, avgas is $5 AUD a litre and Mogas $3 AUD a litre, Deisel a very close cost as well.

We WILL FOLLOW this trend if we are not careful, at present we live in a protected society, everyone needs to be really careful we don't slip down the Europen slope of social Brussels Burearocrat Engineering.

IT SIMPLY COSTS TOO MUCH

Am I shouting, yes because I don't personally think Australians are savvy enough to understand that it is not "peak Oil" that is crippling Europe, it is rampant bureacracy that has not been controlled and is eating the once stable "mother of civilisation" !!!!!

Bureacracy has no viable parents, it is a cancer that is self sustaining and very destructive.

[Worrals in the wilds]

But like cancer the question still remains... How do you get rid of it?

[sisemen]

This thread is entertaining, but there are much better sites to visit for constructive debate on these issues.

Away ye go then Jimmy. You probably won't be missed.

[Deepsea Racing Prawn]

illigitimate Labor Government

If Oakeshott and Windsor had decided to fall in line behind Tony Abbott would you have regarded the resulting Coalition minority government to be illegitimate too, and if not, why not?

[Frank Arouet]

rampant bureacracy that has not been controlled and is eating the once stable "mother of civilisation"

And soon to be exponentially cloned with a new regulatory body to police and promulgate laws for a "carbon trading/ tax." Probably as dangerous as CASA and Human Services, to name but two, and as useless and intrusive as The Bureau of Statistics.

EDIT to add: I can't think of anything nice to say to the live prawn bait, so I won't say anything. People who engage him will soon see why similar threads have been closed on jetblast.

[Andu]

You raise a very good - and very pertinent - point there, Prawn.

I think Tony Abbott says and extra decade of the rosary every night to thank God that Oakeshott and Windsor took the course they did in supporting Gillard, for his (Abbott's) attempt at minority government with independents and the Reds/Greens holding him over a barrel at every turn would have been (in my opinion) even more disastrous than what we've seen since last August.

Why? Any policy Abbott tried to enact would be far, far more removed from what the Reds/Greens want thn Gillard's have proven to be, so there really would be substance in a Greens' threat to stop backing him if he didn't deliver their brand of goods, (unlike the situation Gillard finds herself in - but doesn't realise it - where any such threat by Bob Brown is total bluff with absolutely no substance).

Rather than rampart bureaucracy, I would characterize the situation in Europe more as approaching the end game after fifty+ years of the Welfare State, where the majority of citizens have become used to living on government handouts of one description or another, to the point where the current generation's sense of entitlement has become inbred in many if not most from birth. The system has worked wonderfully well - so long as there was other people's money to finance it. However, that money has not only run out, the European governments have borrowed much, much more money - money they can never hope to repay - to maintain the illusion, and illusion that has caused tens of thousands of people from Africa, Eastern Europe, India and all points in between to flock there to enjoy the fruits of the seemingly endless gravy train. (And when the gravy train turns out to be a little less appealing than the illusion, we see the result - the anarchy of the last four days in the streets of UK cities.)

And what is the Gillard government doing with its endless promises of "compensation" (or should that be "compeynsaychion"?) or even over compensation for the poor and not so poor for every ridiculous tax they propose to impose? Unbelievably, after seeing it doesn't work, they're following the European example.

[sisemen]

If Oakeshott and Windsor had decided to fall in line behind Tony Abbott would you have regarded the resulting Coalition minority government to be illegitimate too, and if not, why not?

Windsor got 61.9% of the vote having been a previously centre right supporter. Labor + Greens + other assorted left wing ratbags got 11.7%. The remainder of the right parties (Nats etc) got 26.4%. That's 88.3% of the electorate putting their vote to what they thought was a centre right supporting candidate.

Oakshott got 47.1%, again, having previously been a centre right supporter. The assorted left wing ratbags combined got 17.8% and the right wing parties 35.1%. Thats 82.2% of the electorate putting their vote to what they thought was a centre right supporting candidate.

And that, for the slow of learning and hard of understanding, is why, had they sided with Abbott, it would have given him more legitimacy in forming a government than the current situation.

Anyone not understanding that very very simple truth should think hard before trying to debate on here rather than spouting unthinking party dogma.

And that's why it is unlikely that Oakshott and Windsor will survive any future election. And speaking of oblivion, I thought you said you were off Jimmy??

[Deepsea Racing Prawn]

I can't think of anything nice to say

You don't have to say anything nice, just a constructive response like Andu's would suffice.

[De_flieger]

Thats one interpretation of the results sisemen, another one is that given the option of voting National, which is a vote for Abbott and the coalition, or voting for Windsor, 61.9% of the electorate did not vote for the coalition. As there was the option of voting coalition, independent, alp or green, 61.9% choosing independent shows that the electorate wasnt that keen on an Abbott government either. The coalition ran a candidate in Windsors electorate, and he didnt get elected, by a fairly large margin.

The same thing occurred in Oakeshotts electorate, where a coalition candidate contested the seat against independent, greens and labour, losing by a fairly substantial margin. That hardly shows that either seat was secretly barracking for the coalition and someone else got in by stealth against the will of the populace.
I dont think the coalition was helped by Barnaby Joyce appearing on tv on election night and insulting the independents who would be necessary to form a government either...

[Ovation]

If Oakeshott and Windsor had decided to fall in line behind Tony Abbott would you have regarded the resulting Coalition minority government to be illegitimate too, and if not, why not?

Deepsea Racing Prawn

(while I was composing this response others were obviously at it as well)


The MP's are elected to represent the will of the people in their particular electorate.

In Windsor's electorate of New England in 2010, the people voted 8.13% ALP, 3.57% Greens, 25.22% Nationals, and 61.88% for Windsor IND. Windsor himself is (or was) a conservative himself in a typical conservative country electorate.

Therefore, twice as many voted for the coalition (25.22%) as did for the combined ALP and Greens (11.7%). On these figures the seat of New England is definitely not an ALP stronghold, and Windsor supporting Gillard has ignored the conservative nature of his electorate.


In Oakeshott's electorate of Lyne in 2010, the people voted 13.49% ALP, 4.29% Greens, 34.39% Nationals, and 47.15% for Oakshott IND. Twice as many voted for the coalition (34.39%) as did for the combined ALP/Greens (17.78%), and the argument for Lyne is equally as valid as for New England.

Similar to Windsor, Oakeshott's political career until 2002 was conservative, and by supporting Gillard has ignored the wishes of his conservative electorate.

Bottom Line? When (and if) Oakeshott and Windsor face their electorate, they'd be lucky to get into double figures, and I'll bet Bill Shorten's house that Windsor will be too chicken to stand again. Anecdotal evidence is both their electorates have been buying baseball bats in anticipation.

Moving forward to the question of illegitimacy, by supporting an un-elected Prime Minister in a minority government, Oakeshott and Windsor, ensured the supremacy of the Greens when it came to policy development.

I personally don't think they should have supported the coalition, given that for these troubled times we need strong decisive government, and it would have been better to go back to the polls. The cost of another Federal election would have been peanuts to what its costing the Nation to have such incompetence and "thought bubble" decision making from Gillard et al.

And in keeping with this thread, YES, there will be carbon tax on AVGAS.

Gillard did solemnly say just 5 days before the 2010 election there wouldn't be, but in a typical "Bait and Switch" we now know she's a fraud.

I could never forgive Gillard's behaviour, and Craig Emerson's ex-wife probably wouldn't either.

[sisemen]

Fully agree with what you say Flieger but one other element which cannot be discounted is that an electorate tends to stay with the incumbent and like it or like it not both Oakshott and Windsor had, up until that point, built up a faithful 'conservative' following.

What is uncontestable is that both electorates have historically been centre right - ergo, to support a left coalition with the ultra left Greens was a denial of the electorate's wishes.

And given the uncanny ability of this present government's ability to screw up everything that they have turned their hand to that is why there is so much angst about the illegitimacy of this dysfunctional bunch of ratbags.

[Wiley]

Anecdotal evidence is both their electorates have been buying baseball bats in anticipation.

I've just spent the last few days in Rob oakeshott's electorate of Lyne and while there, asked a number of people how they regard their local federal member. Leaving out the many words in their replies that would get me banned from this and many other sites, suffice to say that I found no one - and I mean not one person - with a good word to say about the man. I'm sure there must be some who still support him, but many of not most people there are not happy with him.

Apparently, he has been almost unseen in and around Port MacQuarie since 'that' infamous seventeen minute speech, only surfacing at a public event in the Port in the last week or so, one that was decscribed to me as 'unavoidable'.

If what I heard from the admittedly small number of people I spoke to is any indication, his numbers will not be good at the next election. However, what surprised me was that two people I spoke to believe he is so thick-skinned (some would say 'out of touch') that they both believe he will stand again come the next election.

[Frank Arouet]

If Oakeshott and Windsor had decided to fall in line behind Tony Abbott would you have regarded the resulting Coalition minority government to be illegitimate too, and if not, why not?

It is my belief that Abbott would have seen the folly of trying to govern with a minority government and called an immediate election, (ala' ante Whitlam/Kerr), to legitimise his position.

To this end he would have bounded in and we would now be complaining about Truss as Aviation Minister and wouldn't have The Greens to cause us grief because they would have "vaporised" into oblivion like The Democrats, (God bless them).

But we won't know for sure because someone else beat him to the position of illigitimate government and refused to confirm "HER" mandate (?) to govern with an election after MISREPRESENTING, (LYING) to the PUBLIC COMPANY SHAREHOLDERS she now Chairs.

ASIC would have shut any other Public Company down immediately.

[Andu]

Given that the US national debt translates to approx $43,000 per citizen and the (much smaller, we are always assured) Australian national debt translates to approx $52,000 per citizen, the clip below probably applies no less to the Australian voter than it does to the US voter.

YouTube - Brother, Can You Spare A Trillion?: Government Gone Wild!

I see another boat containing 100+ asylum seekers arrived today... having what effect I wonder on our national debt?

[sisemen]

Wayne the Dunce must be worried. With a new recession on the skyline and having spent up big time and exhausted the coffers left behind by the previous Government he's got nothing in the pot to fund another cash splash if this government needed it.

And is it me or does Chris Bowen look even more like a rabbit caught in the headlights nowadays?

[Frank Arouet]

Has anybody written to Honorable Warren Truss, National Party, Shadow Minister for Transport to voice their concerns?

I did, and he can't be bothered to respond to my concerns. (fkucing bigshot)! Even my local Member can't be bothered to respond despite his Nats credentials and my being a constituent. (another idiot that won't get another vote from me).

Get rid of the Labor freak show, but plan for the arrogance of the new encumbancy which we "WILL" inherit absolutly, ( a word I hate), for the next term.

If we don't put the next mob on notice, once again, we will get the government we deserve.

Use your anger wisely.

[PLovett]

Don't any of you lot understand that ALL politicians, no matter what their party affiliations, are the same. There are no differences. The nature of politics today ensures that they are only concerned with the swinging voter and with modern media that is a matter of a video/sound bite. There is no substance. The situation will remain unchanged until there is a widespread voter revolt at that form of politics.

[ReverseFlight]

Baillieu rails for Avalon

Melbourne Airport is the nation's second busiest, handling about 28 million passengers on 200,000 thousand flights a year, while Avalon sees six Jetstar flights a day now that Tiger has pulled out from operating there. State aviation minister Gordon Rich-Phillips justified putting the Avalon rail link first on the grounds it was easier and was a long-term investment, while routing a train to Melbourne Airport was complicated by surrounding urban development. ''Avalon is a clearer project than Melbourne in terms of the logistics associated with doing it,'' Mr Rich-Phillips said.

I reeled with disbelief when I read this. Why would you think Mr Baillieu suggested this ? For exactly the same reasons as his proposals to extend the Mornington Freeway: Study eyes Peninsula freeway

VICROADS has begun a study to look at traffic and safety on the Mornington Peninsula, which could result in the peninsula's freeway being extended from Rosebud to Blairgowrie ... The Baillieu government has committed $200,000 to a congestion study for the peninsula.

Clue: Mr B is an architect by profession and his family's real estate firm is Baillieu Knight Frank (source: Wikipedia).

[Andu]

Hamid Karzai signs law 'legalising rape in marriage' - Telegraph

And our soldiers are dying to allow this man to establish his government in Kabul.