I'm curious: most sensible order for australian commercial license?
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I'm curious: most sensible order for australian commercial license?
Hi everyone!
I spent some time researching on pprune & the www but was unable to find a quick and simple answer on my question. But I'm sure you guys can help me out...
What is the best order to gain your australian "frozen ATPL" (modular)?
I know the way to do it here in Europe...:
First get your PPL + required hours as PIC, then sit the ATPL exams (which includes IR+CPL theory) and after that complete the IR + CPL practical stuff. Maybe add a MCC and you are done.
But what is the most sensible order in CASA-land? I'm curious how you did it!?
cheers
maehhh
I spent some time researching on pprune & the www but was unable to find a quick and simple answer on my question. But I'm sure you guys can help me out...
What is the best order to gain your australian "frozen ATPL" (modular)?
I know the way to do it here in Europe...:
First get your PPL + required hours as PIC, then sit the ATPL exams (which includes IR+CPL theory) and after that complete the IR + CPL practical stuff. Maybe add a MCC and you are done.
But what is the most sensible order in CASA-land? I'm curious how you did it!?
cheers
maehhh
Last edited by maehhh; 16th Jul 2011 at 21:58.
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A few years ago I did GFPT-CPL (theory and flight)-ATPL (theory)-IR but if I had the chance again to up my exam ratings I would have left ATPL Air Law until after the IR. But either way gets the licence done. I know people who did a SE IR during the CPL then upgraded to a twin after but this was just a more expensive way to do it rating.
The only difference with Australia is that there is no point to paying for the MCC in the schools that offer it as it will never find you a job (unless your a special Q cadet even then most of them got sent away last time around)
The only difference with Australia is that there is no point to paying for the MCC in the schools that offer it as it will never find you a job (unless your a special Q cadet even then most of them got sent away last time around)
How it's done depends on whether doing the equivalent of modular or integrated. Most CPLs are done in single engine a/c.
Modular would typically be:
BAK exam - Basic aeronautical knowledge
GFPT - General Flying Progress Test. Optional. Occurs about halfway to PPL. Grants some broader privileges to a student pilot.
PPL exam.
PPL - Minimum 40 hours
Hour building + the following:
----------
Night VFR rating - adds N.VFR privileges to a licence
CPL theory - Note that ATPL theory in Oz does not cover CPL content so both CPL & ATPL exams sets must be done, although CPL exams would cover PPL exams if one chose to do it that way.
----------
CPL - Min 200 hours experience ie includes the whole of your flying experience, not just training time.
If going down the instructor path:
IPM exam - Instructional principles & methods
Grade 3 instructor test - Min. 50 hours flight training
Grade 2 instructor test- Min 250 hours instructional experience
Grade 1 instructor test - Min 750 hours instructional experience
-----------
At some point:
Initial twin endorsement
CIR exam - Command Instrument Rating
CIR test - usually in a twin
ATPL exams.
=================
Integrated depends on the school's syllabus. Min 150 hours *training* i.a.w. a 150hr syllabus. GFPT and/or PPL may not be done ie train directly to CPL test. N.VFR may not be included. CIR & ATPL theory may or may not be part of the course but if included would usually be after the CPL.
Modular would typically be:
BAK exam - Basic aeronautical knowledge
GFPT - General Flying Progress Test. Optional. Occurs about halfway to PPL. Grants some broader privileges to a student pilot.
PPL exam.
PPL - Minimum 40 hours
Hour building + the following:
----------
Night VFR rating - adds N.VFR privileges to a licence
CPL theory - Note that ATPL theory in Oz does not cover CPL content so both CPL & ATPL exams sets must be done, although CPL exams would cover PPL exams if one chose to do it that way.
----------
CPL - Min 200 hours experience ie includes the whole of your flying experience, not just training time.
If going down the instructor path:
IPM exam - Instructional principles & methods
Grade 3 instructor test - Min. 50 hours flight training
Grade 2 instructor test- Min 250 hours instructional experience
Grade 1 instructor test - Min 750 hours instructional experience
-----------
At some point:
Initial twin endorsement
CIR exam - Command Instrument Rating
CIR test - usually in a twin
ATPL exams.
=================
Integrated depends on the school's syllabus. Min 150 hours *training* i.a.w. a 150hr syllabus. GFPT and/or PPL may not be done ie train directly to CPL test. N.VFR may not be included. CIR & ATPL theory may or may not be part of the course but if included would usually be after the CPL.
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What I have done and am planning to do with myself:
BAK theory
GFPT
PPL Theory
PPL
Hour building for CPL
CSU / RG / Tailwheel
CPL theory (Yeah, I procrastinated too much, little lesson for the future)
CPL test.
Now I have my CPL, I'm currently doing my IREX as I suspect it's going to help with my night rating (and of course IR when I get around to it).
I'm going to be starting night rating in the next few weeks
After the IREX I'll probably begin my ATPL theory. I haven't got around to thinking about when I'll do my actual IR. (When I have money and have a reason to have it and keep renewing it, I guess?)
BAK theory
GFPT
PPL Theory
PPL
Hour building for CPL
CSU / RG / Tailwheel
CPL theory (Yeah, I procrastinated too much, little lesson for the future)
CPL test.
Now I have my CPL, I'm currently doing my IREX as I suspect it's going to help with my night rating (and of course IR when I get around to it).
I'm going to be starting night rating in the next few weeks
After the IREX I'll probably begin my ATPL theory. I haven't got around to thinking about when I'll do my actual IR. (When I have money and have a reason to have it and keep renewing it, I guess?)
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Alright I see it is somewhat different over here!
Does this mean that in Australia you get your first job commonly without holding an IR?
I reckon in Europe you would waste your time applying anywhere without IR cause there is no chance you get a job this way... but of course there isn't much GA around here...
cheers
maehhh
Does this mean that in Australia you get your first job commonly without holding an IR?
I reckon in Europe you would waste your time applying anywhere without IR cause there is no chance you get a job this way... but of course there isn't much GA around here...
cheers
maehhh
GA is a large part of the fabric of Australia's aviation industry. A lot of charter flights - tourist scenic flights as well as getting people from A-->B - is done under VFR. An IR is not required for this, no matter how far the distance and nor is there the JAR 700 hour min. experience for single pilot public transport. On the instructing side, it's a prerequisite to be qualified to fly VFR at night before getting an instructor rating. A Night VFR rating satisfies this so no need to bother with an IR until later in one's career when you might expect to need it.
Airline sponsored or affiliated cadet courses aren't the norm. The common career progression is to either instruct in singles then twins and then move into multi engine charter, or head out bush and do single engine VFR charter and then move into multi charter. After gaining whatever experience the job market requires the next move is usually towards an airline.
Airline sponsored or affiliated cadet courses aren't the norm. The common career progression is to either instruct in singles then twins and then move into multi engine charter, or head out bush and do single engine VFR charter and then move into multi charter. After gaining whatever experience the job market requires the next move is usually towards an airline.
