Is RACWA on finals? YOU WERE WARNED!!
Professional pilots who agree to fly for nothing are no better than the 
who tell them to do it.
It's a bit different if it is for a worthy cause such as angel flight, but with these TIFs someone somewhere along the line must be making a profit. If not, why are they doing it?
I wonder, are they covered by compo when they are doing this voluntary work?
Good point about whether non-flying staff would work for free. But can anyone confirm if it is true the intructors are?
who tell them to do it.It's a bit different if it is for a worthy cause such as angel flight, but with these TIFs someone somewhere along the line must be making a profit. If not, why are they doing it?
I wonder, are they covered by compo when they are doing this voluntary work?
Good point about whether non-flying staff would work for free. But can anyone confirm if it is true the intructors are?
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SweetnLow
Maybe there was no reply because there is nobody left there ?
The flying instructors are too busy and the ground instructors are non-flyers and non-ppruners.
Or they are just too busy trying to fall on their feet.
The club members also generally do not care what happens to WAAC anyway.
There could be many reasons.....
Maybe there was no reply because there is nobody left there ?
The flying instructors are too busy and the ground instructors are non-flyers and non-ppruners.
Or they are just too busy trying to fall on their feet.
The club members also generally do not care what happens to WAAC anyway.
There could be many reasons.....
YPJT in the years I worked there we were never asked to do free flying. I don't know if that is what happened this time around but I know a few guys that work there, I will see what I can find out.
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From a RACWA instructor
To those that have noted the disclaimer at the bottom of PPRUNE threads :
"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions"
....this is as true on this thread as any.
To clarify the issue regarding instructors pay - for those that are actually interested in facts - RACWA does not under any circumstances ask their pilots to work for free. With regards to Wiley Coyotes provocative previous post that started this innacurate string of comments on pilots working for free at RACWA (which of course I whole heartedly disagree with as well), I'd respectfuly suggest he must have misheard or is simply taking the liberty of exercising, like many others here, the PPRUNE disclaimer above.
Having talked to my collegues at most of the other flying schools at Jandakot, my understanding is that RACWA pay the highest rates of any training organisation on the strip. Casual instructors are paid by VDO time flown (yes TIFS are no different) and for all briefs. To the best of my knowledge we are all happy at RACWA in this regard - so whilst the concern is appreciated guys, you may kindly cease to discuss our plight because we are not the ones complaining
All the best.
"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions"
....this is as true on this thread as any.
To clarify the issue regarding instructors pay - for those that are actually interested in facts - RACWA does not under any circumstances ask their pilots to work for free. With regards to Wiley Coyotes provocative previous post that started this innacurate string of comments on pilots working for free at RACWA (which of course I whole heartedly disagree with as well), I'd respectfuly suggest he must have misheard or is simply taking the liberty of exercising, like many others here, the PPRUNE disclaimer above.
Having talked to my collegues at most of the other flying schools at Jandakot, my understanding is that RACWA pay the highest rates of any training organisation on the strip. Casual instructors are paid by VDO time flown (yes TIFS are no different) and for all briefs. To the best of my knowledge we are all happy at RACWA in this regard - so whilst the concern is appreciated guys, you may kindly cease to discuss our plight because we are not the ones complaining
All the best.
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Gee WC ........ seems I do actually know sht, hows that for horses mouth?? Thanks for the confirmation there m20j
As previously pointed out the pilots and staff at RACWA are doing their best and I wish them all well in their future endevours
t, hows that for horses mouth?? Thanks for the confirmation there m20jAs previously pointed out the pilots and staff at RACWA are doing their best and I wish them all well in their future endevours
Last edited by Aeromuz; 28th Mar 2011 at 23:53.
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Good stuff guys.
It seems we have contradicting news. Guess I too would be embarrassed to say "yes I fly for free coz I love my job and hopefully they wil keep me on".
Each to their own, was just pointing out the view that was given to me by a certian lady instructor at RACWA only 4 weeks ago.
But hell, what do i know. All the best
It seems we have contradicting news. Guess I too would be embarrassed to say "yes I fly for free coz I love my job and hopefully they wil keep me on".
Each to their own, was just pointing out the view that was given to me by a certian lady instructor at RACWA only 4 weeks ago.
But hell, what do i know. All the best
Also 'from the horses mouth'......I just had to ask...
All instructors DO get paid for all TIF's.....period.
Cheers
So wots' next on the agenda..??
Cheers
All instructors DO get paid for all TIF's.....period.
Cheers
So wots' next on the agenda..??
Cheers
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So maybe my horse is a nag !
The way I see it is:
Sccoopon 30min TIF vouchers sold for $69 to the public.
RACWA gets maybe $60 (and thats generous)
Airways and LDG $25
Fuel $29
Leave only $6 for the instructor.
Now I'll bet my nag agianst your donkey that the club is pocketting that $6.
Or......the instructor is getting paid $33 for a 0.5 flight and the club is running at a loss of $27 per flight of which i'm told they have sold hundreds.
Who knows eh ?
The way I see it is:
Sccoopon 30min TIF vouchers sold for $69 to the public.
RACWA gets maybe $60 (and thats generous)
Airways and LDG $25
Fuel $29
Leave only $6 for the instructor.
Now I'll bet my nag agianst your donkey that the club is pocketting that $6.
Or......the instructor is getting paid $33 for a 0.5 flight and the club is running at a loss of $27 per flight of which i'm told they have sold hundreds.
Who knows eh ?
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Just read a couple of your previous posts Wiley and if you think that the new grade 3's are doing tifs for free you are stupider than what sound ( and your posts make you sound pretty stupid) I know all the new grade 3's and I can assure you they all getting paid for every last minute that they are flying.
Go find something better to do than sit behind the computer all night and bitch about how bad the aero club is, if you don't like them, don't go there, simple.
Go find something better to do than sit behind the computer all night and bitch about how bad the aero club is, if you don't like them, don't go there, simple.
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FreshFace - You're taking this so very personally.
Maybe a sore point, but do please peruse the math, and explain just how they do get paid ??
These days I go there coz you get a damm fine cappucino.
Maybe a sore point, but do please peruse the math, and explain just how they do get paid ??
These days I go there coz you get a damm fine cappucino.
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If anybody is taking this personally it's you, there is not a page on here with out you having commented on it, trying to sound concerned about the aero clubs future though really you are just egging on their demise.
Dont ask me how it works for the tifs, i don't work in the accounts department, but all I know is all the instructors are getting paid for all the flying they are doing and the aero club is doing just fine.
Dont ask me how it works for the tifs, i don't work in the accounts department, but all I know is all the instructors are getting paid for all the flying they are doing and the aero club is doing just fine.
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Wiley - the Scoopons could be what the supermarkets and other retailers call a loss leader. It's a tried and true marketing strategy. You get 'em in the door with a really tempting offer and once there, they'll hopefully buy more. There's no doubt that they'd be losing money on them, but if they have the methodology in place, they'd probably get quite a few new starts. Loss leaders are great, but you've got to monitor the results of the strategy or you could go broke.......
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Is it normal that fixed wing instructors get paid for flight time only and not necessarily a salary or am I misinterpreting things?. I havent heard of it in the rotorheads world.
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Scoopons
The way I heard it, punters pay upfront but not every punter will necessarily cash in the voucher! So, 100 pay the $69, scoopon remits the cash, less their cut - club gets $6k. 50 actually take the tif, club ends up $3k cash in the bank ahead! 'Course it's really a potential time bomb but when you're desperate......In strict retail terms that's not a loss leader it's the exact opposite if you intend to stay trading!!
So here's the question -
does the Club get the $$'s for the 'no shows', or does 'scoopon' get to keep that as part of their operating profit..??
Cheers
does the Club get the $$'s for the 'no shows', or does 'scoopon' get to keep that as part of their operating profit..??
Cheers
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Loss leaders are great, only when you're ahead of the bank manager.
So DAMouse, are you suggesting that the club management is banking on a percentage of no-shows to make this a viable proposition ?
How many people that fronted up to the club with gift vouchers, flew their TIF and I wonder how many have converted to students.
Great concept - hope it works out.
So DAMouse, are you suggesting that the club management is banking on a percentage of no-shows to make this a viable proposition ?
How many people that fronted up to the club with gift vouchers, flew their TIF and I wonder how many have converted to students.
Great concept - hope it works out.
Loss leaders are indeed a well know marketing startegy but should really be called "slightly less margin than usual" leaders, I spent some time in supermarket management and there is no way you do a "special" at an actual LOSS. Margins in retailing are much higher than in aviation, there is a lot of room for making stuff look really cheap but still be making a (slightly smaller)profit on it.
Conversion of TIFs into students...well if the voucher is bought as a last minute "surprise" present then probably not. Most students already know they want to fly from a young age and wouldn't suddenly decide to because of a scoopon type thing. But if it gets them to one flying school rather than another when they were going to do it anyway then it's a success.
Conversion of TIFs into students...well if the voucher is bought as a last minute "surprise" present then probably not. Most students already know they want to fly from a young age and wouldn't suddenly decide to because of a scoopon type thing. But if it gets them to one flying school rather than another when they were going to do it anyway then it's a success.