One Dead in Northland plane crash
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kerikeri, New Zealand or Noosa Queensland. Depending on the time of year!
Age: 84
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentleman,
From one who has undergone accident investigation training I would suggest that instead of hurling insults at each other you wait until ALL of the facts are known, not just those reported in the news papers, which we all know seldom get the facts right. Show a little more professionalism !
In the final analysis the cause of an accident is seldom that which has been put forward by so called arm chair experts, or as the media calls them "Sound Bites".
From one who has undergone accident investigation training I would suggest that instead of hurling insults at each other you wait until ALL of the facts are known, not just those reported in the news papers, which we all know seldom get the facts right. Show a little more professionalism !
In the final analysis the cause of an accident is seldom that which has been put forward by so called arm chair experts, or as the media calls them "Sound Bites".
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As one who has also had some training in accident investigation (as an airline safety officer, not as a full-blown accident investigator), I can tell you that you may be correct in the airline environment, but in GA it is virtually always exactly what it looks like.
As I said above, there are very few questions to be answered in this case. There is no CVR/FDR/DFDR, just a very few witnesses (who have already stated for the media what they saw), a debris trail and a bunch of wreckage to check for mechanical malfunctions.
A real mystery...
As I said above, there are very few questions to be answered in this case. There is no CVR/FDR/DFDR, just a very few witnesses (who have already stated for the media what they saw), a debris trail and a bunch of wreckage to check for mechanical malfunctions.
A real mystery...
A more recent article here, which confirms it was definitely a 206 and not a Yak. (although it seemed pretty well confirmed already!)
'We couldn't get Stacey out' - National - NZ Herald News
Not much left...
'We couldn't get Stacey out' - National - NZ Herald News
Not much left...
a classic case of the P factor rearing it's head if the gusting wind caused it to get airborne too early.
Personally I thought it might be a classic case of the Beat Up With Insufficient Speed caused by getting airborne before the frontal lobe was fully engaged... but what would I know.
Best not to speculate eh?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could be a classic case of the P factor rearing it's head if the gusting wind caused it to get airborne too early.
Best not to speculate eh?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Live in Taupiri, Waikato, work in the big smoke, New Zealand
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do we know it was "empty"? 1 POB maybe, but was he carrying dad's digger blade in the back?? We don't even know the aircraft type with any certainty!!
I prefer to wait for the report...you can guarantee that the media haven't played all their "sound bites" and probably didn't and won't do a thorough job investigating all the angles...with all the aviation expertise at their disposal = sweet
all - I mean how can you confuse a YK52 with a C206 - there's not much similar between the two except that they are aircraft made from metal!!
I prefer to wait for the report...you can guarantee that the media haven't played all their "sound bites" and probably didn't and won't do a thorough job investigating all the angles...with all the aviation expertise at their disposal = sweet
all - I mean how can you confuse a YK52 with a C206 - there's not much similar between the two except that they are aircraft made from metal!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't know that much about the 206, but Plane and Pilot did an article about them back in 2005, which seems to reinforce most people's perception of the aircraft - emphasis is mine:
Doesn't sound like there's much you can put in the back that would mess you up that badly...
Stationairs have a deserved reputation as being tough birds capable of lifting pretty much anything that you can close the doors on, at or over gross. I’ve made my share of delivery flights in C-206s.The latest was in a new airplane that I picked up at the Cessna factory in Independence, Kan., and ferried to Bankstown, Sydney, Australia. Much of that flight was at 900 to 1,000 pounds over gross, operating under the special airworthiness certificate that comes with a ferry permit. If the handling was essentially truck-like and nothing happened very fast, at least the airplane hardly knew that it was nearly 30% over normal gross weight. (No, that’s not a suggestion that anyone should run right out and fly their C-206 over gross. It’s merely an example of what’s possible under special circumstances.)
---
Like most of the utility airplanes, however, you can trade fuel pounds for paying pounds pretty much at will without major concern for the CG. Download fuel load to 50 gallons, two hours plus reserve, and cabin payload jumps to 900 pounds, a more reasonable number for a heavy lifter. Working Cessna 206 Stationairs carry things as often as people, and with five seats removed, payload might even approach 1,000 pounds.
---
Like most of the utility airplanes, however, you can trade fuel pounds for paying pounds pretty much at will without major concern for the CG. Download fuel load to 50 gallons, two hours plus reserve, and cabin payload jumps to 900 pounds, a more reasonable number for a heavy lifter. Working Cessna 206 Stationairs carry things as often as people, and with five seats removed, payload might even approach 1,000 pounds.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Shire
Posts: 2,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
P Factor in a big single is the thrust being produced by the down going blades of the propeller being more than the upgoing blades. Combined with the slipstream causing yaw which compounds it futher.
Getting airborne too slow in a big single can cause you to run out of rudder and yaw to the left causing a mishap somewhere towards the end of the runway on the left side.
The same forces caused issues in big single engined warbirds on a go around if full power was applied to quickly.
Getting airborne too slow in a big single can cause you to run out of rudder and yaw to the left causing a mishap somewhere towards the end of the runway on the left side.
The same forces caused issues in big single engined warbirds on a go around if full power was applied to quickly.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What little P factor there is in a 206 is no problem for anyone with any experience on type. I've only flown it a few times, but it isn't an issue unless you are right back near the stall, and even then it's very mild.
It hasn't got a Merlin in the front FFS...
IO-540 - 300hp
Merlin - 1290hp (at takeoff)
It hasn't got a Merlin in the front FFS...
IO-540 - 300hp
Merlin - 1290hp (at takeoff)
From the photo in the Hearld on Sunday, this is not a low energy impact. The wing has been ripped clean off, the strut is also been ripped from the fuse and is still attached to the wing. The leading edge is crushed from the station 100 rib to the wing tip almost back to the rear spar.
I have seen quite a few Cessna takeoff and landing accident aircraft in my time, and I would say that this is a very high energy impact to cause this sort of damage.
And the photo is a C206
I have seen quite a few Cessna takeoff and landing accident aircraft in my time, and I would say that this is a very high energy impact to cause this sort of damage.
And the photo is a C206
Last edited by c100driver; 16th Mar 2010 at 06:16. Reason: Adding type
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 39
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great to know that there are people who love to backstab 
. Either way, I'm waiting on what happened with this accident. It's the report that will prove what I already assumed has happened.
Hows is the accommodation at beaches justapplhere ?
. Either way, I'm waiting on what happened with this accident. It's the report that will prove what I already assumed has happened. Hows is the accommodation at beaches justapplhere ?
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Shire
Posts: 2,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilotboy, no-one is backstabbing you, sometimes you've got to stop that mouth of yours flapping in the breeze.
Remember in aviation there is always someone who knows way more than you and sometimes they will not even say a thing.
I could make a crack about a P51 Mustang now, but i'll refrain
Remember in aviation there is always someone who knows way more than you and sometimes they will not even say a thing.
I could make a crack about a P51 Mustang now, but i'll refrain
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 39
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes j3 much to your disgust, I can read. And like I said before, I would just like to know what happened. That's all
GG, remember it was a Spitty :P. And I have never denied there are more people who know a ****load more than me. I, like alot of other people, have had to learn to take "constructive criticism"
Either way, I was ALWAYS waiting on the report. Nothing ever changed my stance on it. Just wanted to stir up some individual thought. We are all human and as such, we all have the right to an opinion. I was just stating mine
GG, remember it was a Spitty :P. And I have never denied there are more people who know a ****load more than me. I, like alot of other people, have had to learn to take "constructive criticism"
Either way, I was ALWAYS waiting on the report. Nothing ever changed my stance on it. Just wanted to stir up some individual thought. We are all human and as such, we all have the right to an opinion. I was just stating mine