Spotters to Spot Trouble?
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
In return, as a reward, members may be offered free airside bus tours, simulator flights or airside access to get up close to those planes you want to photograph. Anything is possible, I'm not ruling anything in or out at the moment."
Just like anything in life, you can view this as a problem or opportunity. Its quite simple really..if the authorities are able to take a pragmatic approach (thats another thread entirely of course!) to this..then the expectation of remuneration, or even the perception of it can be set at a satisfactory level.
Guest
Posts: n/a
What threat would spotters be looking for exactly? IMO spotters are as suspicious as things get, and generally don't pose a risk at all (only a occasional nuisance such as VH-XXX's example).
When it comes down to it, spotters should be getting reported to the terrorism hotline...but surely if someone cut a hole in the cyclone fencing and ran towards a terminal any layman (even a spotter) would call 000.
When it comes down to it, spotters should be getting reported to the terrorism hotline...but surely if someone cut a hole in the cyclone fencing and ran towards a terminal any layman (even a spotter) would call 000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NSW
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do like how the first guy to reply on the Sydney airport message board had such a middle eastern sounding name 'Sarmad Al-Koziae' . That is being stereotypical and sarcastic ......something not used on this board much 
cficare I am with you ....very BS sounding
cficare I am with you ....very BS sounding
Personally, I think it's a great idea if implimented properly.
These guys/gals happen to be viewing aircraft from outside the airfield boundary, and they enjoy being there. Many of them are intelligent and pleasant people. Some of them aren't. I know a few pilots that fit into the "aren't" category as well.
If they spot something out of the ordinary, then they call it in. No big deal if it's a false alarm. I'm sure if they pulled a joke then they would be made aware of their mistake, and suitably briefed or punished.
As for letting them airside as a reward, then that's just fine by me. It's not like they'd be allowed to roam at will.
These guys/gals happen to be viewing aircraft from outside the airfield boundary, and they enjoy being there. Many of them are intelligent and pleasant people. Some of them aren't. I know a few pilots that fit into the "aren't" category as well.
If they spot something out of the ordinary, then they call it in. No big deal if it's a false alarm. I'm sure if they pulled a joke then they would be made aware of their mistake, and suitably briefed or punished.
As for letting them airside as a reward, then that's just fine by me. It's not like they'd be allowed to roam at will.
Hmmmmm, this is what I can see.
Walk on to ramp from ops room carrying usual junk, headphones, bag, etc..
Spotter report: Unidentified person with ASIC not visible is airside with suspicious packages.
Unlock aircraft, open door, dump junk in aircraft. Check oil, fuel. Walk back to Ops to ring for fuel, collect oil and rag plus canopy cleaner.
Spotter report: Aircraft unsecured on ramp.
Add oil, clean canopy, untie aircraft, take oil and cleaner back to ops, fuel truck arrives.
Spotter report: Unsecured aircraft on ramp being fuelled 100mm too close to another aircraft.
and so it will continue.
..........
Give these buggers any form of official status and watch them develop an encyclopaedic knowledge of the regulations. They will report your most minor apparent infraction.
Walk on to ramp from ops room carrying usual junk, headphones, bag, etc..
Spotter report: Unidentified person with ASIC not visible is airside with suspicious packages.
Unlock aircraft, open door, dump junk in aircraft. Check oil, fuel. Walk back to Ops to ring for fuel, collect oil and rag plus canopy cleaner.
Spotter report: Aircraft unsecured on ramp.
Add oil, clean canopy, untie aircraft, take oil and cleaner back to ops, fuel truck arrives.
Spotter report: Unsecured aircraft on ramp being fuelled 100mm too close to another aircraft.
and so it will continue.
..........
Give these buggers any form of official status and watch them develop an encyclopaedic knowledge of the regulations. They will report your most minor apparent infraction.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great! fertile imaginations coupled with little or no expertise in aviation or associated security but just enough knowledge to become a damn nuisance.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If they spot something out of the ordinary, then they call it in. No big deal if it's a false alarm.
Of course, it'll end up being the usual case of the guy with the middle eastern appearance getting "reported", while the western guy with 2 kids in the car is, and never will be, given a second look by the general public.
And it IS a big deal if it's a false alarm. It's a lesser version of calling 000 when nothing's actually wrong. People have to respond in some way, and get pulled away from other more important tasks to do it. In this case, the AFP. When it's a passive system - i.e. encouraging any member of the public to report suspicious persons - it's fine. When you lead people to believe they're pseudo-police, and then actually offer rewards for doing it - you multiply the inbound garbage information.
And this has nothing to do with spotters being "nice people", which has been mentioned a few times. I'll say it again, encouraging the reporting of suspicious behaviour is a good thing - but this is a ridiculous way of supposedly increasing the flow of good information - no doubt another AFP "initiative" - they're excellent at creating new illusions of security without actually spending any money.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
100% agreed on that Zapp, except that IMHO it's a whole of government problem including the OTS and the border agencies, not just the AFP.
Some, sure. Others are a PITA already. My airport has several regulars with scanners who phone Airservices to complain whenever the radio traffic deviates from the procedures, even if it's really pedantic stuff. They're a bit like the ancient ex-students that used to call my school and complain about students not wearing their badges correctly. Same symptoms, same disease: not enough to do with their time and a manic desire to mind everyone else's business! 
People who see anything dodgy should be calling 000 or 131AFP. Surely it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. No need for a 'Mole Patrol' (ROFLMAO)!
BTW, at the risk of being boring, are there any verifiable sources that back up this story?
spotters being "nice people"
People who see anything dodgy should be calling 000 or 131AFP. Surely it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. No need for a 'Mole Patrol' (ROFLMAO)!
BTW, at the risk of being boring, are there any verifiable sources that back up this story?
It's not a new idea, or unique to Australia. From 2004:
BBC NEWS | UK | England | London | Plane-spotters join terror fight
BBC NEWS | UK | England | London | Plane-spotters join terror fight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: shivering in the cold dark shadow of my own magnificence.
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is brilliant
Not only have the AFP been able to compile a complete dossier on these suspicious fence sitting muppets, but the said muppets volunteered their own personal info. 
All because of the vague hint of offering status & power.
It's the oldest psych trick in the book. I just cant believe that people still fall for it.
All because of the vague hint of offering status & power.
It's the oldest psych trick in the book. I just cant believe that people still fall for it.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 62
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The guy (left) is obviously an imposter and potential security threat (or undercover AFP , should have done his homework better) ... his lens doesn't look like it belongs in an observatory.
yep , look like pretty normal folks to me
-
Last edited by aseanaero; 9th Oct 2009 at 01:22.
..............voyeurism...........we all do it in one form or another
Some like to do it in the privacy of their own homes, others stand there in all sorts of WX & watch planes.............sad I know. Although in their defence I too used to watch planes as a snotty nosed kid fly overhead atop dads old wood shed as planes flew in & out of EN about a 100 yrs ago! Hence I am here now amongst you lot!
What surounds most security controlled airports here in OZ? A soft wred chain-mess linked fence, & often hidden behind trees etc, talk about out all having yr guns where people can see them only!!!!
Locks are for honest theives!
'aseanaero' loved the pix of the pix takers We really do have a pre-occupation with size don't we?
Wmk2
Some like to do it in the privacy of their own homes, others stand there in all sorts of WX & watch planes.............sad I know. Although in their defence I too used to watch planes as a snotty nosed kid fly overhead atop dads old wood shed as planes flew in & out of EN about a 100 yrs ago! Hence I am here now amongst you lot!
What surounds most security controlled airports here in OZ? A soft wred chain-mess linked fence, & often hidden behind trees etc, talk about out all having yr guns where people can see them only!!!!
Locks are for honest theives!'aseanaero' loved the pix of the pix takers
We really do have a pre-occupation with size don't we?Wmk2
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Although in their defence I too used to watch planes as a snotty nosed kid fly overhead atop dads old wood shed as planes flew in & out of EN about a 100 yrs ago! Hence I am here now amongst you lot!