Private Strip - Any Hassles with Councils?
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Private Strip - Any Hassles with Councils?
Hi
Anyone have experience setting up a private strip and THEN having issues with a local council trying to have it approved under local planning schemes?
Or having neighbours complain about it?
Thinking of making my own without any approvals.
It will comply with the dimensions of an ALA etc. so am fairly certain I am covered with the CAO's and my insurance etc. It will be a better strip than some I been into !
It's only councils that concern me.
Anyone have experience setting up a private strip and THEN having issues with a local council trying to have it approved under local planning schemes?
Or having neighbours complain about it?
Thinking of making my own without any approvals.
It will comply with the dimensions of an ALA etc. so am fairly certain I am covered with the CAO's and my insurance etc. It will be a better strip than some I been into !
It's only councils that concern me.
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rioncentu,
Given your last sentence, you've probably covered it. While I haven't been down this path, and can't comment on difficulties with councils, I do know of an instance where someone embarked on a similar project without considering the class of airspace overhead the farm.
Once again, your last sentence seems to imply that you've got your ducks in a line but, as I said, I've seen it happen.
Good luck in your engagements with the local bureaucracy.
Given your last sentence, you've probably covered it. While I haven't been down this path, and can't comment on difficulties with councils, I do know of an instance where someone embarked on a similar project without considering the class of airspace overhead the farm.
Once again, your last sentence seems to imply that you've got your ducks in a line but, as I said, I've seen it happen.
Good luck in your engagements with the local bureaucracy.
The council will likely be concerned with noise and evironmental issues. They are great at inventing work to justify their own existence.
My Wife is a commercial property Lawyer and has to deal with dozens of councils. She informs me that this could be a bit of a nightmare-depending on which council you are dealing with.
My Wife is a commercial property Lawyer and has to deal with dozens of councils. She informs me that this could be a bit of a nightmare-depending on which council you are dealing with.
You might save yourself a load of grief by firstly discussing it, individually, with all your neighbours - particularly those under your proposed approaches. People are less likely to say NO when by themselves in a friendly meeting. Whatever you do - avoid having several neighbours together at a meeting. The 'narks' have a capacity to sway the neutral citizens over to thinking it's going to be the 3rd runway for Sydney
If you decide to just 'do it', then you run the risk of slighting the neutral people who may have supported you if as above.
Be sure to have some noise level numbers for the particular aircraft you plan to use. That way, you can quickly quote the low noise footprint created, and by using a good Google shot, (or an aerial pic), you can show that, with your a/c, and the distance they are away from the flightpath, that no nuisance has been created.
Careful thought to your situation might also allow you to create a right-hand or curved approach or departure path which may satisfy everyone.
happy days,
If you decide to just 'do it', then you run the risk of slighting the neutral people who may have supported you if as above.
Be sure to have some noise level numbers for the particular aircraft you plan to use. That way, you can quickly quote the low noise footprint created, and by using a good Google shot, (or an aerial pic), you can show that, with your a/c, and the distance they are away from the flightpath, that no nuisance has been created.
Careful thought to your situation might also allow you to create a right-hand or curved approach or departure path which may satisfy everyone.
happy days,
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We operate daily into a private airstrip for a private residence ferrying him to work each day in a B58.
We spoke to the councils and they asked for a northernly t/o to aviod any distribuance to a neighbouring suburb.
While we comply they understand its not always possible for a northern t/o and hence sometimes a southernly t/o is required.
Speak to the council, better be on their side than be their enemy... *we even picked up a nice couple of charters from them
*
We spoke to the councils and they asked for a northernly t/o to aviod any distribuance to a neighbouring suburb.
While we comply they understand its not always possible for a northern t/o and hence sometimes a southernly t/o is required.
Speak to the council, better be on their side than be their enemy... *we even picked up a nice couple of charters from them
*
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In a thread on Pprune years ago someone alluded to the fact that councils have no authority over airstrips whatsoever. I'll see whether I can find it and post the link. 
And here it is:
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...airstrips.html
And here it is:
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...airstrips.html
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Further thoughts:
Don't construct an airstrip - construct a long wide straight track to the implement shed. You will more than likely require an approval for this.
Don't construct a hangar - construct an implement shed that just happens to accommodate your aircraft.
Survey where the "track" might go so that it will have a minimum impact on adjacent properties, but as poteroo mentioned, under no circumstances have a group discussion - it only takes one dissenter to sway the rest. If there is any doubt, the neighbours will be negative to your proposal/s no matter how considerate your plan is or how carefully you try and present it.
Keep us all posted on your progress.
Don't construct an airstrip - construct a long wide straight track to the implement shed. You will more than likely require an approval for this.
Don't construct a hangar - construct an implement shed that just happens to accommodate your aircraft.
Survey where the "track" might go so that it will have a minimum impact on adjacent properties, but as poteroo mentioned, under no circumstances have a group discussion - it only takes one dissenter to sway the rest. If there is any doubt, the neighbours will be negative to your proposal/s no matter how considerate your plan is or how carefully you try and present it.
Keep us all posted on your progress.
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Best suggestion is to get your neighbours excited about it, when they realise its not a safety issue, you have all the ducks in a row, and they might get a little scenic one day.
One fellow I know has a strip at home....VERY small...and lots of big trees, so he is the only one to use it, and about 10 times a year, (uses a hangar at YCAB also). He did the befriend the neigbour thing, always offers to cut down trees for them too....
and they all come out to watch.....they think its pretty cool!
J
One fellow I know has a strip at home....VERY small...and lots of big trees, so he is the only one to use it, and about 10 times a year, (uses a hangar at YCAB also). He did the befriend the neigbour thing, always offers to cut down trees for them too....
and they all come out to watch.....they think its pretty cool!J
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One fellow I know has a strip at home....VERY small...and lots of big trees, so he is the only one to use it, and about 10 times a year, (uses a hangar at YCAB also). He did the befriend the neigbour thing, always offers to cut down trees for them too....
and they all come out to watch.....they think its pretty cool!
and they all come out to watch.....they think its pretty cool!
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Smart ar$e Pyro.......... no that is the VERY short strip with an even shorter cross strip
of about 60m.
The one I am reffering to is a bit longer but a whole heap harder to get into
of about 60m.The one I am reffering to is a bit longer but a whole heap harder to get into
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Where do you land? Sure theoretically you should be able to pull up in less than the TOR but there's not much room for extra energy there. Love it.
FRQ CB
FRQ CB
Hey Dude!
Forget about the council. First invite all your neighbours for a big piss up, kill a sheep, put it on the barbie, show them your pilots wings, impress the hell out of their wives and daughters, promise them joyflights, get them drunk and if you want to go all the way get them to sign a weaver of your strip in your favour so the council can not make any money out of you regardless.Job done.
Seriously. Talk to your neighbours before approching your council.
Good luck and safe flying!
Forget about the council. First invite all your neighbours for a big piss up, kill a sheep, put it on the barbie, show them your pilots wings, impress the hell out of their wives and daughters, promise them joyflights, get them drunk and if you want to go all the way get them to sign a weaver of your strip in your favour so the council can not make any money out of you regardless.Job done.
Seriously. Talk to your neighbours before approching your council.
Good luck and safe flying!
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If you have even a single neighbour who doesn't like aircraft, or is even sligtly offside, you will have troubles. Council will be standing next to you within an hour of work commencing on your airstrip preparation.
When we built ours, council was involved, we got approval with conditions on daylight operations only, and on the number of movements we can have per year.
I don't think they are counting movements now though, or if they ever did.
We have been operating from the strip for just over 6 years and have had no ongoing problems with the council.
When we built ours, council was involved, we got approval with conditions on daylight operations only, and on the number of movements we can have per year.
I don't think they are counting movements now though, or if they ever did.
We have been operating from the strip for just over 6 years and have had no ongoing problems with the council.
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If it's for yourself to fly in and out of, usually no dramas for the once a day type trips and councils are normally happy enough with this even with a few complaints.
Problems arise once you let others use your strip. It's just a jealousy thing that when the neighbours see you having fun in your $100k toy they get upset. Mates and other pilots often do the wrong thing when visiting your property, such as low level work, beatups etc. I would strongly discourage having anyone else fly in for these and other reasons, unless it's a requirement.
I know of a couple of strips. One been around for a couple of years, had a complaint and the council restricted it to one aircraft only after that.
The other has had several complaints from a particular neighbour with horses (the strip has been there for over 20 years!). Ironically the neighbour with the horses has just purchased an R44 so they will know what noise is about shortly!
Problems arise once you let others use your strip. It's just a jealousy thing that when the neighbours see you having fun in your $100k toy they get upset. Mates and other pilots often do the wrong thing when visiting your property, such as low level work, beatups etc. I would strongly discourage having anyone else fly in for these and other reasons, unless it's a requirement.
I know of a couple of strips. One been around for a couple of years, had a complaint and the council restricted it to one aircraft only after that.
The other has had several complaints from a particular neighbour with horses (the strip has been there for over 20 years!). Ironically the neighbour with the horses has just purchased an R44 so they will know what noise is about shortly!
I'm vitally interested in this issue as well. As long as council approves your "machinery shed" I can't see any way they can legally object, at least in Victoria,
As for the neighbours, I guess if you already have your property and know your neighbours, you have a better chance of gaining their approval. At the country place I had, we had an @sshole living across the river who would automatically object to anything and everything. If you have one of those, there is not much you can do except tell them where to go.
But be warned, RVAC has one Warrior with a 12 gauge slug mark in its engine cowl.
As for the neighbours, I guess if you already have your property and know your neighbours, you have a better chance of gaining their approval. At the country place I had, we had an @sshole living across the river who would automatically object to anything and everything. If you have one of those, there is not much you can do except tell them where to go.
But be warned, RVAC has one Warrior with a 12 gauge slug mark in its engine cowl.
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I operated out of a private airfield many, many years ago in Victoria when operating scenic flights. After a period of time I wanted to do some improvements, whilst the council was prepared to accept the airfield had existing use rights for what it was, they did require a planning permit before they would let me commence any works.
In short, two neighbours objected, and one took me to the AAT. It took hundreds of hours of work to prepare the case. The horse issue was easy to solve - a number of horse trainers (as in racehorses) lived right next to a nearby airport and they wrote letters of support. I sent surveys to all nearby property owners, and apart from the two objectors, the rest that responded said that they had no issues. I used the Australian Standard for Aircraft noise (which basically said no issues), and borrowed a noise meter from a local mine and recorded noise levels generated on typical movements. Fortunately the council was supportive - it would have been a lot harder if I'd had to battle them.
The biggest tip out of my experience is that if you end up with objectors is to get as many letters of support as you can - quite a number of the immediate neighbours would have been quite happy to write them for me. Having operated there for a number of years was a big plus. Also have a couple of conditions in the back of your mind that wouldn't affect your plans if they were imposed.
In the end the planning permit was issued. The two conditions that were imposed was the surface had to remain natural (sealing it wasn't even a consideration), and I couldn't sell fuel to transiting aircraft (my idea because I didn't want to anyway).
I think Ovation is on the right track - if you're zoned rural I'd be putting a laneway through the property (good environmental practice), that conincidently happens to be in the best place to take off and land your aircraft. I'd be putting up the machinery shed up first though, and I'd do my best to become a well liked neighbour.
In short, two neighbours objected, and one took me to the AAT. It took hundreds of hours of work to prepare the case. The horse issue was easy to solve - a number of horse trainers (as in racehorses) lived right next to a nearby airport and they wrote letters of support. I sent surveys to all nearby property owners, and apart from the two objectors, the rest that responded said that they had no issues. I used the Australian Standard for Aircraft noise (which basically said no issues), and borrowed a noise meter from a local mine and recorded noise levels generated on typical movements. Fortunately the council was supportive - it would have been a lot harder if I'd had to battle them.
The biggest tip out of my experience is that if you end up with objectors is to get as many letters of support as you can - quite a number of the immediate neighbours would have been quite happy to write them for me. Having operated there for a number of years was a big plus. Also have a couple of conditions in the back of your mind that wouldn't affect your plans if they were imposed.
In the end the planning permit was issued. The two conditions that were imposed was the surface had to remain natural (sealing it wasn't even a consideration), and I couldn't sell fuel to transiting aircraft (my idea because I didn't want to anyway).
I think Ovation is on the right track - if you're zoned rural I'd be putting a laneway through the property (good environmental practice), that conincidently happens to be in the best place to take off and land your aircraft. I'd be putting up the machinery shed up first though, and I'd do my best to become a well liked neighbour.
Private airstrips
Private airstrips are reasonably easy to get going in the country but close to major cities there can be problems. The mayor of Hornsby shire when an r22 was used in his area went apolyptic and tried to get the poor bloke shut down. I think the green eyed monster was involved there.
I have a strip near to Sydney used mostly be vintage aeroplanes and have a constant fear that someone like him would , as a political stunt, kick up a fuss even though the strip is used irregularly by the emergency services.
Is there any traction in thinking of setting up a loose association of those with strips to share experiances and expensivly bought legal opinions so that we can help each other or are we all such alpha males and females that we need not each other.?
I have a strip near to Sydney used mostly be vintage aeroplanes and have a constant fear that someone like him would , as a political stunt, kick up a fuss even though the strip is used irregularly by the emergency services.
Is there any traction in thinking of setting up a loose association of those with strips to share experiances and expensivly bought legal opinions so that we can help each other or are we all such alpha males and females that we need not each other.?