NAIPS for iPhone
Thread Starter
Hey all - thanks for the strong feedback, I was also looking for something like this and gave up so I just wrote one!
First up I just have to point out that this isn't commercial (which you have probably guessed!). If I make a few hundred bucks after 6 months then its going straight to the tap in mitchell st, darwin [or on shoes for the wife who has to put up with me on the computer]. I was thinking of putting it at a $3 price point (apple take a 30% cut for distribution etc).
Anyway - sorry for the couple of beta testers I sent it to last night...I compiled it using the wrong apple certificates last night so it wont work. I'll add everybody who replied to me today (10th jun 09) and do it tonight, wife permitting. Apple make this the worlds hardest way to distribute software from my end with all their DRM, but once its working it should be simple from your end (just drag the app folder and the certificate into the itunes window into applications and it will sync over). Be patient !
As for other questions:WX radar with GPS position - Awesome idea...that might be a separate app I'll look at doing later. Apple have just opened up their maps API making this kind of stuff quite a lot easier. ALTHOUGH it may indeed not work airborne as the gps in the iphone is *assisted* gps meaning it needs a phone tower to localise its position and downloads the alminac through the cell tower which it uses to lock onto the nearest sattelites. End result is a very quick position lock on the ground, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a 4 channel receiver that didn't work if you flew from A to B a long way apart. [somebody might be able to confirm this next time they are on a plane that allows cell phones, whether the maps app tracks your position].
ERSA/approach plates etc. - I thought of doing this also...its definitely on the maybe list for later [after flight planning is done]. Maybe somebody could write a separate app for this?
Boeing style nav display with blah - I have no idea what your talking about!
Blackberry - No. Completely different software platform, and I heavily rely on using the iPhone sdk to write the software so its not cross-platform at all. Translation: iPhone only, forever.
iPod Touch - interesting. Technically it should work on a touch with a wifi connection, but I have no idea how to hook one up to the internet like you were saying.
Using winds for planning etc. - this would be a big task and detract from the core role of the program. I feel my (limited) time would be better spent writing additional naips features in for things like ERSA, submitting [partially filled out] flight plans etc. There is an app called pilotwiz that I use for things like tas conversions and its really good (although as somebody pointed out, its more of a digital whiz wheel). There are a few others that do things like headings/tracks from winds. It is also really hard to parse airservices data to pick things like individual winds out. That kind of thing is better left to a human brain/eye combination to error check and I would start to get into legal grey territory regarding my obligations to provide accurate data.
disclaimer - downloading weather whilst flying may be bad for your health, especially if your company policy disallows mobiles in the cockpit.
First up I just have to point out that this isn't commercial (which you have probably guessed!). If I make a few hundred bucks after 6 months then its going straight to the tap in mitchell st, darwin [or on shoes for the wife who has to put up with me on the computer]. I was thinking of putting it at a $3 price point (apple take a 30% cut for distribution etc).
Anyway - sorry for the couple of beta testers I sent it to last night...I compiled it using the wrong apple certificates last night so it wont work. I'll add everybody who replied to me today (10th jun 09) and do it tonight, wife permitting. Apple make this the worlds hardest way to distribute software from my end with all their DRM, but once its working it should be simple from your end (just drag the app folder and the certificate into the itunes window into applications and it will sync over). Be patient !
As for other questions:WX radar with GPS position - Awesome idea...that might be a separate app I'll look at doing later. Apple have just opened up their maps API making this kind of stuff quite a lot easier. ALTHOUGH it may indeed not work airborne as the gps in the iphone is *assisted* gps meaning it needs a phone tower to localise its position and downloads the alminac through the cell tower which it uses to lock onto the nearest sattelites. End result is a very quick position lock on the ground, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a 4 channel receiver that didn't work if you flew from A to B a long way apart. [somebody might be able to confirm this next time they are on a plane that allows cell phones, whether the maps app tracks your position].
ERSA/approach plates etc. - I thought of doing this also...its definitely on the maybe list for later [after flight planning is done]. Maybe somebody could write a separate app for this?
Boeing style nav display with blah - I have no idea what your talking about!
Blackberry - No. Completely different software platform, and I heavily rely on using the iPhone sdk to write the software so its not cross-platform at all. Translation: iPhone only, forever.
iPod Touch - interesting. Technically it should work on a touch with a wifi connection, but I have no idea how to hook one up to the internet like you were saying.
Using winds for planning etc. - this would be a big task and detract from the core role of the program. I feel my (limited) time would be better spent writing additional naips features in for things like ERSA, submitting [partially filled out] flight plans etc. There is an app called pilotwiz that I use for things like tas conversions and its really good (although as somebody pointed out, its more of a digital whiz wheel). There are a few others that do things like headings/tracks from winds. It is also really hard to parse airservices data to pick things like individual winds out. That kind of thing is better left to a human brain/eye combination to error check and I would start to get into legal grey territory regarding my obligations to provide accurate data.
disclaimer - downloading weather whilst flying may be bad for your health, especially if your company policy disallows mobiles in the cockpit.
Thread Starter
Also for those who are worried that I'm not getting your email addresses because it says "invalid hash", its fine - they get sent to my email good readable!
Also I'm sure you can claim the $3 on tax if you remembered
I doubt it would be out before end of financial year anyway
Also I'm sure you can claim the $3 on tax if you remembered
I doubt it would be out before end of financial year anyway
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It sounds like a great app - have PM'd you. In the Aeroweather app I have seen the utility decode the raw info for the user as well - eg raw info:
YSSY 092259Z 1000/1106 25025G35KT
CAVOK
FM101200 23020G30KT CAVOK
FM101800 22015G25KT CAVOK
FM110000 21020G30KT CAVOK
renders as:
issued at 08:59 LT (10.)
Forecast from 10:00 to 16:00 (11.):
250 (WSW) at 25 knots
gusting to 35 knots
Ceiling and Visibility OK
From 22:00 (10.):
230 (SW) at 20 knots
gusting to 30 knots
Ceiling and visibility OK
From 04:00 (11.):
220 (SW) at 15 knots
gusting to 15 knots
Ceiling and visibility OK
etc etc, where the user can toggle between the raw and decoded info. Handy for low time pilots wanting to check they have read and decoded NAIPS correctly. Maybe an idea for next version/later versions or you may never get the app to the Appstore....
Great idea, thanks for your effort in getting this to beta stage, hope it rewards you by paying for itself and some cold ones.
YSSY 092259Z 1000/1106 25025G35KT
CAVOK
FM101200 23020G30KT CAVOK
FM101800 22015G25KT CAVOK
FM110000 21020G30KT CAVOK
renders as:
issued at 08:59 LT (10.)
Forecast from 10:00 to 16:00 (11.):
250 (WSW) at 25 knots
gusting to 35 knots
Ceiling and Visibility OK
From 22:00 (10.):
230 (SW) at 20 knots
gusting to 30 knots
Ceiling and visibility OK
From 04:00 (11.):
220 (SW) at 15 knots
gusting to 15 knots
Ceiling and visibility OK
etc etc, where the user can toggle between the raw and decoded info. Handy for low time pilots wanting to check they have read and decoded NAIPS correctly. Maybe an idea for next version/later versions or you may never get the app to the Appstore....
Great idea, thanks for your effort in getting this to beta stage, hope it rewards you by paying for itself and some cold ones.
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haha, I thought it had been compiled wrong. Looking forward to giving it another shot tonight!
To add some clarification towards programs such as Aeroweather, and E6B programs accessing weather, all those programs download their weather from NOAA (United States) so only includes international airports such as YMML, YSSY, YBBN etc that send METAR and TAF over to NOAA.
Glad you said it would be a non-commercial app, because of AirServices' copyright on NAIPS data....
As for introducing wind correction data, and E6B functions into the program....forget it! There's heaps of programs out there already that can do this, focus on specialising on giving us all the NAIPS functions we need. And as for decoding raw data....I'm a student, I have no problems understanding what's being said (apart from complex SIGMETS). If anything, forget about decoding TAF's and METARS and decode area forecasts instead. I'm sick of pulling out my PCA to work out where everything is located.
To add some clarification towards programs such as Aeroweather, and E6B programs accessing weather, all those programs download their weather from NOAA (United States) so only includes international airports such as YMML, YSSY, YBBN etc that send METAR and TAF over to NOAA.
Glad you said it would be a non-commercial app, because of AirServices' copyright on NAIPS data....
As for introducing wind correction data, and E6B functions into the program....forget it! There's heaps of programs out there already that can do this, focus on specialising on giving us all the NAIPS functions we need. And as for decoding raw data....I'm a student, I have no problems understanding what's being said (apart from complex SIGMETS). If anything, forget about decoding TAF's and METARS and decode area forecasts instead. I'm sick of pulling out my PCA to work out where everything is located.
I will have to get an iPhone next time! I got a Palm Treo Pro because my electronic logbook has a version for Windows Mobile but at the time it didn't have one for iPhone. Now they've released a version for iPhone AND your NAIPS app sounds great.
$3 is ridiculously cheap, I'd think nothing of paying $10-$15 for something like that.
$3 is ridiculously cheap, I'd think nothing of paying $10-$15 for something like that.
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im with Aerocat on this one, after looking at the price of other apps, i would definitely put this in the $10 - $15 range. Would be more than happy to pay that price if it saves time from logging on to Naips through my PC.
Thread Starter
$3 is ridiculously cheap, I'd think nothing of paying $10-$15 for something like that.
I'm still unsure about what airservices policy is on this kind of thing in a commercial nature. If anybody has any knowledge on copyright law (when you login to naips, there is a paragraph that comes up saying you can't redistribute without their written permission, as excepted by copyright law) let me know what you think! I'm basically waiting for them to get back to me [it has been about 2 months now] before I put it on the app store. I have heard from other sources that it takes aaaages and they like money, but we'll see. I tried to argue that this will reduce airservices burden on avfax and telephone briefings in remote areas because people will be able to do it and SAVE it on their phones.
Careful - dont ruin it for everybody else! Nah the balance is between making it non-commercial, and selling something that took ages to make for less than a cup of coffee, as somebody put it.
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Flight planning software (such as Champagne??) access NAIPS (doesn't it?) so it's obviously commercially viable.
The PC version of NAIPS is quite primitive..... surely AirServices should look towards either outsourcing the production of programs such as this, OR allowing commercial programs to use NAIPS data and run a "AirServices Approved" program, so that as pilots we 100% know that the data is verified and not cached etc.
The PC version of NAIPS is quite primitive..... surely AirServices should look towards either outsourcing the production of programs such as this, OR allowing commercial programs to use NAIPS data and run a "AirServices Approved" program, so that as pilots we 100% know that the data is verified and not cached etc.
Thread Starter
The PC version of NAIPS is quite primitive..... surely AirServices should look towards either outsourcing the production of programs such as this, OR allowing commercial programs to use NAIPS data and run a "AirServices Approved" program, so that as pilots we 100% know that the data is verified and not cached etc.
Thread Starter
Okay a bit of stuff around but I think I have finally got it working. I've sent it to the first 3 guys who replied to me to check its fully working, then I'll send it out to everybody else who has given me their UDID tomorrow night. Keep them coming, I'll give it to as many people as I can before the night of 12Jun09.
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It is exactly what I was thinking of yesterday as I was going through the App Store looking at what's out there.
I am no lawyer, but re Airservices and their stupid copyright-there is another thread on this- you are not reselling their data. You are simply providing a customised web browser to the user, in a sense. As you are not making a profit from their data, no problem. All their data for NAIPS is publicly available anyway.
$5 is the right price.
Features-nearest aerodromes in case of emergency, ERSA listing as before and the rest is covered with other apps, also costing around $5.
BTW, this is enough to make most pilots get an iPhone. And some of the apps already out there will blow your mind-instant HUD in your 172 a'la F111, full tracking, DG, VOR, ADF, AH displays a'la Garmin etc,
I will jump on board when my N95 stops working (should be in about two or three weeks) and the new iPhone S arrives.
sc
I am no lawyer, but re Airservices and their stupid copyright-there is another thread on this- you are not reselling their data. You are simply providing a customised web browser to the user, in a sense. As you are not making a profit from their data, no problem. All their data for NAIPS is publicly available anyway.
$5 is the right price.
Features-nearest aerodromes in case of emergency, ERSA listing as before and the rest is covered with other apps, also costing around $5.
BTW, this is enough to make most pilots get an iPhone. And some of the apps already out there will blow your mind-instant HUD in your 172 a'la F111, full tracking, DG, VOR, ADF, AH displays a'la Garmin etc,
I will jump on board when my N95 stops working (should be in about two or three weeks) and the new iPhone S arrives.
sc
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Great idea, I use aeroweather on my iphone.. and I like the fact that it decodes the metars and tafs, makes it easy to look at at a glance. It works for me as I fly from YSCB, but a naips application would be much better.
It's a pity airservices don't publish a web services (soap), that would negate the need to strip all the html bumpf away. Might be worth contacting them and suggesting it.
I'm a software developer myself and understand how long it takes to develop something like this, don't shortchange yourself, put a fair price on it. I've paid $12+ for less usefull iphone software.
It's a pity airservices don't publish a web services (soap), that would negate the need to strip all the html bumpf away. Might be worth contacting them and suggesting it.
I'm a software developer myself and understand how long it takes to develop something like this, don't shortchange yourself, put a fair price on it. I've paid $12+ for less usefull iphone software.
Thread Starter
Yeah I doubt airservices would cooperate with a text-only type feed ! As a government organisation, I would have thought that they would be mandated to provide high quality aviation data and services to all australian/international pilots, and as a corollary, be as open and as supportive of this kind of thing as possible since it is extending their services without costing them a cent. It doesn't make very much sense. Oh well ! I did read a bit of that thread about their new copyright policy being fundamentally broken and causing all kinds of problems like the yanks blocking access to their DAFIF (the worlds best free source of EVERY waypoint, navaid, etc etc in the world) because of Australia's copyright policy. I found this out when trying to import a database of all australian airports into my database. I had to use a dafif from a few years ago (there is a good site on the net where you can get all the data you need in xml format - kudos to that guy).
Anyway sorry I can't get it out tonight as I've been at work for 14 hrs and am dead tired, so I'll see if I can get it out friday night to everybody. I've been saving the UDID's everybody has sent me (about 30 so far) so dont stress if I haven't replied.
As a side note, does anybody know what the note about the naips upgrade is all about on airservices site after you login? It seems they are upgrading their website this weekend some time. I hope they haven't changed everything and made my app completely unusable.
As a reminder to everybody who has PM'd me, make sure you give me your UDID number (you get from iTunes when you click on your iPhones serial number), not other numbers. The UDID is a 40 digit alpha-numeric string. Also give me your email address and dont worry if it says "hash unreadable"...I can still read it.
Anyway sorry I can't get it out tonight as I've been at work for 14 hrs and am dead tired, so I'll see if I can get it out friday night to everybody. I've been saving the UDID's everybody has sent me (about 30 so far) so dont stress if I haven't replied.
As a side note, does anybody know what the note about the naips upgrade is all about on airservices site after you login? It seems they are upgrading their website this weekend some time. I hope they haven't changed everything and made my app completely unusable.
As a reminder to everybody who has PM'd me, make sure you give me your UDID number (you get from iTunes when you click on your iPhones serial number), not other numbers. The UDID is a 40 digit alpha-numeric string. Also give me your email address and dont worry if it says "hash unreadable"...I can still read it.
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Super keen to be a tester. currently use co-pilot which is good but lacks some of the features you have developed. A couple of useful things i think would be cool...
as somebody already said, wx radar overlay
moving map with a/c location, track, hdg, gs, time to waypoint etc.
also on the same display, alternates or nearest to (think already done) with direct tracks/hdgs and time to waypoint.
Also like co-pilot the ability to link flight planning, and aicraft specs so you can plan navs etc..
but yeh looks awesome, happy to chip in a couple of bucks for it!
will pm you the udid and email.
cheers
as somebody already said, wx radar overlay
moving map with a/c location, track, hdg, gs, time to waypoint etc.
also on the same display, alternates or nearest to (think already done) with direct tracks/hdgs and time to waypoint.
Also like co-pilot the ability to link flight planning, and aicraft specs so you can plan navs etc..
but yeh looks awesome, happy to chip in a couple of bucks for it!
will pm you the udid and email.
cheers
Thread Starter
http://www.open.com.au/mikem/airserv...opyright1.html
This site has a good summary of my dilemmar and the copyright Airservices has on their data. Unfortunately it appears you have to pay AsA a large licensing fee every year to be able to do this kind of thing, and I am now unsure as to whether I can even distribute this kind of thing for free in fear of being sued or something. It appears to be legally very grey from talking to people. Having not heard back from AsA in 2 months I cannot say for certain their stance, however they may be totally supportive for all I know (I dont want to slag them off without hearing their official reply, although I am guessing it wont be too supportive from previous cases).
Airservices have (rightly so) a concern over the integrity of their data and making sure it is not modified, cut-off or what-not, especially if it is legally used to navigate aircraft. What would be the best solution I would think, as to prevent lots of rip-offs and uncontrolled met/notams being seeped out would be to have, like one user suggested, an "Airservices approved" check or list of requirements that a program must have. These might include "no modifying the data", "no interpreting the data into plain english", "must include error checking on x,y,z input fields", "requires the user login using their AsA login/password", "cannot allow anonymous access" etc etc etc.
People involved in beta testing must obviously remember that the software is experimental and may not work as advertised, and the best way to use it is as a backup to paper copies of met/notams getting sucked out the window, and as a fallback option of getting weather (to increase flight safety) should other methods of getting met/notams fail. It is NOT yet approved by airservices as a valid method of getting aeronautical information legally.
This site has a good summary of my dilemmar and the copyright Airservices has on their data. Unfortunately it appears you have to pay AsA a large licensing fee every year to be able to do this kind of thing, and I am now unsure as to whether I can even distribute this kind of thing for free in fear of being sued or something. It appears to be legally very grey from talking to people. Having not heard back from AsA in 2 months I cannot say for certain their stance, however they may be totally supportive for all I know (I dont want to slag them off without hearing their official reply, although I am guessing it wont be too supportive from previous cases).
Airservices have (rightly so) a concern over the integrity of their data and making sure it is not modified, cut-off or what-not, especially if it is legally used to navigate aircraft. What would be the best solution I would think, as to prevent lots of rip-offs and uncontrolled met/notams being seeped out would be to have, like one user suggested, an "Airservices approved" check or list of requirements that a program must have. These might include "no modifying the data", "no interpreting the data into plain english", "must include error checking on x,y,z input fields", "requires the user login using their AsA login/password", "cannot allow anonymous access" etc etc etc.
People involved in beta testing must obviously remember that the software is experimental and may not work as advertised, and the best way to use it is as a backup to paper copies of met/notams getting sucked out the window, and as a fallback option of getting weather (to increase flight safety) should other methods of getting met/notams fail. It is NOT yet approved by airservices as a valid method of getting aeronautical information legally.