My GNS430W is lost!
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Location: Back in Japan, flying the Glider Tug, eating great Japanese food, looking at lovely Japanese Ladies and continuing the neverending search for a bad bottle of Red.
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Better put all those VORs and NDBs back...
Never mind Forky, You'll get over it!
At least you've proved that having more than one unit can be of use.
Thread Starter
The co-ordinates for YPTN in the G496 and the G430 are as follows:
G496 - 14 31.27; 132 22.66
G430 - 14 31.27; 132 22.67
The snail trail on the 496 clearly shows the aeroplane tracking a straight line that would have missed Tindal by about 5 nm - until I intervened!
Dr
G496 - 14 31.27; 132 22.66
G430 - 14 31.27; 132 22.67
The snail trail on the 496 clearly shows the aeroplane tracking a straight line that would have missed Tindal by about 5 nm - until I intervened!
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 19th May 2009 at 08:09.
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Originally Posted by FTDK
G496 - 14 31.27; 132 22.66
G430 - 14 31.27; 132 22.67
G430 - 14 31.27; 132 22.67
Has the 430 had a firmware update or anything like that recently?
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Good thing it wasn't outputting to ADSB could have been a disaster !!!!!
Or maybe just shows the fallability in relying on GPS for accurate position rather than SSR in busy terminal areas.
Or maybe just shows the fallability in relying on GPS for accurate position rather than SSR in busy terminal areas.
Crikey, yes it could well be a problem there Joker. If it was satellite based then everyone in the immediate area would all be skewed the same distance. It it was unit based then.....more investigation is needed.
XXX your thoughts crossed my mind back around the time of the BLA crash.
What it does indicate is the need for WAAS ground receivers to augment if there is a dud satellite. Which brings up the next question...why didn't FDE kick in and block the dud signal, Doc?
XXX your thoughts crossed my mind back around the time of the BLA crash.
What it does indicate is the need for WAAS ground receivers to augment if there is a dud satellite. Which brings up the next question...why didn't FDE kick in and block the dud signal, Doc?
Grumpy
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I was once (in the 1980s) in the right hand seat of a CAA V-tail (B35) flying Canberra to Coffs Harbour on an IFR plan.
The PIC said to me somewhere about Port Macquarie - "what are you doing?" as I looked out of the right hand window with a WAC chart in lap; a prayer wheel and my brand new Avstar calculator, scribbling on a pad.
I replied "navigating".
His reply was "the department wouldn't have given us all of this navigation equipment (VOR; DME; NDB etc) if they wanted you to look out of the window.
As we were in VMC - explains why there are some near misses.
Barkly
The PIC said to me somewhere about Port Macquarie - "what are you doing?" as I looked out of the right hand window with a WAC chart in lap; a prayer wheel and my brand new Avstar calculator, scribbling on a pad.
I replied "navigating".
His reply was "the department wouldn't have given us all of this navigation equipment (VOR; DME; NDB etc) if they wanted you to look out of the window.
As we were in VMC - explains why there are some near misses.
Barkly
I din't know that CAA had vtails. I thought they were all B36's, even though they only had four seats fitted.
Grandpa Aerotart
Definately had V35s...my first Instructor and the Chap who gave me my initial CIR were killed in the CAA V35/Glider midair at Tocumwall...knocked off one/both of the ruddervators and then spun in.
Re the GPS error...one is working fine and the other not indicates it isn't in the satellite clock but rather in the G430W unit itself. Software glitch?
Was it a consistent 5nm all day or just nearing YPTN?
Re the GPS error...one is working fine and the other not indicates it isn't in the satellite clock but rather in the G430W unit itself. Software glitch?
Was it a consistent 5nm all day or just nearing YPTN?
ForkTailedDrKiller
I remember you only recently showing photos of your GPS loosing its position. It may be the aerial or it may be that the GPS needs to be reset, i.e. letting it look for the satellite constellation again just as you had to when you first bought it. I haven’t used a GA GPS for nearly ten years but most have a means of doing this. Refer to its manual or if this fails an avionics tech.
I remember you only recently showing photos of your GPS loosing its position. It may be the aerial or it may be that the GPS needs to be reset, i.e. letting it look for the satellite constellation again just as you had to when you first bought it. I haven’t used a GA GPS for nearly ten years but most have a means of doing this. Refer to its manual or if this fails an avionics tech.
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CAA V-tails
Yeh ,my testing officer arrived in one in Bundy 'bout 1983 for my PPL test.
Endearing chappie named Charlie Moggs as I recall......claimed only "divine intervention" allowed me reach the runway at YGAY when he 'failed ' the donk...
Knew there was something about them that put me off.....
Getting back to the topic my G155xl has an occasional tendency to head left as it passes inside 30nm from destination...if it's coupled and I am self briefing for an approach for a few seconds it seems to wander a fair bit...but corrects if I hit the 'direct to' button....had my antenna checked as on a rare solo in 'the' FTDK going into YBTL the pre- WAAS 430 took me off track , ...and was only transmitting on Com2...and turned out to be a loose connection? or not plugged into the rack fully? or something like that?
Have ya had that checked Doc?.....she shakes and rattles a bit...
Flopt
Endearing chappie named Charlie Moggs as I recall......claimed only "divine intervention" allowed me reach the runway at YGAY when he 'failed ' the donk...
Knew there was something about them that put me off.....
Getting back to the topic my G155xl has an occasional tendency to head left as it passes inside 30nm from destination...if it's coupled and I am self briefing for an approach for a few seconds it seems to wander a fair bit...but corrects if I hit the 'direct to' button....had my antenna checked as on a rare solo in 'the' FTDK going into YBTL the pre- WAAS 430 took me off track , ...and was only transmitting on Com2...and turned out to be a loose connection? or not plugged into the rack fully? or something like that?
Have ya had that checked Doc?.....she shakes and rattles a bit...
Flopt
Someone get the smelling salts ready for FTDK
From Fox News
"Mismanagement and underinvestment by the U.S. Air Force could possibly lead to the failure and blackout of the Global Positioning System (GPS), a federal watchdog agency says. The risk of failure starts in 2010, according to the Government Accountability Office (GAO) report quoted by PC World.
The failure would impact not only military operations, but also the millions of people and businesses who rely on the satellite-based navigation systems built into cars, boats and cell phones.
"If the Air Force does not meet its schedule goals for development of GPS IIIA satellites, there will be an increased likelihood that in 2010, as old satellites begin to fail, the overall GPS constellation will fall below the number of satellites required to provide the level of GPS service that the U.S. government commits to," the GAO report states.
The report says the Air Force has struggled to build successful GPS satellites within cost and on schedule."
GPS System Could Begin To Fail Within a Year - Business Center - PC World
"Mismanagement and underinvestment by the U.S. Air Force could possibly lead to the failure and blackout of the Global Positioning System (GPS), a federal watchdog agency says. The risk of failure starts in 2010, according to the Government Accountability Office (GAO) report quoted by PC World.
The failure would impact not only military operations, but also the millions of people and businesses who rely on the satellite-based navigation systems built into cars, boats and cell phones.
"If the Air Force does not meet its schedule goals for development of GPS IIIA satellites, there will be an increased likelihood that in 2010, as old satellites begin to fail, the overall GPS constellation will fall below the number of satellites required to provide the level of GPS service that the U.S. government commits to," the GAO report states.
The report says the Air Force has struggled to build successful GPS satellites within cost and on schedule."
GPS System Could Begin To Fail Within a Year - Business Center - PC World
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A few things for any Avionics techs to answer?
Mobile phones..... coming into range of ground stations and pinging out hard!
Old RG58 Coax.... and maybe not really good connections.
Maybe upgrade to RG400 Coax and all new crimped connectors.
Keep all GSM/Next G devices turned off and see if problem repeats itself. Then Try again and a again with them on. If in IMC make sure all are off.
I have seen G295(5 yrs ago) with own antennae connected (no coax) do a similar thing and also about the range for GSM starting to reconnect.
J
Mobile phones..... coming into range of ground stations and pinging out hard!
Old RG58 Coax.... and maybe not really good connections.
Maybe upgrade to RG400 Coax and all new crimped connectors.
Keep all GSM/Next G devices turned off and see if problem repeats itself. Then Try again and a again with them on. If in IMC make sure all are off.
I have seen G295(5 yrs ago) with own antennae connected (no coax) do a similar thing and also about the range for GSM starting to reconnect.
J
FTDK, was the antennae replaced with the upgrade? As anntennae age they pick up fewer satellites which can lead to innacuracies. I guess its ditto for the wiring & connectors, but I think less likely.
If the 496 was OK, then I think it rules out a RAIM black hole or electromagnetic interference. You've ruled out a database problem, which leads to a reception or processing problem.
The GPS is actually a less complex device then we imagine. It recieves a data string from a satellite, does a bunch of math, then displays the result. All the smart bits are in the math. The reciever part is simple.
If the 496 was OK, then I think it rules out a RAIM black hole or electromagnetic interference. You've ruled out a database problem, which leads to a reception or processing problem.
The GPS is actually a less complex device then we imagine. It recieves a data string from a satellite, does a bunch of math, then displays the result. All the smart bits are in the math. The reciever part is simple.
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Given the fact that the 496 behaved itself during this sequence of events -as it did in the previous event when the 430 went to DR mode, I would be deeply suspicious of a software (firmware or possibly something in a recent database update) bug or electrical fault in the unit itself. As others have suggested, I'd be inclined to do a full system-reboot as far as is possible initially, as well as check the WAAS/SBAS systems are entirely disabled. If that didn't help, then it'd be off the the Dr's Shop (GPS Dr rather than the FT Dr 
) to have the unit thoroughly assessed and the antenna's connections checked. Do Garmin have any sort of user-feedback system you can check? Surely there must be somewhere end-users discuss issues with their units? Jeppesen don't have anything I can see (I've looked) which seems strange... their databases are not always the be-all end-all, particularly for the VFR units.
Jaba: interesting comments re the coax... can you add any more info on the shortcoming/benefits of the various grades?
Another thought occurs... I know you'll have considered this, but I'll ask anyway: is there any possibility the 430 had dropped into approach-mode and was guiding you to an RNAV fix for an approach? Stupid q I know...
Did you have any opportunity during the sequence of events to see where its current goto was?
I'm really interested to see what the outcome of this will be!
) to have the unit thoroughly assessed and the antenna's connections checked. Do Garmin have any sort of user-feedback system you can check? Surely there must be somewhere end-users discuss issues with their units? Jeppesen don't have anything I can see (I've looked) which seems strange... their databases are not always the be-all end-all, particularly for the VFR units.Jaba: interesting comments re the coax... can you add any more info on the shortcoming/benefits of the various grades?
Another thought occurs... I know you'll have considered this, but I'll ask anyway: is there any possibility the 430 had dropped into approach-mode and was guiding you to an RNAV fix for an approach? Stupid q I know...
Did you have any opportunity during the sequence of events to see where its current goto was?
I'm really interested to see what the outcome of this will be!
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I am not a guru on the coax thing, however the RG400 is the ducks nuts now apparently, is double shielded and nicer looking centre conductor.
Other interesting thing, your GPS antenna coax must be around 17 feet or more long. That is a big deal for impedance apparently.
Main issue I have seen is a G295 showing wrong data and pointer due a mobile phone.
RS has some things to check.... the app mode??
I too am keen to learn.
Other interesting thing, your GPS antenna coax must be around 17 feet or more long. That is a big deal for impedance apparently.
Main issue I have seen is a G295 showing wrong data and pointer due a mobile phone.
RS has some things to check.... the app mode??
I too am keen to learn.