A Little Busy at YMMB Lately?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
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well 'arr' am not sure what planet yr from but the 'tossers' down here just seem to wear hats & drive Volvo's
, the youth 'think' they know it all, girls seem to be the worst offenders too.
Don't instructors teach students in the circuit to turn etc when over a famil land mark? This concept is great when yr as green as a blade of grass until experience kicks in & things like wind drift can better be managed.
CW
, the youth 'think' they know it all, girls seem to be the worst offenders too.Don't instructors teach students in the circuit to turn etc when over a famil land mark? This concept is great when yr as green as a blade of grass until experience kicks in & things like wind drift can better be managed.
CW
Never taught students to turn over landmarks, this just made it hard when they go to an unfamiliar airfield. I found it always best to teach position relative to landing point and runway, seemed to work all the time.
As with navigation select land forms that help hold a track while the head is looking outside after the correct heading has been adopted.
As with navigation select land forms that help hold a track while the head is looking outside after the correct heading has been adopted.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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ENR 33.3 Non-standard circuit operations, eg, glide and flapless circuits,
For a flapless you turn base at the same point as in a normal circuit and allow for less drag by reducing the power earlier on base leg. For a practice glide approach you vary the point at which you close the throttle on base leg.
For a glide approach If you are No 3 behind someone downwind then you have no choice except to extend the downwind leg to achieve spacing and again close the throttle on base or even on final when you are certain you can make the field with throttle at idle and simply glide in. What is more straight forward than that.
If of course you desire to do a practice dead stick landing at Moorabbin - in other words a forced landing - then that is something else altogether because it may mean cutting someone off or turning inside someone already on final. Practice dead stick forced landings have no place in a busy circuit - leave that stuff to the training area. A glide approach is simply another means of landing - in fact all flying schools that used Tiger Moths did nothing else but circuits and glide approaches. For a powered approach you did the glide until short final then introduced a trickle of power which then became a powered approach.
Back to the flapless approach in a Cessna 172 or Warrior which is a non-event. There is no need to carry out a long downwind because it stuffs up other people's spacing and people lose more money in dual costs. Most of the time a flapless in these aircraft can be done with closed throttle because of less drag - meaning long low approaches are unnecessary. To put that in perspective the flapless in a 737 follows exactly the same glide slope angle as a normal full flap ILS approach. The normal glide approach angle of a Cessna 172 in nil wind is around seven degrees compared with around 5-6 degrees for a powered approach at 1300 rpm and 60 knots.
Unfortunately Tee M PA28s and 172s are not the only trainers in the circuit and some others don't glide that well, that is they won't make it to the runway from a usual base/downwind position that is practiced by most schools. Some require substantial variation from the normal circuit and therfor a different circuit path.
The problem with the end of your argument is that in the training area you can not complete the glide to ground level and therefor the exercise. What can be done at the GAAP is then complete the exercise from the position it would have been terminated in the training area to a complete landing.
The problem with the end of your argument is that in the training area you can not complete the glide to ground level and therefor the exercise. What can be done at the GAAP is then complete the exercise from the position it would have been terminated in the training area to a complete landing.
Last edited by 43Inches; 2nd Oct 2008 at 14:07.
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I'm of the belief that a glide approach should only be undertaken when there is no traffic ahead of you in the circuit that you would meet if you turned early base. Ie not on base ahead and not on final.
A call should be made as early as possible on downwind to the tower requesting a glide approach and the turn be made when roughly abeam the threshold of the runway. With glide speed set this should take you to the threshold at a fair height to make a safe landing. The turn to final will be more like a curving approach to the runway. Somewhat reminiscent of a WW2 aircraft carrier approach that the British perfected with the Corsair after the Americans initially withdrew it because of poor visibility on final over the nose. The British came up with a curved approach on final keeping the airfield in sight.
A call should be made as early as possible on downwind to the tower requesting a glide approach and the turn be made when roughly abeam the threshold of the runway. With glide speed set this should take you to the threshold at a fair height to make a safe landing. The turn to final will be more like a curving approach to the runway. Somewhat reminiscent of a WW2 aircraft carrier approach that the British perfected with the Corsair after the Americans initially withdrew it because of poor visibility on final over the nose. The British came up with a curved approach on final keeping the airfield in sight.
Thread Starter
Wot the scouser said, plus a deal of side slip or flap if available once you are sure you have made it over the fence.
.....and you "request" it when you are training and "require" it if it is for real.....
.....and you "request" it when you are training and "require" it if it is for real.....
