Cheap Multi time in the Cri Cri?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
Age: 45
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheap Multi time in the Cri Cri?
Whilst "studying" I came across CAO 40.1.0 Appendix VI (page 43) and noticed that the CRI CRI aka the Criquet could be flown under a SE<5700 kg endorsement. Upon further investigation I learnt that a Frog strapped 2 AMT Olympus Turbines onto his (leaving him with 35 kg thrust). Multi-Turbine time sans a Multi endo?
According to another thread the reason one doesn't need a special endorsement is that with the failure of one engine there is bugger all asymmetry due to the prop wash (non turbine) simply blasting the empenage on the live side and correcting the yawing tendency.
I'm certainly not seriously advocating getting one of these to get 500 hours ME PIC but I do wonder if there's a market for people who are a bit shy on numbers to apply for a job who would otherwise be suited. I'm thinking of an instructor mate of mine (with about 1500 TT) whose employer recently had to hire a Duchess to get 50 ME PIC (to get his META I think) so he could instruct on a Baron.
FRQ CB
According to another thread the reason one doesn't need a special endorsement is that with the failure of one engine there is bugger all asymmetry due to the prop wash (non turbine) simply blasting the empenage on the live side and correcting the yawing tendency.
I'm certainly not seriously advocating getting one of these to get 500 hours ME PIC but I do wonder if there's a market for people who are a bit shy on numbers to apply for a job who would otherwise be suited. I'm thinking of an instructor mate of mine (with about 1500 TT) whose employer recently had to hire a Duchess to get 50 ME PIC (to get his META I think) so he could instruct on a Baron.
FRQ CB
![](http://www.amtjets.com/cri_cri_10_gallery.jpg)
Last edited by FRQ Charlie Bravo; 29th Aug 2008 at 02:04. Reason: add hyperlink
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
Age: 45
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you bought one of these overseas would you ferry it or just pack it into you checked luggage?
JK, the range is about 500km max
FRQ CB
JK, the range is about 500km max
FRQ CB
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 60
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Range is not a consideration if you are only worried about 'building time'!
![Wink](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there is one at YHOX, and yes, you can log command twin time in one if its VH registered, i have heard a few stories of pilots in the US buying/building one and using it to gain twin time.. though it would be interesting if asked what type it was in an interview.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiding between the Animal Bar and the Suave Bar
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
with the failure of one engine there is bugger all asymmetry due to the prop wash (non turbine) simply blasting the empenage on the live side and correcting the yawing tendency.
You might want to argue that it's only going to yaw a small amount due to the minimal thrust, but that doesn't change what happens next.
Next, as the fuselage has yawed and the engine is still bolted securely to it, the thrust line of the working engine/propeller has not stayed where it was; it has also yawed - the same amount as the fuselage.
Since the prop wash has turned with the fuselage, it has remained generally parallel with the fuselage, and there is little or no sideways force vector from the prop wash pushing against the yawing moment from the asymmetric thrust.
Bobby Gibbes built a Cri Cri in his living room at home in Sydney over 20 years ago:
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/PPRuNe/BobbieandJeanie_0003.jpg)
He used to get real p!ssed when I referred to it as a twin engine lawn mower!![Bad teeth](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif)
It is on the VH Register and last heard of was still flying somewhere in Australia.
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/PPRuNe/BobbieandJeanie_0003.jpg)
He used to get real p!ssed when I referred to it as a twin engine lawn mower!
![Bad teeth](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif)
It is on the VH Register and last heard of was still flying somewhere in Australia.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
christ that's incredible, now there's one happy man, beer in hand, plane in his lounge room & a woman who's not holding a shot gun at him saying...'get that bloody thing out of my living room' !!
I've just test flown a 1/3 scale PA18 that looks as big as that Cri Cri! Keep an eye out for the article in the current Airborne Mag for modelers!![Thumb](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif)
CW
I've just test flown a 1/3 scale PA18 that looks as big as that Cri Cri! Keep an eye out for the article in the current Airborne Mag for modelers!
![Thumb](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif)
CW
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in the desert
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since the prop wash has turned with the fuselage, it has remained generally parallel with the fuselage, and there is little or no sideways force vector from the prop wash pushing against the yawing moment from the asymmetric thrust.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiding between the Animal Bar and the Suave Bar
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
its the deflection of the prop wash off the canopy that counteracts the asymmetric forces of a failed engine
However, in the photos the canopy appears to be to be only marginally behind the likely position of the CofG; so its distance to the CofG is less than the distance from the propellers to the CofG. And the sideways force generated by the prop-wash is certainly less than the total thrust from the propeller/engine combination.
It seems very unlikely that (the small amount of sideways force x the shorter distance from the canopy to the CofG) > (the larger forward component of propeller thrust x the longer distance from the propeller to the CofG)
I don't know why the CRI CRI gets the exemption in 40.1.0, but obviously it works in practice. The explanation so far is nice, but it seems unlikely to be the correct one.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt Wally I have a 33% J3 Cub that is about the same size as the Cri Cri. DZY 48 Twin Gasser about 1/3 throttle will pull up 6M ASW28, Ash26 and Discus II. I reckon I could tow up that Cri Cri with half throttle. ![Bad teeth](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif)
Waiting for my RCMA and Airborne mags with interest now (PA 18 was my next project).
![Bad teeth](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif)
Waiting for my RCMA and Airborne mags with interest now (PA 18 was my next project).
![Thumb](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I once thought I might build an R/C model of the Cri Cri, but then again building a scale version a 1/3 BIGGER than the full sized one would still be tiny!![Smilie](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Love the jet powered version, a few hrs on that & a CMD on an A380 ought to be easier!![Smilie](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CW
![Smilie](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Love the jet powered version, a few hrs on that & a CMD on an A380 ought to be easier!
![Smilie](https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CW