TIBA procedures and Jeppesen Docs....
Thread Starter
TIBA procedures and Jeppesen Docs....
Just a question to those who probably know more about these things than I.... Had cause to flick through my Jepps the other day and was perusing the contents and saw the "TIBA procedures" (or similar I think it was - in ATC) heading. Turned to the page (400 series pages I think from memory) only to find that the 400 series pages do not exist in my set of docs.
I first thought that I had made a serious whoopsie while knocking over an ammendment, however each person I have checked with Jepps docs does not possess the section in question either!
Are we all just muppets (which if I am I'll take on the chin) or is there a serious deficiency afoot? I might suggest those using Jepps take a quick look for the section to see if you possess it, and if not we might need to ask Jepp'n Oz to issue a page checklist again (just about due anyway).
The scary part is that TIBA is becoming a part of life for many nowadays. We need that info.
Regards,
OpsN.
I first thought that I had made a serious whoopsie while knocking over an ammendment, however each person I have checked with Jepps docs does not possess the section in question either!
Are we all just muppets (which if I am I'll take on the chin) or is there a serious deficiency afoot? I might suggest those using Jepps take a quick look for the section to see if you possess it, and if not we might need to ask Jepp'n Oz to issue a page checklist again (just about due anyway).
The scary part is that TIBA is becoming a part of life for many nowadays. We need that info.
Regards,
OpsN.
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Me too!!!!!!
Yep Ops, your not alone just looked in my jeppies for that section. Contents page 401-476 not there. 
Anyone else out there with same deal. About to do a renewal and this stuff looks pretty important.
Anyone else out there with same deal. About to do a renewal and this stuff looks pretty important.
You qualify as a muppet normally anyway OpsNormal, 
.
I can't be 100% certain, however I think the TIBA pages are a bit past where they say they are. Stupid I know, but I'm pretty sure they do exist in the Jepps. I'll have another look when I go to work next.
Cheers
morno
.I can't be 100% certain, however I think the TIBA pages are a bit past where they say they are. Stupid I know, but I'm pretty sure they do exist in the Jepps. I'll have another look when I go to work next.
Cheers
morno
Thread Starter
It would indeed appear that I qualify as a Muppet.
I must admit to just thumbing through the index and then going looking for the info, rather than reading the whole thing.
Regards,
OpsN
I must admit to just thumbing through the index and then going looking for the info, rather than reading the whole thing.
Regards,
OpsN
It would indeed appear that I qualify as a Muppet.
I still maintain that the main objective of the forum is to GAIN KNOWLEDGE
, (not to shoot each other down in flames 
)
Bottums Up
The simple answer is that no Australian Jeppesen should have pages in the 400 series. If you look further into the contents, you will see pages AU-xxx. It is the AU pages (with only a few exceptions) that will be found in an Aussie manual.
TIBA ATC AU-114 to AU-115.
TIBA ATC AU-114 to AU-115.
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So now you know where to find the procedures.
My question is, who has training in the procedures, and would you fly in TIBA, without the training? If you would, how long before entering TIBA would you be 'boning' up on the procedures, before leaving the terminal? As soon as you realise you will be going in the TIBA; just prior to entering to make sure you've don it right?
From a controller perspective, I've rarely have aircraft leaving TIBA, call me at the right time for a clearance in my airspace which abuts the TIBA, why?
My question is, who has training in the procedures, and would you fly in TIBA, without the training? If you would, how long before entering TIBA would you be 'boning' up on the procedures, before leaving the terminal? As soon as you realise you will be going in the TIBA; just prior to entering to make sure you've don it right?
From a controller perspective, I've rarely have aircraft leaving TIBA, call me at the right time for a clearance in my airspace which abuts the TIBA, why?
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A certain airline crew were "boning up" on TIBA procedures on ground frequency during their taxi out to 34L recently which was a right royal P.I.T.A for everyone else trying to get a word in for pushback/taxi clearances etc. 
Not the time or place to do your homework fellas !!!
Not the time or place to do your homework fellas !!!
Last edited by woftam; 13th Jul 2008 at 09:03.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input!
What I did neglect to mention is that I do keep an AIP updated and current (just not the DAP part of it as we don't use them at work), so the TIBA info itself isn't an issue (however to be honest I would never have remembered the frequencies off the top of my head).
Gott'im Clarrie, found it while away for the evening (without internet access to prune etc). I must admit that I was only skimming the contents the first time I was having a look for it while waiting to pax on a flight. My immediate thought is now that others could be drawn-in like I was (I'll admit it, yep, I'm a muppet....).
DCT, she tells me which pants I can wear each day, if you get my drift..... (She doesn't often get free shots but boy does she use 'em!)
SM4 Pirate. TIBA training? Wassat?
I cannot be sure it is covered in any great depth during flying training except for possibly a small ground component if at all. Anyone? I must admit it was many many years ago for me (and I have probably forgotten anyway). I must admit that I've never had hands-on exposure to it so would be a little hesitant bearing in mind the possible closing speeds involved in cruise (especially above FL200).
SM4, my understanding is 15mins prior to requiring a clearance, is that right?
Regards,
OpsN.
PS, morno - you hick, there's nothing pretty about you mate!
What I did neglect to mention is that I do keep an AIP updated and current (just not the DAP part of it as we don't use them at work), so the TIBA info itself isn't an issue (however to be honest I would never have remembered the frequencies off the top of my head).
Gott'im Clarrie, found it while away for the evening (without internet access to prune etc). I must admit that I was only skimming the contents the first time I was having a look for it while waiting to pax on a flight. My immediate thought is now that others could be drawn-in like I was (I'll admit it, yep, I'm a muppet....).
DCT, she tells me which pants I can wear each day, if you get my drift.....
(She doesn't often get free shots but boy does she use 'em!)SM4 Pirate. TIBA training? Wassat?
I cannot be sure it is covered in any great depth during flying training except for possibly a small ground component if at all. Anyone? I must admit it was many many years ago for me (and I have probably forgotten anyway). I must admit that I've never had hands-on exposure to it so would be a little hesitant bearing in mind the possible closing speeds involved in cruise (especially above FL200). SM4, my understanding is 15mins prior to requiring a clearance, is that right?
Regards,
OpsN.
PS, morno - you hick, there's nothing pretty about you mate!
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SM4 Pirate. TIBA training? Wassat? I cannot be sure it is covered in any great depth during flying training except for possibly a small ground component if at all. Anyone? I must admit it was many many years ago for me (and I have probably forgotten anyway). I must admit that I've never had hands-on exposure to it so would be a little hesitant bearing in mind the possible closing speeds involved in cruise (especially above FL200).
SM4, my understanding is 15mins prior to requiring a clearance, is that right?
It's a mess, I suspect that the two near "events" which that happened on Sunday morning near Canberaa, which would have had a controller sweating if he/she was doing it, without any of the 4 different sets of pilots even knowing they were close, is going to get serious attention. I only hope it does; because I'm with Dick Smith on this one, TIBA is dangerous and a joke.
Its pretty straight forward for a professional n'est-ce pas?
5. TRAFFIC INFORMATION BROADCAST BY AIRCRAFT
(TIBA)
5.1 TIBA Procedures
5.1.1 TIBA procedures are intended to permit reports and relevant
supplementary information of an advisory nature to be transmitted
by pilots for the information of pilots of other aircraft in the vicinity.
5.2 Frequency
5.2.1 Aircraft must maintain a listening watch on the appropriate TIBA
frequency. Where VHF is used for air-ground communications
with ATS and an aircraft has two serviceable VHF sets, one must
be tuned to the appropriate ATS frequency and the other to the
TIBA frequency.
5.2.2 The appropriate TIBA frequencies are:
a. at or above FL200, 128.95MHz;
b. below FL200:
(1) In Class G airspace other than in oceanic areas, the FIA
frequency;
(2) otherwise 126.35MHz.
5.3 Listening Watch
5.3.1 A listening watch must be maintained on the TIBA frequency 10
minutes before entering the designated airspace until leaving this
airspace. For an aircraft taking off from an aerodrome located
within 10 minutes flying time of that airspace, listening watch must
start as soon as practicable after take-off.
5.4 Time of Broadcasts
5.4.1 Broadcasts must be made:
a. 10 minutes before entering the designated airspace or, for an
aircraft taking off from an aerodrome located with 10 minutes
flying time of the airspace, as soon as practicable after take-off;
b. 10 minutes prior to crossing a reporting point;
c. 10 minutes prior to crossing or joining an ATS contingency
route;
d. at 20 minute intervals between distant reporting points;
e. 2 to 5 minutes, where possible, before a change in flight level;
f. at the time of a change in flight level; and
g. at any other time considered necessary by the pilot.
5.5 Acknowledgement of Broadcasts
5.5.1 Broadcasts should not be acknowledged unless a potential
collision risk exists.
5.6 Changes of Cruising Level
5.6.1 Cruising level changes should not be made within the designated
airspace, unless considered necessary by pilots to avoid traffic
conflicts, for weather avoidance or for other valid operational
reasons.
5.6.2 When changes to cruising level are unavoidable, all available
aircraft lighting which would improve the visual detection of the
aircraft must be displayed while changing levels.
5.6.3 When a change of level is anticipated or initiated, a change of level
report must be made. When the new level is reached, a report
advising that the aircraft is maintaining the new level must be
made.
5.7 Collision Avoidance
5.7.1 If, on receipt of a traffic information broadcast from another
aircraft, a pilot decides that immediate action is necessary to avoid
an imminent collision risk to the aircraft, and this cannot be
achieved in accordance with the right of way provisions or TCAS
resolution, the pilot should:
a. unless an alternative manoeuvre appears more appropriate,
immediately descend 1000FT if above FL410, or 500FT if at or
below FL410;
b. display all available aircraft lighting which would improve the
visual detection of the aircraft;
c. as soon as possible, reply to the broadcast advising action
being taken;
d. notify the action taken on the appropriate TIBA frequency; and
e. as soon as practicable, resume normal flight level, notifying the
action on the appropriate TIBA frequency.
5.8 Position Reporting
5.8.1 Normal position reporting procedures should be continued at all
times, regardless of any action taken to initiate or acknowledge a
traffic information broadcast.
5.8.2 A position report must be made on the next CTA/FIA frequency 15
minutes prior to leaving airspace in which TIBA procedures apply
to obtain a clearance or re-establish SARWATCH on the
appropriate ATS frequency.
5. TRAFFIC INFORMATION BROADCAST BY AIRCRAFT
(TIBA)
5.1 TIBA Procedures
5.1.1 TIBA procedures are intended to permit reports and relevant
supplementary information of an advisory nature to be transmitted
by pilots for the information of pilots of other aircraft in the vicinity.
5.2 Frequency
5.2.1 Aircraft must maintain a listening watch on the appropriate TIBA
frequency. Where VHF is used for air-ground communications
with ATS and an aircraft has two serviceable VHF sets, one must
be tuned to the appropriate ATS frequency and the other to the
TIBA frequency.
5.2.2 The appropriate TIBA frequencies are:
a. at or above FL200, 128.95MHz;
b. below FL200:
(1) In Class G airspace other than in oceanic areas, the FIA
frequency;
(2) otherwise 126.35MHz.
5.3 Listening Watch
5.3.1 A listening watch must be maintained on the TIBA frequency 10
minutes before entering the designated airspace until leaving this
airspace. For an aircraft taking off from an aerodrome located
within 10 minutes flying time of that airspace, listening watch must
start as soon as practicable after take-off.
5.4 Time of Broadcasts
5.4.1 Broadcasts must be made:
a. 10 minutes before entering the designated airspace or, for an
aircraft taking off from an aerodrome located with 10 minutes
flying time of the airspace, as soon as practicable after take-off;
b. 10 minutes prior to crossing a reporting point;
c. 10 minutes prior to crossing or joining an ATS contingency
route;
d. at 20 minute intervals between distant reporting points;
e. 2 to 5 minutes, where possible, before a change in flight level;
f. at the time of a change in flight level; and
g. at any other time considered necessary by the pilot.
5.5 Acknowledgement of Broadcasts
5.5.1 Broadcasts should not be acknowledged unless a potential
collision risk exists.
5.6 Changes of Cruising Level
5.6.1 Cruising level changes should not be made within the designated
airspace, unless considered necessary by pilots to avoid traffic
conflicts, for weather avoidance or for other valid operational
reasons.
5.6.2 When changes to cruising level are unavoidable, all available
aircraft lighting which would improve the visual detection of the
aircraft must be displayed while changing levels.
5.6.3 When a change of level is anticipated or initiated, a change of level
report must be made. When the new level is reached, a report
advising that the aircraft is maintaining the new level must be
made.
5.7 Collision Avoidance
5.7.1 If, on receipt of a traffic information broadcast from another
aircraft, a pilot decides that immediate action is necessary to avoid
an imminent collision risk to the aircraft, and this cannot be
achieved in accordance with the right of way provisions or TCAS
resolution, the pilot should:
a. unless an alternative manoeuvre appears more appropriate,
immediately descend 1000FT if above FL410, or 500FT if at or
below FL410;
b. display all available aircraft lighting which would improve the
visual detection of the aircraft;
c. as soon as possible, reply to the broadcast advising action
being taken;
d. notify the action taken on the appropriate TIBA frequency; and
e. as soon as practicable, resume normal flight level, notifying the
action on the appropriate TIBA frequency.
5.8 Position Reporting
5.8.1 Normal position reporting procedures should be continued at all
times, regardless of any action taken to initiate or acknowledge a
traffic information broadcast.
5.8.2 A position report must be made on the next CTA/FIA frequency 15
minutes prior to leaving airspace in which TIBA procedures apply
to obtain a clearance or re-establish SARWATCH on the
appropriate ATS frequency.
Thread Starter
Herein may lay one of the issues:
That 15 minutes may well be 75-80nm from the boundary of the CTA in which a clearance is going to be sought. The problem with that is that the ground based transmitter may well be out of range of the aircraft at these distances and altitudes of some turboprops (ie; possibly between or up to 150 to 180nm away from the aircraft at say, F160).
Obviously common sense applies, but thoughts on this one?
5.8.2 A position report must be made on the next CTA/FIA frequency 15 minutes prior to leaving airspace in which TIBA procedures apply to obtain a clearance or re-establish SARWATCH on the appropriate ATS frequency.
Obviously common sense applies, but thoughts on this one?
