logging flight time
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: turn L @ Taupo, just past the Niagra Falls...
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Originally Posted by Zoomy
I wish people would get the whole hour thing out of their head and worry about gaining some experience instead.
Maybe you're missing the point Zoomy: the getting of experience and the accurate recording of that flight-time (experience) in the legally mandated manner is the point. Pretty much the rest of your future career hinges on that, not to mention the relatively severe penalties that may be imposed for false recording of flight time.
CAR 5.78
Probably find this relates to areas such as building hours for CPL requirements.
http://casa.gov.au/fcl/flight_time.htm
CAR 224
I would think the ATO would have a better claim to this criteria than the licence applicant.
(1) A private pilot (aeroplane) licence authorises the holder of the licence:
(a) to fly an aeroplane as pilot in command, or as co-pilot, while the
aeroplane is engaged in a private operation; and
(b) to fly an aeroplane as pilot in command while the aeroplane is
engaged in flying training operations for the purpose of
increasing the holder’s flying skill.
(a) to fly an aeroplane as pilot in command, or as co-pilot, while the
aeroplane is engaged in a private operation; and
(b) to fly an aeroplane as pilot in command while the aeroplane is
engaged in flying training operations for the purpose of
increasing the holder’s flying skill.
http://casa.gov.au/fcl/flight_time.htm
Pilot in Command
means the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time.
Note: CAR 224 requires that for each flight the operator shall designate one pilot to act as pilot in command.
means the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time.
Note: CAR 224 requires that for each flight the operator shall designate one pilot to act as pilot in command.
(3) The pilot in command shall have final authority as to the disposition of
the aircraft while he or she is in command and for the maintenance of
discipline by all persons on board.
the aircraft while he or she is in command and for the maintenance of
discipline by all persons on board.
Its probably a wise idea, upon the completion of a flight test, to double-check with the examiner, both the exact duration of the flight, and the column in which it goes!
"That was 2.4 dual, right?"
"That was 2.4 dual, right?"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Delhi
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Some interesting suggestions. Logging is a bit of a contentious issue it seems.
There are a few things I think, that can be surmised however;
a. initial me-cir flight test cannot be counted as pic. one cannot operate as pic under IFR unless holding the necesary rating. A renewal perhaps, if the flight test is done before the rating expires. I always thought it was common practice to log a renewal as ICUS, and letting the bloke on the right log PIC.
b. one cannot fly as pic in an aircraft for which one isnt endorsed. i think that is the whole point of being endorsed.
c. icus can only be logged when one holds a CPL or higher category license.
d. bl**dy americans want to log everything they possibly can as PIC. Its really terrible. I have many friends who have done their training there. After their PPl they feel they can log every flight as PIC, even though their instructor is also logging, and i doubt its dual. to make things worse, everytime they fly with a friend, one logs PIC under simulated IF, and the other logs PIC because he is the "safety pilot" and as such ultimately responsible for the same conduct of the flight.
It just boggles my mind how these kinds of activities are encouraged by the schools.
Things were quite simple in my school:
a. if there is an instructor on board then it is dual.
b. if there is no instructor on board then it is PIC.
I don't think i'd feel comfortable logging it any other way.
There are a few things I think, that can be surmised however;
a. initial me-cir flight test cannot be counted as pic. one cannot operate as pic under IFR unless holding the necesary rating. A renewal perhaps, if the flight test is done before the rating expires. I always thought it was common practice to log a renewal as ICUS, and letting the bloke on the right log PIC.
b. one cannot fly as pic in an aircraft for which one isnt endorsed. i think that is the whole point of being endorsed.
c. icus can only be logged when one holds a CPL or higher category license.
d. bl**dy americans want to log everything they possibly can as PIC. Its really terrible. I have many friends who have done their training there. After their PPl they feel they can log every flight as PIC, even though their instructor is also logging, and i doubt its dual. to make things worse, everytime they fly with a friend, one logs PIC under simulated IF, and the other logs PIC because he is the "safety pilot" and as such ultimately responsible for the same conduct of the flight.
It just boggles my mind how these kinds of activities are encouraged by the schools.
Things were quite simple in my school:
a. if there is an instructor on board then it is dual.
b. if there is no instructor on board then it is PIC.
I don't think i'd feel comfortable logging it any other way.
In New Zealand any sucessfully completed flight test is logged as P in C. If you fail it is logged as dual.
You are being examined in the capacity of P in C. It is not a dual flight. At the completion of the test I can recall being specifically told by the examiner that I log the flight as P in C.
As far as I can recall with the exception of the PPL flight test the candidate must have a type rating signed off for that aircraft prior to attempting the flight test, this is part of the P in C requirements.
The only time that two people in New Zealand can log P in C is during a flight test, the candidate for a successful test and the examiner.
A safety pilot cannot log any time at all in New Zealand, however if a safety pilot is used, for example during I/F currency under the hood, the safety pilots name must be shown in the P in C's logbook.
You are being examined in the capacity of P in C. It is not a dual flight. At the completion of the test I can recall being specifically told by the examiner that I log the flight as P in C.
As far as I can recall with the exception of the PPL flight test the candidate must have a type rating signed off for that aircraft prior to attempting the flight test, this is part of the P in C requirements.
The only time that two people in New Zealand can log P in C is during a flight test, the candidate for a successful test and the examiner.
A safety pilot cannot log any time at all in New Zealand, however if a safety pilot is used, for example during I/F currency under the hood, the safety pilots name must be shown in the P in C's logbook.
What about this?
OK how about this situation? I have a PPL Single Engine Land, I put a hood on and a mate (also a PPL) comes along in the right seat to look out for traffic. I motor along for a hour under the hood.
Can I look that as an hour IF?
I have been with instructors who don't have an instrument rating themselves and have simulated instrument flight with me in the left seat. I logged it as IF then at their instruction.
Interested in your comments and thanks in advance.
Can I look that as an hour IF?
I have been with instructors who don't have an instrument rating themselves and have simulated instrument flight with me in the left seat. I logged it as IF then at their instruction.
Interested in your comments and thanks in advance.
Can I look that as an hour IF?
I have been with instructors who don't have an instrument rating themselves and have simulated instrument flight with me in the left seat. I logged it as IF then at their instruction.
All other instructors can teach basic I/F. (not approaches/holding/arrivals etc)
You log it as I/F. They can't enter IMC and log their time as VFR command only.
In Oz, I was told the other day that the time you log into your logbook is:
Cheers, KP
- Airswitch Time (wheels off to wheels on) ...
- VDO or Tacho Time (Engine start to engine shut down) ...
Cheers, KP
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Hi Kulwin Park,
Have a look at http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/flight_time.htm.
Flight Time
means, in the case of a heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power.............'chock to chock', 'block to block' or 'push back to block' time.
Cheers
Charlie
Have a look at http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/flight_time.htm.
Flight Time
means, in the case of a heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power.............'chock to chock', 'block to block' or 'push back to block' time.
Cheers
Charlie
