Why was Ansett so good?
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Why was Ansett so good?
Over the last few years I have come across quite a few people who used to work for Ansett ( not necessarily pilots) and have all said what a great company they were to work for.
What is is that Ansett did that the airlines in Oz don't currently do? With the current climate I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss.
What is is that Ansett did that the airlines in Oz don't currently do? With the current climate I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss.
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It is only in the public's mind that it was a good airline. A good airline would have changed with the times to compete in the modern aviation world.
I think employees and the travelling public were shocked when it came to an end because it was a familiar site for so many years.
I think employees and the travelling public were shocked when it came to an end because it was a familiar site for so many years.
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Because people were proud to work there. Even towards the end we were proud that we worked for Ansett. Ansett inspired a certain passion within people- both positve and negative. Those Ansett pilots who didn't come back during that year were still passionate about it but in an angry South Sydney sort of way! I think there are a lot of people who work for Qantas who possibly feel the same way but I think that is rapidly changing with the current work climate. Quite possibly the same would have happened to Ansett had it survived.
There is also the nostalgia factor. The bad bits disappear into the background and the good memories stay on.
There is also the nostalgia factor. The bad bits disappear into the background and the good memories stay on.
Evertonian
Ask Howard...he knows a lot of good stuff!
IMHO, it was all because of Reg Ansett. A tough bastard to cross, but he somehow engendered a passion in his staff that carried through long after he was gone. How he did it, will never be known, or matched.
Perhaps, but I doubt you will find a "modern" airline that could run on the passion of its staff as long as Ansett did. Remember, those two clowns that took over ripped the heart out of the place & left it to die, didn't give a stuff about the airline. The airline was rudderless and "management ineffective" for quite a few years. I can't think of any "modern" airlines capable of continuing to operate under those circumstances.
Aren't we all glad those days are over???
Also, lets not forget TAA/Australian in all this. There was something that both of these airlines (AN/TN) shared that QF staff never had.....
IMHO, it was all because of Reg Ansett. A tough bastard to cross, but he somehow engendered a passion in his staff that carried through long after he was gone. How he did it, will never be known, or matched.
A good airline would have changed with the times to compete in the modern aviation world.
Enjoyed a duopoly
Also, lets not forget TAA/Australian in all this. There was something that both of these airlines (AN/TN) shared that QF staff never had.....
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It's plain to see Ansett had a certain 'family' feel about it.
Maybe that's because they treated their workers like family.
Maybe that costs more than current practices.
Maybe their inability to change with the times is one reason why they... sniff... ran out of money...
Maybe that's because they treated their workers like family.
Maybe that costs more than current practices.
Maybe their inability to change with the times is one reason why they... sniff... ran out of money...
I have flown on Ansett/TAA/Australian/Qantas, ocassionally Virgin and only if there is no alternative Jetstar, at gold frequent flyer levels of activity, for 34 years.
Although it was a great novelty for me in 1974 to enjoy caviar and champage in 1st class on the 727 from Mt Isa to Brisbane, it is clear to me now that we paid way to much to fly in this country for way too long.
I can remember once contemplating Brisbane-Singapore-Perth because it was significantly cheaper than Brisbane-Perth. Now that makes no sense.
In 1986, it cost me over $600 to fly my wife and infant son one-way from Brisbane to Townsville. That was the cheapest airfare I could buy at the time. Today it would cost me $260 to do the same thing.
Dr
Although it was a great novelty for me in 1974 to enjoy caviar and champage in 1st class on the 727 from Mt Isa to Brisbane, it is clear to me now that we paid way to much to fly in this country for way too long.
I can remember once contemplating Brisbane-Singapore-Perth because it was significantly cheaper than Brisbane-Perth. Now that makes no sense.
In 1986, it cost me over $600 to fly my wife and infant son one-way from Brisbane to Townsville. That was the cheapest airfare I could buy at the time. Today it would cost me $260 to do the same thing.
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 25th Sep 2007 at 13:55.
Evertonian
...and what was the interest rate on your home loan in 1986 FTDK? Applying todays thinking on yesterdays realities will always produce these sorts of issues.
As long as you can afford $260 on your AWA...then power to you brother!
Enjoy the flight.
As long as you can afford $260 on your AWA...then power to you brother!
Enjoy the flight.
Ansett, at least in the Engineering Division, was managed by people who were "Characters", who had worked their way up from the floor, and who consequently knew what they were talking about, and if pushed could probably do your job a damn sight better than you could.
In other words, and with very rare exceptions, they had earned, and commanded, RESPECT.
Furthermore, they managed cunningly, for example there was one chap who was totally paranoid - so they made him Chief of the Inspection Dept. (Quality control these days), he was as happy as a pig in mud and did a great job.
And finally we had fun, and the company, even if it did pay miserly wages, recognised people and gave credit where credit was due.
In other words, and with very rare exceptions, they had earned, and commanded, RESPECT.
Furthermore, they managed cunningly, for example there was one chap who was totally paranoid - so they made him Chief of the Inspection Dept. (Quality control these days), he was as happy as a pig in mud and did a great job.
And finally we had fun, and the company, even if it did pay miserly wages, recognised people and gave credit where credit was due.
"...and what was the interest rate on your home loan in 1986 FTDK?"
Hmmmm! Not sure of the relevance but ........ 16% maybe!
..... and people are actually want to see that rabble in government again!
How can I put it another way?
Those airfares were 4% of the cost of a new Commodore in 1986. Same flight today costs <1% of the cost of a 2007 Commodore.
Airfares in Australia were TOO high in the days of the duopoly! You could not even buy any sort of discounted one-way airfare. One-way was half of the standard economy airfare!
Dr
Hmmmm! Not sure of the relevance but ........ 16% maybe!
..... and people are actually want to see that rabble in government again!
How can I put it another way?
Those airfares were 4% of the cost of a new Commodore in 1986. Same flight today costs <1% of the cost of a 2007 Commodore.
Airfares in Australia were TOO high in the days of the duopoly! You could not even buy any sort of discounted one-way airfare. One-way was half of the standard economy airfare!
Dr
Evertonian
As you pointed out with your Commodore example, you can make figures work anyway you please. There's no need to go into the economics of how those fares were constructed, but at the time, they reflected the costs of the day.
Perhaps it would be easier if we knew what AN paid for their 767's in purchase price & interest, as opposed to now. (I know for a fact that the import taxes on the 767 was roughly $1.3million...I almost wrote the cheque!) That could be an interesting comparison.
If we go further back, only religious institutions & Courts could afford books in the Dark Ages...now, they're pretty cheap. (So what? Damned right!) Remember, AN/TN & QF as well, were burdened by costs that were historically imposed upon them. I certainly wont argue the ethical validity of those conditions back then, but when Jetstar offered me half of what I earned at Ansett for the same job, well, I withdrew my application.
Someone always pays a price. Back then, it was the punters, today, its the airline employees...swings & roundabouts I suppose...
Perhaps it would be easier if we knew what AN paid for their 767's in purchase price & interest, as opposed to now. (I know for a fact that the import taxes on the 767 was roughly $1.3million...I almost wrote the cheque!
) That could be an interesting comparison.If we go further back, only religious institutions & Courts could afford books in the Dark Ages...now, they're pretty cheap. (So what? Damned right!) Remember, AN/TN & QF as well, were burdened by costs that were historically imposed upon them. I certainly wont argue the ethical validity of those conditions back then, but when Jetstar offered me half of what I earned at Ansett for the same job, well, I withdrew my application.
Someone always pays a price. Back then, it was the punters, today, its the airline employees...swings & roundabouts I suppose...
Back then, it was the punters, today, its the airline employees...swings & roundabouts I suppose...
Buster - you won't get any argument from me on that.
I am appalled by the fact that we pay our gardeners more than many pilots now get.
Dr
Buster - you won't get any argument from me on that.
I am appalled by the fact that we pay our gardeners more than many pilots now get.
Dr