NVFR - Worth it?
Silly Old Git
What Bushy said
Nights up this part of the world anyway,can be so dark you swear the cockpit windows were painted over
Even if you see a ground light you may have no idea whether it is up down or sideways
If youre near the ground and lose the plot youre not far off dead.
Go and spend your money on something else.
(tinpis ex Flyin Doc and NT Aero Med horses guts endorsed IFR)
Nights up this part of the world anyway,can be so dark you swear the cockpit windows were painted over
Even if you see a ground light you may have no idea whether it is up down or sideways
If youre near the ground and lose the plot youre not far off dead.
Go and spend your money on something else.
(tinpis ex Flyin Doc and NT Aero Med horses guts endorsed IFR)
Can be done on the darkest of nights if you take care.
To paraphrase the best words of wisdom taught to me for NVFR:
"It's a sensible combination of IFR and VFR. Make all changes on the AI/AH, then get back into your scan, including outside."
Basically, for takeoff, as you lose reference with the runway lights or whatever your landing lights are illuminating, you'd better be on the AI setting the right attitude, confirm positive rate of climb, after takeoff checks, get your climb scan sorted - then think about looking out for visual cues, traffic etc.
Outside's still vitally important, but don't believe your body when it comes to attitude information - use the instruments. It may work in a city airfield circuit, but MAKE SURE you do some really black night work in your training, then you'll be convinced of the above and will practice realistically.
Edit: I know the official line about NVFR is that it's supposed to just get you home a bit after last light or whatever, and wasn't intended to be a pseudo-instrument rating that lets you fly without a horizon.
However, as everyone knows, the rules don't preclude people launching into the blackest of nights and setting themselves up for all sorts of grief. Therefore, either leave it well alone, or make sure you can control your aircraft very well on instruments, know your limitations and don't get blase.
Off the soapbox now!
To paraphrase the best words of wisdom taught to me for NVFR:
"It's a sensible combination of IFR and VFR. Make all changes on the AI/AH, then get back into your scan, including outside."
Basically, for takeoff, as you lose reference with the runway lights or whatever your landing lights are illuminating, you'd better be on the AI setting the right attitude, confirm positive rate of climb, after takeoff checks, get your climb scan sorted - then think about looking out for visual cues, traffic etc.
Outside's still vitally important, but don't believe your body when it comes to attitude information - use the instruments. It may work in a city airfield circuit, but MAKE SURE you do some really black night work in your training, then you'll be convinced of the above and will practice realistically.
Edit: I know the official line about NVFR is that it's supposed to just get you home a bit after last light or whatever, and wasn't intended to be a pseudo-instrument rating that lets you fly without a horizon.
However, as everyone knows, the rules don't preclude people launching into the blackest of nights and setting themselves up for all sorts of grief. Therefore, either leave it well alone, or make sure you can control your aircraft very well on instruments, know your limitations and don't get blase.
Off the soapbox now!
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NVFR used to be called the class 4 instrument rating, and rightly so. NVFR is instrument flying and should be respected as such. This rating should only be used for before dawn take offs or landings just after last light. It is a great lead in for the CIR.
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Sorry PA39 not sure of your meaning in the second and last sentance. Not an attack - just not sure of your point. 
I would have thought GOOD IF skills are a lead in to becoming competant at night flying -(lets just piss of the VFR bit for a moment) - rather than the night bit being a good lead into into the CIR.
Take a well taught and tested skill into a new situation - not a situation as a lead up to a skill. What IF technique do you suggest one further learns after the night flying box is ticked?
YesTAM - your intro request was a bit thin on detail but I think you a picking up the tone. Get a GOOD school - no - Get a GOOOOD instructor - DEMAND good Demo's before they even hint towards the direct and monitor modes of your training. Start in fairy light land - build the blocks BUT get out there - and get the RHSer out where there are only fireflies mating to assist in seeing the ground - don't get signed off till they will put the missus and kids on board.
Muffin
I would have thought GOOD IF skills are a lead in to becoming competant at night flying -(lets just piss of the VFR bit for a moment) - rather than the night bit being a good lead into into the CIR.
Take a well taught and tested skill into a new situation - not a situation as a lead up to a skill. What IF technique do you suggest one further learns after the night flying box is ticked?
YesTAM - your intro request was a bit thin on detail but I think you a picking up the tone. Get a GOOD school - no - Get a GOOOOD instructor - DEMAND good Demo's before they even hint towards the direct and monitor modes of your training. Start in fairy light land - build the blocks BUT get out there - and get the RHSer out where there are only fireflies mating to assist in seeing the ground - don't get signed off till they will put the missus and kids on board.
Muffin
NVFR is very handy, and a great thing to have on your side if your return trip has been delayed for whatever reason.
I was also warned by my CFI to only use it as a "Get away early" or "Get home a little late" ticket, and not to galavant around the coutryside doing NAVEX's etc. Fair enough - advice taken.
What seemed funny was that the majority of my instructional night VFR hours were done on cross country pitch black night out in the outback, in a single engine Cessna.
I was also warned by my CFI to only use it as a "Get away early" or "Get home a little late" ticket, and not to galavant around the coutryside doing NAVEX's etc. Fair enough - advice taken.
What seemed funny was that the majority of my instructional night VFR hours were done on cross country pitch black night out in the outback, in a single engine Cessna.
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Muffinman
NVFR instruction teaches you the basic instrument scan and navaid tracking and interception. Its a very different story when all outside reference is removed (due cloud, haze fog or no external visual cues). Spatial disorientation plays a huge role in IFR flying and the pilot is taught to "trust" his instruments and not his instincts or body reaction. At night in VMC it is very reasurring to occassionally look outside to the natural horizon and cross referenece your instruments with your position and attitude, but once you take that horizon away its "game on" and flying becomes a very serious business, add a bit of turbulence and its sweaty palm time.
There is also a difference in instrument calibration, radio (TSO) and electrical requirements for IFR aircraft.
You will find a NVFR developes your instrument scan and situational awareness and basic navaid tracking skills.
The CIR FINE tunes those skills to allow instrument approaches etc. 40 hrs of well earned experience.
Guys that fly in the outback and/or on moonless nights are in fact flying in IMC and disorientation becomes a real threat. Been there done that.
I've got a few hrs under my belt (12500) with a good percentage of night IFR and quite often felt "twitchy" when at one zero thousand, its solid IMC, picking up ice and too turbulent to tune a navaid.
The NVFR is a good lead in. Good luck.
NVFR instruction teaches you the basic instrument scan and navaid tracking and interception. Its a very different story when all outside reference is removed (due cloud, haze fog or no external visual cues). Spatial disorientation plays a huge role in IFR flying and the pilot is taught to "trust" his instruments and not his instincts or body reaction. At night in VMC it is very reasurring to occassionally look outside to the natural horizon and cross referenece your instruments with your position and attitude, but once you take that horizon away its "game on" and flying becomes a very serious business, add a bit of turbulence and its sweaty palm time.
There is also a difference in instrument calibration, radio (TSO) and electrical requirements for IFR aircraft.
You will find a NVFR developes your instrument scan and situational awareness and basic navaid tracking skills.
The CIR FINE tunes those skills to allow instrument approaches etc. 40 hrs of well earned experience.
Guys that fly in the outback and/or on moonless nights are in fact flying in IMC and disorientation becomes a real threat. Been there done that.
I've got a few hrs under my belt (12500) with a good percentage of night IFR and quite often felt "twitchy" when at one zero thousand, its solid IMC, picking up ice and too turbulent to tune a navaid.
The NVFR is a good lead in. Good luck.
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Thank you all for your posts. I am now disabused of the notion that NVFR is a 'handy little add-on" and requires a depth of commitment and attention that I am not yet ready to make.
I've had one taste of spatial disorientation, thankfully only for five seconds, climbing out of Point Cook after T/O from 17 (hence over water) on a grey winters day, grey sea, no waves, grey sky, slight haze, almost invisible horizon.
Funny feeling, but a quick look at the A/H followed by a look over shoulder at land fixed it quick smart.
I've had one taste of spatial disorientation, thankfully only for five seconds, climbing out of Point Cook after T/O from 17 (hence over water) on a grey winters day, grey sea, no waves, grey sky, slight haze, almost invisible horizon.
Funny feeling, but a quick look at the A/H followed by a look over shoulder at land fixed it quick smart.
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I recall becoming disoriented under the hood during my PPL training. I knew I was straight and level but I could feel my hands and feet trying to change the controls of the aircraft. I told the instructor I was having a 'bit of a battle' keeping the sucker straight but I would try to overcome it. He said he was surprised that I actually recognised my problem and was surprised that I just didn't start heading off and not trusting the instruments. After about 5 minutes the sensation went away and I've never experienced it again... (except for when I'm pissed).
