Hot Turn-arounds?
Thread Starter
Hot Turn-arounds?
Was wondering what the industry view is on this behaviour? I have recently noticed a few operators only shutting down one engine (the left), while unloading/loading pax/freight. What i would like to know is whether people think this is an acceptable practise, or an accident waiting to happen? I realise there are conditions that must be met......2 crew, one to remain at their station......the other to Handle pax movements etc....but even the most astute of us could overlook something, especially given the amount of noise pollution some of these aircraft are putting out. I realise that the crew/company are trying to save time, cycles on engines.......but how much time are they saving really? And If it is such a valuable exercise why don't we see RPT operators doing it when they don't have to refuel? Just a thought?
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Dogman
RPT operators do hot turnarounds, or as they are usually termed single engine turnarounds, and yes they do save time and money.
Very common practice for a Hazo's Saab at somewhere like Bathurst or Parkes if only picking up one or two pax.
RPT operators do hot turnarounds, or as they are usually termed single engine turnarounds, and yes they do save time and money.
Very common practice for a Hazo's Saab at somewhere like Bathurst or Parkes if only picking up one or two pax.
Last edited by The Messiah; 1st May 2007 at 01:43.
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What ever happened to getting the job done.
Hot turn arounds are perfectly acceptable.....what some people fail to realise is their is alot more flying done in countries outside of the SYD-MEL jet stuff.
It really does save ALOT of money and time and can be done very safely.....some aircraft cannot do hot turnarounds for other reasons eg. metros cant do hot turnorounds on gravel strips because the props get damaged...wheras 1900 or caravans etc can do it easily.
RPT is different because aircraft have to be unloaded and loaded and that generally takes some time so the benifits are offset......whereas if your dropping 20 gins at port keats the captain wont want to get out of the seat and generally spend the least amount of time there as possible so makes sense to just feather the right.
AG operators frequently idle engines for up to 25mins because the fuel burn is offset by cycles costs etc.
Hot turn arounds are perfectly acceptable.....what some people fail to realise is their is alot more flying done in countries outside of the SYD-MEL jet stuff.
It really does save ALOT of money and time and can be done very safely.....some aircraft cannot do hot turnarounds for other reasons eg. metros cant do hot turnorounds on gravel strips because the props get damaged...wheras 1900 or caravans etc can do it easily.
RPT is different because aircraft have to be unloaded and loaded and that generally takes some time so the benifits are offset......whereas if your dropping 20 gins at port keats the captain wont want to get out of the seat and generally spend the least amount of time there as possible so makes sense to just feather the right.
AG operators frequently idle engines for up to 25mins because the fuel burn is offset by cycles costs etc.
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We always used to shut down only the left engine on the Twin-Otter on RPT ops in the Torres Strait.
Saves the engines quite a bit due to the number of cycles.
Loading and off-loading was easily completed within 15 mins and I would never have considered this to be an unsafe practice.
Saves the engines quite a bit due to the number of cycles.
Loading and off-loading was easily completed within 15 mins and I would never have considered this to be an unsafe practice.
Grandpa Aerotart
Completely normal...we did em single pilot in the Twotter in PNG for decades...and only ever one person walked into a spinning feathered prop...twice...and was killed the second time...that is just post natal genetic sellection.
We would typically end the day with 1 or maybe 2 start cycles on the rh engine and 10-20 on the left...and guess which engine was more 'tired'...the left engine that was started 20 times a day.
Aircraft like Saabs, Dash 8s etc don't have APUs (and fitting them would be uneconomical not to mentioned reduced payload) and thus operating the right engine on the ground not only saves wear and tear on the engine but allows it to be used as an APU powering everything that needs powering, radios, EFIS/galleys etc..and allows the aircon packs to be operated making the interior A LOT more pleasant for the pax/crew.
It saves vast amounts of money and has NO downside provided a few basic precautions are followed.
We would typically end the day with 1 or maybe 2 start cycles on the rh engine and 10-20 on the left...and guess which engine was more 'tired'...the left engine that was started 20 times a day.
Aircraft like Saabs, Dash 8s etc don't have APUs (and fitting them would be uneconomical not to mentioned reduced payload) and thus operating the right engine on the ground not only saves wear and tear on the engine but allows it to be used as an APU powering everything that needs powering, radios, EFIS/galleys etc..and allows the aircon packs to be operated making the interior A LOT more pleasant for the pax/crew.
It saves vast amounts of money and has NO downside provided a few basic precautions are followed.
Thread Starter
Thanks fellas, seems its not all that uncommon and fairly safe as well. I guess my main concern was that with the aircraft i've seen doing it (Metro); the noise level is really high......so a wandering pax would need to be pulled up fairly quick as i doubt if they would hear you yelling at them to stop. I have also seen light jet doing this, and wondered about exhaust blast if unsuspecting pax wanders into its path. I guess tight pax control is the go, as it should be always.
Grandpa Aerotart
Less common on the Bandit Animalclub because if you feathered the rh prop the exhaust melted the front window in the RH side. You could do it on a quick turn around but it was bloody noisy with the prop unfeathered...I don't remember doing it much on the Bandit.
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Hot Turnarounds
Helicopters have been doing hot turnarounds since the year dot. Don't see what the big deal is with fixed wing as most turbine aircraft can stop the props. Providing safe embarking/disembarking procedures are used HT's are no more dangerous than cold turnarounds.
"I guess my main concern was that with the aircraft i've seen doing it (Metro); the noise level is really high......"
Yeah, the whole idea of doing it with a Metro is to knock out the punter's hearing so that it is slightly more pleasant (maybe!) for them when they get in the the bloody thing. Saves the cost of earplugs too!
Dr
Yeah, the whole idea of doing it with a Metro is to knock out the punter's hearing so that it is slightly more pleasant (maybe!) for them when they get in the the bloody thing. Saves the cost of earplugs too!
Dr
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Used to see the Talair Twotters do it all the time when I was based at Kerema with Dz. Never ever saw it done with the Bandits though.
Chuckles; I used to be somewhat amused though when you blokes used to 'reverse park' the Twotters back in Moresby at the end of the day.
Chuckles; I used to be somewhat amused though when you blokes used to 'reverse park' the Twotters back in Moresby at the end of the day.
Bottums Up
I recall seeing a turbine ag aircraft parked at the foot of the FS building at Dubbo in about '91, prop merrily spinning around in feather, with the pilot upstairs chatting to FS! 
ATR 42's are DESIGNED to do hot turnarounds! They don't have APU but the RH engine has a thing called HOTEL mode which acts as a APU. All the doors and cargo bays are on the LH side of the aircraft so noone has any reason to go near the right engine.
If I recall correctly Airnorth did Hot Turnarounds in their C208 once but to do it they had a Prop Brake installed and the thing had to be operated 2 pilot with one remaining at the controls all the time.
If I recall correctly Airnorth did Hot Turnarounds in their C208 once but to do it they had a Prop Brake installed and the thing had to be operated 2 pilot with one remaining at the controls all the time.
Neville doesn't "Hotel" mode on the ATR also involve a prop brake as well?
I seem to recall that the only issue with going to that side in Hotel Mode is the noise.
I seem to recall that the only issue with going to that side in Hotel Mode is the noise.
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Chuckles and Pinky...
honest... in the 80's we (I mean the pilots) did it all the time... Stewart, Vic etc. they were always in a hurry to leave Tabubil. They never told me why, but after returning to Goroka from my stint in Honiara I heard the name the pilots gave me... charming!!
honest... in the 80's we (I mean the pilots) did it all the time... Stewart, Vic etc. they were always in a hurry to leave Tabubil. They never told me why, but after returning to Goroka from my stint in Honiara I heard the name the pilots gave me... charming!!