Cirrus......should cessna, Piper, Beech be worried.
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The next generation of GA planes are starting to emerge some are not half bad.. Anyone seen the new proposed single engine piper jet?
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/p...ery-208439.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/p...ery-208439.php
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Apollo: The Cirrus is encased in wire mesh inside of the composite airframe for lightening protection. Unfortunately I have found out the hard way that it works. Fortunately it didn't fry the electronics when I got stuck in the middle of a lightning inspired light show. Although radio communiucation was not possible til I got to the other side of the cloud everything survived including me and the plane.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Rich-Fine-Green
I don't think it is any secret but every C150/152 was sold at a loss which was wrapped up in the marketing budget. It cost near as dammit the same to build a C152 as a C172.
Teach the world to fly and they will buy your aircraft.
It is an article of faith at Cessna and the single biggest reason they continue to dominate the market.
I don't think it is any secret but every C150/152 was sold at a loss which was wrapped up in the marketing budget. It cost near as dammit the same to build a C152 as a C172.
Teach the world to fly and they will buy your aircraft.
It is an article of faith at Cessna and the single biggest reason they continue to dominate the market.
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DA42
Has anyone had any experience with the DA42? Will it be a good 3-4pax charter aircraft or is it really only suited to private and training work?
The fuel burn stats and airspeeds are very enticing to a charter operator.
Also with the DA20/40 are you able to remove the passenger side joystick?
The fuel burn stats and airspeeds are very enticing to a charter operator.
Also with the DA20/40 are you able to remove the passenger side joystick?
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have there been a large number of reports of composite aircraft suffering failures as a result of a lightning strike??
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_500699.pdf
Don't feature in this type of thing without a chute
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_500699.pdf
Don't feature in this type of thing without a chute
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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I wonder how the market will react in say 15 years or so when composite owners get an AD in the mail telling them to discard the aircraft, as prolonged exposure to UV, fuel, solvents, multiple heat/cold cycles and age have been proven to be a significant factor in hull losses.
this is still an emerging technology, and it still hasn't been around long enough to prove that its up to the grade over time.
Ever had a look at an eagle or grob over five years old?. they look like crap. the finish is oxidizing and powdery, questionable looking repairs, doubt as to how a repair will effect the whole structural integrity, stains on the finish, that cannot be removed without the removal of some of the surface material, Ect.
Would be a shame to invest 3-500K into an aircraft that has a 10 year life....... and you find out after 5 years of owning it.
I guess there is the repair issues to worry about as well. when you bend an aluminium part, you drill out the rivets and replace the damaged part. composites are a whole different story. usually including a whole integrated hull design, that will depend on the structure as a whole to remain intact, to retain its designed structural integrity. one hard landing or and over run or something, could potentially cost you a whole airplane instead of a few dents and a few bulkheads and skins being changed out.
Just a different viewpoint.
this is still an emerging technology, and it still hasn't been around long enough to prove that its up to the grade over time.
Ever had a look at an eagle or grob over five years old?. they look like crap. the finish is oxidizing and powdery, questionable looking repairs, doubt as to how a repair will effect the whole structural integrity, stains on the finish, that cannot be removed without the removal of some of the surface material, Ect.
Would be a shame to invest 3-500K into an aircraft that has a 10 year life....... and you find out after 5 years of owning it.
I guess there is the repair issues to worry about as well. when you bend an aluminium part, you drill out the rivets and replace the damaged part. composites are a whole different story. usually including a whole integrated hull design, that will depend on the structure as a whole to remain intact, to retain its designed structural integrity. one hard landing or and over run or something, could potentially cost you a whole airplane instead of a few dents and a few bulkheads and skins being changed out.
Just a different viewpoint.
Sprucegoose
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I wonder how the market will react in say 15 years or so when composite owners get an AD in the mail telling them to discard the aircraft, as prolonged exposure to UV, fuel, solvents, multiple heat/cold cycles and age have been proven to be a significant factor in hull losses.
this is still an emerging technology, and it still hasn't been around long enough to prove that its up to the grade over time.
this is still an emerging technology, and it still hasn't been around long enough to prove that its up to the grade over time.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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you mean the BRAND NEW A380?. I guess time will tell. Although I hardly think the 380 would make Cessna or piper shake in their collective boots on the competition side of things. apples and oranges.
Time will tell all I guess.
Time will tell all I guess.
Sprucegoose
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Was referring more to the fact that it is 25% composite, including the tail section!!
Do they make BRS that big?
Do they make BRS that big?
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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It has a huge cargo door doesn't it?. they might just equip everyone on board with the personalized version.
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As far as I know, the only three problems I am aware of with composite aircraft are :
1. Repair. I remember a Boeing graph showing the cost of repairs vs strength, and you never get the full strength back in a composite repair, no matter how much you pay. Aluminium, on the other hand doesn't have this penalty - drill it out and replace it, or if necessary shove a scab patch on it.
2. Temperature limits - composites lose strength at quite low temperatures, I gather the earleir DA20 (Diamonds) had temperature gauges because of main spar limitations.
3. Micro cracking. Not sure if this is a problem in Aircraft, but it sure is in boats. Take a top class racing yacht and beat the sh&t out of it in the Sydeny Hobart for a few years, after a while the hull sort of gets "soft' and you can't get the rig tension anymore because when you pull on the backstay it simply bends the boat like a banana (great trick is to wait till someone goes to the loo and then "lock" the door on them by pumping up the rig tension).
I'm not sure if this is simply a function of too light construction leaving too much flexibility or not. I'm also not sure where it might appear in an aircraft (stress concentrations?) Of course composites don't necessarily have fatigue limits like aluminium.
1. Repair. I remember a Boeing graph showing the cost of repairs vs strength, and you never get the full strength back in a composite repair, no matter how much you pay. Aluminium, on the other hand doesn't have this penalty - drill it out and replace it, or if necessary shove a scab patch on it.
2. Temperature limits - composites lose strength at quite low temperatures, I gather the earleir DA20 (Diamonds) had temperature gauges because of main spar limitations.
3. Micro cracking. Not sure if this is a problem in Aircraft, but it sure is in boats. Take a top class racing yacht and beat the sh&t out of it in the Sydeny Hobart for a few years, after a while the hull sort of gets "soft' and you can't get the rig tension anymore because when you pull on the backstay it simply bends the boat like a banana (great trick is to wait till someone goes to the loo and then "lock" the door on them by pumping up the rig tension).
I'm not sure if this is simply a function of too light construction leaving too much flexibility or not. I'm also not sure where it might appear in an aircraft (stress concentrations?) Of course composites don't necessarily have fatigue limits like aluminium.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Thats pretty much what I said. 
I reckon composites will eventually have a fatigue life when its been about long enough to study.
I reckon composites will eventually have a fatigue life when its been about long enough to study.
