Standard of Aviation English
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all beginners out there having trouble with R/T & ATC requirements, simply get hold of a VHF scanner & listen.............sure you will hear lots of incorrect phrases but in little time you will soon sort out what's correct or close to it from what is not, in conjunction with the AIP (official docs) it helps a great deal, go listen & have a laugh at times, it's free & learn by others mistakes.
Capt Wally........
Capt Wally........
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oberon NSW
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Standards Of English
It is difficult enough trying to understand some of these students at the best of times, but when you add poor quality radios, some Instructors who just seem to want to snooze in the right seat, and students who seem to know about ten phrases, an unusual request or instruction from ATC seems to throw some of these students way off their game. I have heard ATC ask, and then plead, for a response from some of these students up to four or five times. Goodness knows what is going to happen when they are on a solo navex and something goes wrong. How on earth are some of these students going to get their point across at a moment of crisis and how on earth is ATC or another pilot who may be able to assist going to get their point across? Come on, you Flying Schools who know who you are, lift your games and FORCE your Instructors to do their jobs. We all know who is involved, so for the sake of your own pride, LIFT YOUR GAME.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 38
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again I'd just like to say how I really wish there was some list of common radio commands between ATC and pilots, so I could study the commands and replies. It's hard to remember a complete set of new radio responses after one lesson when having used them only once.
At this point, due to the way I've been taught radio commands just by repeating what my instructor tells me, I wonder how other pilots learn the hundreds/thousands of commands without studying actual text material.
Perhaps there is a text book I have not bought?
At this point, due to the way I've been taught radio commands just by repeating what my instructor tells me, I wonder how other pilots learn the hundreds/thousands of commands without studying actual text material.
Perhaps there is a text book I have not bought?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oberon NSW
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Standards Of English
I think that some of our fellow aviators are in somewhat of a confused state of mind. I think that some of them think that piloting an aircraft, as distinct from flying it, is similar to driving their car. When driving the car, it doesn't really require us to think about the language we use. Piloting an aircraft however, is a vastly different kettle of fish. ICAO and lots on its member states recognise that a standardised method of communication based upon clear, concise and precise phraseology is the best available mitigator against confusion between ATC and pilots. It has worked well for many years and still works well today. To the person who doesn't know how to find where the correct RT is posted, you really need to start looking. Have you asked anyone or researched ICAO, CASA and Airservices Australia documentation or has that thought not occurred to you yet? It IS different from driving a car. You NEED to be a different person if you are to pilot an aircraft. There is no room for laziness in aviation.
Talking to expat mate in Turkey last night, he has heard that ICAO is pushing to certify ALL aviation participants (ATC and PILOT, worldwide) on their standard of communications. A test will be done to certify your level. Level 4, you must re-certify every three years. Level 5, every 6 years and Level 6 a lifetime certificate. Certification before March,2008.
Anyone else heard about this?
Anyone else heard about this?
Last edited by OZBUSDRIVER; 25th Mar 2007 at 01:13.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: everywhere
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry guys but I'm sick to death about these bloody w@nkers on here correcting everyone’s spelling and gramma. Most posters on pprune are posting just for fun and are not concerned or don't have the time to proof read every post they make. You should be thankful they are even taking the time to give you their opinion and advise, which keeps us all informed and educated in the industry.
By making such a big deal about this you’re scaring away potential posters. If it makes you so obviously distressed to read why don't you before reading every post copy and paste it to word and use its spell checker you obviously have more time on your hands than everyone else.
By making such a big deal about this you’re scaring away potential posters. If it makes you so obviously distressed to read why don't you before reading every post copy and paste it to word and use its spell checker you obviously have more time on your hands than everyone else.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 38
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a reply to mirage...
Why are you comparing flying to driving a car? I don't think people need to learn any radio lingo to be able to drive a car. 
And what is "RT". You seem to know all about it, yet you're telling me to go find out about it myself?
How did you learn the radio commands?
I have asked people so far and still nobody's given me a straight answer.
Also, how can anyone even think of 'standardising' the radio commands if there is no documentation which teaches people a set of 'standard' commands. (unless i am wrong)
Without documentation, I don't see how anyone can enforce a standardised or what I think would be better described as a 'by-the-book' approach, when there is no book
If there is no book, learning radio is ridiculous and that's pretty much why I still don't know any of the radio stuff and make mistakes when I fly.
Also, I'm not lazy.
It's quite inappropriate and rude of you to say that I'm lazy while I have obviously made an attempt to learn radio lingo while you hadn't even bothered to tell me exactly where I may find useful documentation to aid in my doing so.
How hypocritical of you to say there is no room for laziness in aviation while you couldn't even spare a few seconds to help me with my problem!
And what is "RT". You seem to know all about it, yet you're telling me to go find out about it myself?
How did you learn the radio commands?
I have asked people so far and still nobody's given me a straight answer.
Also, how can anyone even think of 'standardising' the radio commands if there is no documentation which teaches people a set of 'standard' commands. (unless i am wrong)
Without documentation, I don't see how anyone can enforce a standardised or what I think would be better described as a 'by-the-book' approach, when there is no book
If there is no book, learning radio is ridiculous and that's pretty much why I still don't know any of the radio stuff and make mistakes when I fly.
Also, I'm not lazy.
It's quite inappropriate and rude of you to say that I'm lazy while I have obviously made an attempt to learn radio lingo while you hadn't even bothered to tell me exactly where I may find useful documentation to aid in my doing so.
How hypocritical of you to say there is no room for laziness in aviation while you couldn't even spare a few seconds to help me with my problem!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: inner suburbia
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Uhhmmm,,, Coolcat.... Has anyone mentioned the acronym 'AIP' to you yet ?
If not, go to your favourite supplier of aviation publications or AirServices Australia and buy an Aeronautical Information Publication.
(or if you have lots of time and download credits, browse the online version of it at the Airservices website at http://www.airservices.gov.au/public.../aip.asp?pg=10)
Gen 3.4 section 4 is "Radiotelephony procedures" and section 5 is "Phraseologies".
If not, go to your favourite supplier of aviation publications or AirServices Australia and buy an Aeronautical Information Publication.
(or if you have lots of time and download credits, browse the online version of it at the Airservices website at http://www.airservices.gov.au/public.../aip.asp?pg=10)
Gen 3.4 section 4 is "Radiotelephony procedures" and section 5 is "Phraseologies".
Fhead. FFS build yourself a bridge and get over it. Has somebody had a little dig at another one of your alter egos and you've got your panties in a bundle?
"Most" posters on PPRuNe? Speak for yourself. Most posters here are hard-working professional people who don't have the time to read the rubbish posted by someone with the literary skills (read: usually also reasoning skills) of a kindergarten aged child. If you don't have the knowledge, upbringing (or are just too d@mned lazy) to be able to string a few cohesive and well constructed sentances together (you know, those ones that are easy to read) then your opinion is only worth something to yourself, especially your view or take of something in the industry. Go and enjoy it by yourself.
Not everybody can spell every word in the language, however nobody will get uspet at anyone if they at least have a decent go at it. What you are advocating as OK is nothing short of rubbish. Lift your game.
"Most" posters on PPRuNe? Speak for yourself. Most posters here are hard-working professional people who don't have the time to read the rubbish posted by someone with the literary skills (read: usually also reasoning skills) of a kindergarten aged child. If you don't have the knowledge, upbringing (or are just too d@mned lazy) to be able to string a few cohesive and well constructed sentances together (you know, those ones that are easy to read) then your opinion is only worth something to yourself, especially your view or take of something in the industry. Go and enjoy it by yourself.
Not everybody can spell every word in the language, however nobody will get uspet at anyone if they at least have a decent go at it. What you are advocating as OK is nothing short of rubbish. Lift your game.
There was a book brought out a while ago with all the standard and expected phrases a pilot would here in Class C,D, GAAP, and CTAF environments. However because of the ever changing aviation rules it is now incorrect and no one (to my knowledge) has made a new one yet. The AIP is a good guide for what should be in the radio calls, however in most cases you just need to listen to it to pick up what you need to say. Your opening phrases to ATC could almost be written down on a card where you just fill in the blanks (callsign, ATIS, etc) and even the expected response (if you know exactly what they are going to give you, normal at most airfields where the same type of flight is regularly conducted. At worst case plain English can be used, especially if the clearance is tricky and your not understanding what they want you to do.
