Tailwheel Vs Tricycle
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Dead right
Spin recovery used to be part of the endorsement for some aeroplanes, and most pilots were exposed to it. Cessnas and Pipers DO spin, despite what the sales people tell you, and many people have found out the hard way.
Do Boeings spin?? of course they do, if the nanny electronics fail.
A pilot who has never recovered from a spin would not know how to prevent one, and it is hard to believe we have commercial pilots who do not have this essential knowledge and experience.
Despite the complicated "matrix" and mumblings of "world's best practise".
Do Boeings spin?? of course they do, if the nanny electronics fail.
A pilot who has never recovered from a spin would not know how to prevent one, and it is hard to believe we have commercial pilots who do not have this essential knowledge and experience.
Despite the complicated "matrix" and mumblings of "world's best practise".
"Even if one does not keep it current, at least you have been there, done that. In case you really need to call on that infamous spin training, I can think of 4 fatal accidents in the last 2 years where spin training could and should have prevented the accidents..." (MP 14)
"A pilot who has never recovered from a spin would not know how to prevent one, and it is hard to believe we have commercial pilots who do not have this essential knowledge and experience" (Bushy)
For the record, I am both tail-dragger and aerobatics endorsed and sorry, but I just cannot see this.
I can appreciate that being competent with a tail-dragger or with spinning/aeros does make you a better pilots because of the enhanced aeroplane handling skills and confidence in what the aeroplane will do and what you can do with the aeroplane. However, I just cannot agree with "A pilot who has never recovered from a spin would not know how to prevent one" or (without knowing the details) "spin training could and should have prevented the accidents"
If full spin recovery were made compulsory it would be likely carried out in the likes of C152s and Tomahawks, both of which I have spun many times. Neither aircraft spins readily but require pro-spin control inputs. These inputs should never occur in an properly flown aeroplane unless the pilot deliberately does it.
Given the way both aircraft spin nose fairly well straight down and how they wind up very rapidly, my experience is that even a "spin proficient" pilot who "accidently" finds themselves in a spin at low level is going to "buy the farm".
I have only ever "accidently" entered a spin once in my flying career - and obviously I lived to tell the tale. I would argue that I was very proficient in spin recovery at the time, being in the middle of an aerobatics endorsement. I when up with a C150 Aerobat in one hand and an aerobatics manual in the other hand, intent on teaching myself snap rolls. The first one I tried caught me out with the suddeness and rapid rate of roll that I completely lost the plot and recovered from the subsequent spin with the loss of 1000+ feet. Fortunately my well developed survival instincts had me at 8000 ft AGL for the start of my aerobatic lesson.
The take home message for me from that experience is that if I every "accidently" spin an aeroplane at low level, the last word I will ever utter will be "shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit! "
MP14 - I would be interested to hear more details of the accidents to which you refer.
So will my experience in aerobatics and spin recovery be of value if ever I "accidently" find myself and the BE35 in a spin - I doubt it, but operating the aircraft confidently within its normal flight envelope will ensure that I never have to find out.
FTDC
"A pilot who has never recovered from a spin would not know how to prevent one, and it is hard to believe we have commercial pilots who do not have this essential knowledge and experience" (Bushy)
For the record, I am both tail-dragger and aerobatics endorsed and sorry, but I just cannot see this.
I can appreciate that being competent with a tail-dragger or with spinning/aeros does make you a better pilots because of the enhanced aeroplane handling skills and confidence in what the aeroplane will do and what you can do with the aeroplane. However, I just cannot agree with "A pilot who has never recovered from a spin would not know how to prevent one" or (without knowing the details) "spin training could and should have prevented the accidents"
If full spin recovery were made compulsory it would be likely carried out in the likes of C152s and Tomahawks, both of which I have spun many times. Neither aircraft spins readily but require pro-spin control inputs. These inputs should never occur in an properly flown aeroplane unless the pilot deliberately does it.
Given the way both aircraft spin nose fairly well straight down and how they wind up very rapidly, my experience is that even a "spin proficient" pilot who "accidently" finds themselves in a spin at low level is going to "buy the farm".
I have only ever "accidently" entered a spin once in my flying career - and obviously I lived to tell the tale. I would argue that I was very proficient in spin recovery at the time, being in the middle of an aerobatics endorsement. I when up with a C150 Aerobat in one hand and an aerobatics manual in the other hand, intent on teaching myself snap rolls. The first one I tried caught me out with the suddeness and rapid rate of roll that I completely lost the plot and recovered from the subsequent spin with the loss of 1000+ feet. Fortunately my well developed survival instincts had me at 8000 ft AGL for the start of my aerobatic lesson.
The take home message for me from that experience is that if I every "accidently" spin an aeroplane at low level, the last word I will ever utter will be "shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit! "
MP14 - I would be interested to hear more details of the accidents to which you refer.
So will my experience in aerobatics and spin recovery be of value if ever I "accidently" find myself and the BE35 in a spin - I doubt it, but operating the aircraft confidently within its normal flight envelope will ensure that I never have to find out.
FTDC
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Here's the take on it by one highly experienced tail dragger aviator. http://www.airbum.com/articles/Artic...lTraining.html
Join Date: Oct 2006
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MP14 - I would be interested to hear more details of the accidents to which you refer.
So will my experience in aerobatics and spin recovery be of value if ever I "accidently" find myself and the BE35 in a spin - I doubt it, but operating the aircraft confidently within its normal flight envelope will ensure that I never have to find out.
FTDC
So will my experience in aerobatics and spin recovery be of value if ever I "accidently" find myself and the BE35 in a spin - I doubt it, but operating the aircraft confidently within its normal flight envelope will ensure that I never have to find out.
FTDC
The biggest story of late, is that Tiger Moth accident literally a few hectares over from my home base. I spoke to someone who saw it happen (the local CFI), and to a friend of mine who is a highly experienced Tiger (all De Haviland types in fact) pilot - and spin training could have and should have prevented that accident.
I know, it is a vintage type, and most therefore don't fly types of this calibre, still, it happened.
I think it is just a question of having been there and done it, it should expand your own horizons. Well when I first flew solo, did my first loop, my first spin in training, first landing into Milford Sound, first FLWOP that would have been a 'sucessful' landing, being rated on the '52, first formated on another aeroplane, and about a couple of hundred thousand other significant learning exercises all did wonders for those horizons, and such a long, long way to go, is the most exciting part.
Silly Old Git
I cant believe anyone would get a type rating on a Tiger Moth WITHOUT spin training
Thats just BS, if there anything a Tiger does well its spin and with no provacation , shudder ,warning or beeper horn either.
And there is a no BS recovery procedure as well not just let go of the controls and its stops
Thats just BS, if there anything a Tiger does well its spin and with no provacation , shudder ,warning or beeper horn either.
And there is a no BS recovery procedure as well not just let go of the controls and its stops
Yes, I am obviously aware that stall/spin accidents continue to occur, and I dispair whenever I hear of such an event because every one that I am aware off was preventable.
My point here is that I don't believe that spin training would have saved them. Most occur at low level on climb out following take-off or during a go-round, or following a "beat up", or loss of control while manuvering for a forced landing etc.
FTDC
I cant believe anyone would get a type rating on a Tiger Moth WITHOUT spin training
Thats just BS, if there anything a Tiger does well its spin and with no provacation , shudder ,warning or beeper horn either.
And there is a no BS recovery proceedure as well not just let go of the controls and its stops
Thats just BS, if there anything a Tiger does well its spin and with no provacation , shudder ,warning or beeper horn either.
And there is a no BS recovery proceedure as well not just let go of the controls and its stops
The Tiger WILL bite if provoked just a little. It is really hard to fathom how someone can be PIC of a Tiger and not be competent in spin recovery.
FTDC
AustralianMade
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I put in a tender to buy the Scout that the Department of (whatever?), in WA, had in the trader last month.
I only tendered a lowish price as it was out of prop hours and down to around 200 ETR - evidently I was unsuccessful. Pity, as I reckon it would have been a good little plane and fun to learn in.
Good luck to whoever was fortunate enough to buy it.
I only tendered a lowish price as it was out of prop hours and down to around 200 ETR - evidently I was unsuccessful. Pity, as I reckon it would have been a good little plane and fun to learn in.
Good luck to whoever was fortunate enough to buy it.
