Point Cook position in the circuit pattern
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Point Cook position in the circuit pattern
I understand that ERSA Point Cook requires pilots operating in the circuit area to report their position as No.1 or No. 2,3,4 etc when turning base.
An experienced Melbourne airport air traffic controller expressed great concern at this local requirement and wondered if this all started with a well known flying school based at Point Cook that dominates the circuit.
With the majority of inexperienced ab-initio students operating daily at Point Cook and themselves having doubtful English second language "skills" how reliable can their reports be of position number in the circuit?
Historically since civil flying schools were permitted to operate at Point Cook, the circuits are regularly flown so wide that it is often impossible to spot aircraft on long downwind and final let alone try and count where you are with any certainty.
One false number count and the danger of relaxing thinking you are No. 2 etc will one day cause at the minimum, a near miss. Far better for circuit traffic to be forced to keep a good look-out for conflicting traffic rather than state a number which has a significant chance of being dead wrong.
An experienced Melbourne airport air traffic controller expressed great concern at this local requirement and wondered if this all started with a well known flying school based at Point Cook that dominates the circuit.
With the majority of inexperienced ab-initio students operating daily at Point Cook and themselves having doubtful English second language "skills" how reliable can their reports be of position number in the circuit?
Historically since civil flying schools were permitted to operate at Point Cook, the circuits are regularly flown so wide that it is often impossible to spot aircraft on long downwind and final let alone try and count where you are with any certainty.
One false number count and the danger of relaxing thinking you are No. 2 etc will one day cause at the minimum, a near miss. Far better for circuit traffic to be forced to keep a good look-out for conflicting traffic rather than state a number which has a significant chance of being dead wrong.
The requirement to report your position does not absolve you from the responsibility of see-and-avoid. It certainly doesn't replace the mandatory reporting requirements in the circuit, it supplements them. I can't see how the reporting of other aircraft numbers in the circuit would make anyone pay less attention. The calls still involve the circuit leg i.e base, and that should help SA. I think the numbers are there to alert you, i.e if someone calls "turning base, number 2" and you're on base with another infront of you, thats a trigger. The calls at YMMB at least (night circuits) were introduced after the '02 incident, and actually help in facilitating traffic that fly different shaped circuits. You can't really report what number you are in the pattern unless you've got your eyes outside, I think it encourages more vigilance and not the other way around. Just my opinion.
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You're right, the number sequence is a trigger for the following pilot. When someone calls "turning base, number 3" you will normally look ahead for all 3 aircraft, or atleast the aircraft turning base in front of you. If you know that you are number 3 and someone else calls number 3 it's very easy to sort out who's first then. It's a simple process. It would be difficult to get out of sequence.
Problem with the ERSA is that it seems anyone seemingly can make modifications these days and when a particular pilot or school starts using a procedure it slowly becomes the norm. An instructor I know started using the "number 1, number 2" calls at his airfield and within 6 months everyone was doing it. I guess pilot's must be like sheep...
Problem with the ERSA is that it seems anyone seemingly can make modifications these days and when a particular pilot or school starts using a procedure it slowly becomes the norm. An instructor I know started using the "number 1, number 2" calls at his airfield and within 6 months everyone was doing it. I guess pilot's must be like sheep...
