YSSY - Long Range Flow Trial

[Shitsu_Tonka]

ATS C3109/06
A TRIAL OF LONG RANGE TRAFFIC SEQUENCING WILL BE CONDUCTED
FOR FLIGHTS ARRIVING SYDNEY AIRPORT BTN 2000 - 2100
FLOW INSTRUCTIONS MAY BE ISSUED TO THESE ACFT UP TO 1000NM FROM DEST
THERE WILL BE NO CHG TO EXISTING PRIORITIES
TIMES ISSUED MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHG FOR OPR REASONS
FURTHER DETAILS AVBL ON [phone]
FROM 09 031800 TO 09 162100

Wondering from the users experience with this how it has been going?

My understanding is that a long range (strategic) flow / slot system is envisaged for BN/SY/ML in the future - to the point of giving pushback times.

[cribble]

How are YSSY MET/ATC folks going to determine which will be the max crosswind/limiting downwind runway when the chaps are still 1000 miles away?

[SM4 Pirate]

Cribble, educated guess based on forcast; if it's wrong then it just doesn't work that well... but at least it should be a stream of traffic, not a gaggle of dead heats all punching the 6am curfew...

****su, it has it's problems from what we've seen, the occassional slot lost and the WX did cause issues on at least one day, ie 25only available not the programmed 34 parallels; a couple of aircraft have accepted the times and simply not complied, interesting...

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Cribble,

It's a good question, and what LTOP mode will be in use, and what aircraft are going to taxi that are 100/200/300 miles away during the interim period?

One of the real issues that needs to be sorted for all this to work is real-time dynamic winds aloft data being uploaded from the aircraft to BOM and/or in to the ATS system. Have often seen aircraft refuse a crossing time as unachievable because of out of date data - and vice versa, i.e. ATC asking for the impossible.

[Duff Man]

****su's right - this should be taken care of with scheduled departure times, or at least scheduled arrival times. Airservices can do a bit (such as this trial) to reduce lower level holding by absorbing delays in the cruise ... presumably saving fuel. But the real saving would be by the airport operator negotiating with the airlines scheduled/staggered arrival times.

Anyway it'll all be moot at yssy come daylight saving.

PS - why is this in the GA Forum?

[jumpuFOKKERjump]

why is this in the GA Forum?

Do you mean the GA & Questions Forum? Looks like a question to me.

I got to play with this for the first time last night. Delays were 10-20 minutes, so most seemed to be steaming inbound at normal CRZ with 'PTF UNABLE' & 'MIN' (& variations on that theme) written on 'em. Saw one manage to lose 10 minutes from half way across the Bight, so that must have saved somebody some circle work.

[SM4 Pirate]

Saw one manage to lose 10 minutes from half way across the Bight, so that must have saved somebody some circle work.

But was it required? ie was the aircraft 34R capable, and did it get sequenced for 34L with an unnecessary 10 minute delay? It's a trial, there is much to learn.

Will LTOP kill strategic sequencing? Noise sharing modes can be altered when delays exceed 20 minutes, but how do you prove that if you're delaying aircraft on the ground 600NM away? The realities of LTOP and strategic flow may be overall reduced landing slots through increased use of LTOP single stream modes; how efficient...

It's facinates me that AA must be more efficient and deliver better results to industry less delays etc., yet political documents and decisions really udermine all of that (more delays and less safe runway modes, ie landing/departing with a healthy cross wind with a perfectly good into wind runway available).