For all you F22 fans out there!
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That's ok, I only said that as a matter of principle, you know, marking out my territory. I'd p!ss on my keyboard but it tends to get expensive.
At $130KK a pop, and with cash already sunk into the JSF program, I'd say dong-beating is about all the RAFF will be allowed to do with the F-22.
Would be nice, though. As a tax-payer, I give it the nod.
Let's buy 50 of them and stick it to the, er, um, "brothers" to the north.
At $130KK a pop, and with cash already sunk into the JSF program, I'd say dong-beating is about all the RAFF will be allowed to do with the F-22.
Would be nice, though. As a tax-payer, I give it the nod.
Let's buy 50 of them and stick it to the, er, um, "brothers" to the north.
accelerates like you wouldn't believe.
Originally Posted by Aussie
Anyone willing to take a punt as to the first country outside the US to operate this piece of machinery?
Aussie
Aussie
Perhaps Israel within a rapid time frame; if Iran keeps up it's rhetoric and new air defences around it's nuclear facilities reduce the probability of Israeli success in it's current structure.
Australia? If the pro JSF mafia realise they are only ever going to get about 60 JSF's anyway ( especially with a change of governement ). Blow half the budget on a small number of F22 and what's leftover will easily make up another 40 JSF's. And we will be able to crew those numbers.
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This will make you laugh or clap
Read in the NZ herald that National government is trying to talk Labour into jumping onto Ozzy order of the 35 and get some. re-instating the strike force
Read in the NZ herald that National government is trying to talk Labour into jumping onto Ozzy order of the 35 and get some. re-instating the strike force
Originally Posted by weasil
I got an up close visit with an F22 at Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio last year. That is one beautiful aircraft. And accelerates like you wouldn't believe.
QUESTION:
One quick follow-up on that; the US Congress this week or last week, the House passed an amendment that said the US may start selling F-22’s, exporting them to other countries. Is Australia thinking about buying any fighter jets from the US besides Joint Strike Fighter, such as the F-22?
DR NELSON:
Well, it remains to be seen whether the F-22 Raptor would, in fact, be released by the United States, but the fact is that whilst it is a superb aircraft and arguably the finest fighter aircraft in the world, Australia is retiring its F-111 bombers and upgrading its F/A-18 fighters through the transition period. Australia needs both fighter and strike capability. The Joint Strike Fighter combines both. For a large defence force such as the United States obviously, you can have a fleet of aircraft which includes F22 Raptors and a range of aircraft with strike capability. We’re prepared to make the largest investment we’ve ever made in air combat capability in terms of some $16 billion of investment, but Australia is not in a position to be able to buy F-22A Raptors, even if they were to be sold by the United States, and then also buy strike capability as well. We believe that, in fact, all of the information that is available to me and certainly all of the technical data, leads me to the conclusion that the Joint Strike Fighter is the correct aircraft for us. It relies on and will be supported by Wedgetail airborne early warning command and control systems, multi-role fuel tankers, tactical radar air defence systems, and a variety of weaponry, which will see it cover all of our needs for at least 30 years.
Gnadenburg:
In 10-15 years time, probably after an expensive upgrade, the JSF project will hopefully be mature enough to deliver it's paper promises; including networked integration within the ADF. Around the time period of JSF maturation, the RAN ( subject project success ) will have sophisticated anti-air warfare destroyers entering service, which, like JSF, slot nicely into a US military structure.
But in the meantime, our air defence needs supposedly can be met by under 40 upgraded F18's. If our eventual air defence requirments dictate 100 JSF's and RAN air warfare destroyers, isn't that a significant underlap in capability and a defence gamble?
One quick follow-up on that; the US Congress this week or last week, the House passed an amendment that said the US may start selling F-22’s, exporting them to other countries. Is Australia thinking about buying any fighter jets from the US besides Joint Strike Fighter, such as the F-22?
DR NELSON:
Well, it remains to be seen whether the F-22 Raptor would, in fact, be released by the United States, but the fact is that whilst it is a superb aircraft and arguably the finest fighter aircraft in the world, Australia is retiring its F-111 bombers and upgrading its F/A-18 fighters through the transition period. Australia needs both fighter and strike capability. The Joint Strike Fighter combines both. For a large defence force such as the United States obviously, you can have a fleet of aircraft which includes F22 Raptors and a range of aircraft with strike capability. We’re prepared to make the largest investment we’ve ever made in air combat capability in terms of some $16 billion of investment, but Australia is not in a position to be able to buy F-22A Raptors, even if they were to be sold by the United States, and then also buy strike capability as well. We believe that, in fact, all of the information that is available to me and certainly all of the technical data, leads me to the conclusion that the Joint Strike Fighter is the correct aircraft for us. It relies on and will be supported by Wedgetail airborne early warning command and control systems, multi-role fuel tankers, tactical radar air defence systems, and a variety of weaponry, which will see it cover all of our needs for at least 30 years.
Gnadenburg:
In 10-15 years time, probably after an expensive upgrade, the JSF project will hopefully be mature enough to deliver it's paper promises; including networked integration within the ADF. Around the time period of JSF maturation, the RAN ( subject project success ) will have sophisticated anti-air warfare destroyers entering service, which, like JSF, slot nicely into a US military structure.
But in the meantime, our air defence needs supposedly can be met by under 40 upgraded F18's. If our eventual air defence requirments dictate 100 JSF's and RAN air warfare destroyers, isn't that a significant underlap in capability and a defence gamble?
Evertonian
But isn't the USAF structure based on the F22 escorting JSF's into conflict??? Does he mean that we would have to have JSF's CAP mode, protecting JSF's in strike mode???
Quite a few years ago, they refitted the F22 weapons bay so that it could carry ordnance to drop on targets. It had to be seen as an aircraft that did more than just act in an air to air role.
The only drawback is the price. Hands down, it whoops all over a JSF.
F-22 vs JSF:
More fuel = greater range/endurance
Sh*t tin faster
WAY more manoueverable in the fighting arena
2 engines
F22 is just as functional as the JSF with our new tankers and Wedgetail AWACS.
Having flown the F22 sim, the things it does will leave your jaw swinging.
The only drawback is the price. Hands down, it whoops all over a JSF.
F-22 vs JSF:
More fuel = greater range/endurance
Sh*t tin faster
WAY more manoueverable in the fighting arena
2 engines
F22 is just as functional as the JSF with our new tankers and Wedgetail AWACS.
Having flown the F22 sim, the things it does will leave your jaw swinging.
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Originally Posted by TruBlu351
F-22 vs JSF:
More fuel = greater range/endurance
More fuel = greater range/endurance
Originally Posted by TruBlu351
Having flown the F22 sim, the things it does will leave your jaw swinging.
But, so was the F-15 compared the F/A-18 25 years ago, and we took the right path then. IF, and I repeat, IF JSF can be made to work right from the get go, it's the right choice for us again. The F-22 is a fighter which can drop bombs. The JSF, on paper, is a true multi-role strike fighter which can turn its hand to A2A or A2G with equal adeptness.
We'll know how JSF is tracking before we sign off on them, and if things go pear shaped, there are other options in place, INCLUDING the F-22.
Magoo
Originally Posted by Magoodotcom
But, so was the F-15 compared the F/A-18 25 years ago, and we took the right path then.Magoo
McDonnel Douglas proposed a bombed up option on the F15A; the Israelis did their own similar modification ( used to good affect on the PLO HQ raid in Tunisia ). The F15E the final evolution. The RAAF operated the unsuitable Mirage well into the eighties until Hornets available in numbers. But this a different gamble to soley operating Hornets until 2015 ( during the Mirage swansong we still had the F111 peaking as a deterrent capability ).
The total JSF package ( numbers, integration etc ) could be 15 years away. 100 JSF's pie in the sky too- how will the RAAF expand it's fighter infrastructure from a Hornet fleet to double that number of JSF's? Not even considering likely cost blow outs.
Perhaps accepting a 60ish fighter RAAF structure wise considering inevitable manpower, infrastructure and force multiplier restrictions already appearing within Defence. And for 12 billion US in todays dollars, that would surely get you 24 Raptors, with Hornets operating until a smaller JSF force ( say 40 ) operational.
But perhaps we can just wait until 12 billion US buys you around 60 JSF's anyways!
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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er, um, "brothers" to the north.
I remember hearing ages ago that their standards/serviceability etc really was'nt all that good.
