EFATO - Priorities

[multi_engined]

I am not sure whether this is posted in the correct forum, could a mod please move to the appropriate forum if required.

I just have a quick question about GA flying.

If you have an engine failure after takeoff, say at 200-300ft and you do not have sufficent distance to put the aircraft back down onto the runway your perform EFATO, lower the nose to maintain best glide speed etc.

What I want to know is because you only have seconds until you reach ground level, would you bother to quickly check the mixture control, fuel cutoff lever and make a mayday call, or would you just be concentrating on maintaining a best glide speed and putting in down in the biggest open area you could find for the best impact.

Regards,
ME

[gaunty]

My 2 cents says,

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

You said it;

ust be concentrating on maintaining a best glide speed and putting in down in the biggest open area you could find for the best impact.

You are only interested in the LEAST WORST SPOT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU.

AND my old instructor used to say keep FLYING the thing until all the noise stops and the dust settles. I.E. Maintain controlled flight EVERYTHING else, is secondary, throttles, mixture and props, fuel only take and instant and if you have the time then by all means tell someone, but don't be distracted by them.

[Three Blader]

EFATO

Losing an engine At 200 -300ft-- you might as well say 100 -200-- ft , just pick the best possible place in front of you qucikly check your fuel sysytem pump on change tank if this dosnt work land the best way you can and walk away from it

[djpil]

This is from the FAA "Wings" program a few years ago:
http://www.ozaeros.com/articles/WINGS110.htm

[Captain Sand Dune]

FTFA!!
The "WTF" factor will take up ~100FT. I'd be concentrating on maintaining glide IAS and looking for somewhere half decent to put down.
In any case, your emergency brief should have covered the locations of the best emergency landing areas.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Exactly.. brief the altitudes and what action you'll take. That way you've decided what you'll do if you

If you have an engine failure after takeoff, say at 200-300ft and you do not have sufficent distance to put the aircraft back down onto the runway

before it even happens!

[Aussie]

Thats why we always give a pre-takeoff brief before we go!

Youve already talked through what your going to do in the event of...!!!

Aussie

[bfisk]

I include a turn/no turn altitude in my pre takeoff briefing. For the C172RG the minimum altitude to turn would usually be around 700 ft (DA ~ 2000' and near max gross). I also brief which emergency fields i know will be avaliable. I.e.:

"I will take off, but please do say something if anything is unsafe. Engine failure on takeoff roll; close throttle, maintain directional control, come to a stop. Engine failure after rotation; pitch down and land straight ahead, check gear still down. Engine failure with no more runway below 700, make shallow turns and execute forced landing, we have this, that and the other field. Above 700 we may turn around to opposite runway, taxiway or grass. Best glide is 70."

Then I ask for questions and comments on that briefing, before I contine with a general briefing:

"In case of an actual emergency I will contine to fly the airplane unless you say my controls, and I acknowledge. Whoever is not flying will do checklists and radios without being prompted for it. Before a forced touchdown, we will shut down as much as possible, and unlatch the doors".


Does that sound like a sensible briefing?

[Centaurus]

I will take off, but please do say something if anything is unsafe

Define "Unsafe". One man's unsafe is another mans "no problem". The list is endless. A momentary flicker of an oil pressure gauge...is that unsafe? A cylinder head temp needle suddenly flicking to full scale hot....unsafe or instrument error? If flying solo, do you talk to yourself out aloud reminding you of all the things you are scanning, and repeat to yourself all the different altitudes after lift off where if something happens you will have in your mind exactly what you will do as the situation changes every few seconds of climb? You may as well have a nicely coloured card stuck on the instrument panel with graduations every 100 ft of altitude with the plan of action at each 100 ft. There is far too much nonsense taught in the so called Before take off safety brief. Just blast off and handle the situation as it occurs rather than go on and on

[The Bunglerat]

There are far fewer pilots who have pranged an aeroplane by not completing the checks, than there are those who pranged because they stopped flying the plane.

In a situation like this, nothing should ever take precedence over first and foremost maintaining positive control of your aircraft.

[control snatch]

Simple: Fly the aeroplane first

If you have time to do nothing else, then chances are you will walk away from the landing if you just look out the front, fly the plane and thats all.

Putting out a mayday call is not going to improve your chances of a safe landing.

[White_line_fever]

Originally Posted by bfisk

"I will take off, but please do say something if anything is unsafe. Engine failure on takeoff roll; close throttle, maintain directional control, come to a stop. Engine failure after rotation; pitch down and land straight ahead, check gear still down. Engine failure with no more runway below 700, make shallow turns and execute forced landing, we have this, that and the other field. Above 700 we may turn around to opposite runway, taxiway or grass. Best glide is 70."

Then I ask for questions and comments on that briefing, before I contine with a general briefing:


Does that sound like a sensible briefing?

I dont know about everyone else but i always got taught never ever think about turning back to the runway(........I will pick a field to the left or right within 30 degrees is what i use), many a pilot has come to grief after attempting to turn back to the airport. Otherwise brief sounds good.

definately agree with other people saying "fly the plane" and not worry about the mayday, the controller will see you going down there is no need to tell them what they are seeing especially when your busy doing other stuff like not trying to kill yourself!!

WLF

[ZH-127]

Originally Posted by gaunty

My 2 cents says,

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

You said it;


You are only interested in the LEAST WORST SPOT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU.

AND my old instructor used to say keep FLYING the thing until all the noise stops and the dust settles. I.E. Maintain controlled flight EVERYTHING else, is secondary, throttles, mixture and props, fuel only take and instant and if you have the time then by all means tell someone, but don't be distracted by them.

When practicing EFATO's for your PPL is this the case too? I mean, do you have to give priority to flying the aircraft? If you cant get the checks done in on time, would you still be auth'd for solo?

In the VGS we had to get all the checks in. Yes, flying was no 1 priority, but the checks also HAD to be done.

FIRMP that is.

ZH-127

[ZH-127]

Originally Posted by Centaurus

Define "Unsafe". One man's unsafe is another mans "no problem". The list is endless. A momentary flicker of an oil pressure gauge...is that unsafe? A cylinder head temp needle suddenly flicking to full scale hot....unsafe or instrument error? If flying solo, do you talk to yourself out aloud reminding you of all the things you are scanning, and repeat to yourself all the different altitudes after lift off where if something happens you will have in your mind exactly what you will do as the situation changes every few seconds of climb? You may as well have a nicely coloured card stuck on the instrument panel with graduations every 100 ft of altitude with the plan of action at each 100 ft. There is far too much nonsense taught in the so called Before take off safety brief. Just blast off and handle the situation as it occurs rather than go on and on

TOTAL UTTER RUBBISH!!

http://www.aircentre.com.au/aircraft/efato.htm

Read that!

You should ALWAYS have a plan for emergencies before take off. PPPPPP! Know what that means? "Perfect practice prevents piss poor performance."

Climbing out and calling out your heights, (perhaps not out loud but in your head) is a good way of ensuring that if it does to T/U then you have some plans in your head. Remember, at low alltitude EFATO, you only have 30 seconds before you reach terra firma again. Every second counts!

[Ratshit]

Originally Posted by multi_engined

If you have an engine failure after takeoff, say at 200-300ft and you do not have sufficent distance to put the aircraft back down onto the runway your perform EFATO, lower the nose to maintain best glide speed etc

ME

You don't actually say if you have one donk or two??

Single engine - just park it - try to turn all the **** off before you hit
Twin - well now - depends on a whole bunch of stuff

Either way you will need clean undies.

R

[Led Zep]

What's said about twins? When one engine fails the other will safely carry you to the scene of the accident?

[ZH-127]

Originally Posted by Led Zep

What's said about twins? When one engine fails the other will safely carry you to the scene of the accident?

Hehe something like that.

To all those guys out there who think that its a "puffs way to fly" by calling out your checks as you climb out, or that planning in your mind prior to departure is a waste of time.

Read this: http://www.aircentre.com.au/aircraft/efato.htm

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by ZH-127

When practicing EFATO's for your PPL is this the case too? I mean, do you have to give priority to flying the aircraft? If you cant get the checks done in on time, would you still be auth'd for solo?

Yes you should give priority to flying the aircraft.

PPL EFATOs are generally done at an altitude that gives you sufficient time to find a paddock, set up to land somewhere in it, and conduct your checks. If you can't get through your checks, then you may not know them well enough. But always, always, fly the plane first.

In the real deal, it is no good having accomplished the checks, only to stall and spin in because you weren't flying the aeroplane.

In a PPL test, it is no good having accomplished the checks only to miss your field or have the testing officer take over because your were getting dangerously slow.

[mattyj]

Don't hang on to best glide speed for too long..when you are at 200 feet you should be starting to think about getting it back to just above stall speed before you hit the trees..remember..70kt is over 100km/hr

[ZH-127]

Originally Posted by AerocatS2A

Yes you should give priority to flying the aircraft.

PPL EFATOs are generally done at an altitude that gives you sufficient time to find a paddock, set up to land somewhere in it, and conduct your checks. If you can't get through your checks, then you may not know them well enough. But always, always, fly the plane first.

In the real deal, it is no good having accomplished the checks, only to stall and spin in because you weren't flying the aeroplane.

In a PPL test, it is no good having accomplished the checks only to miss your field or have the testing officer take over because your were getting dangerously slow.

Fair play.

Just asked as last time i did my training massive importance was placed on the actual drills. Sure, flying the plane is important, but until you demonstrated that you could do the drills, REGARDLESS of height.. you werent auth'd for solo flight. I.e Even if the engine goes at 100ft, you HAVE TO DO THE CHECKS prior to touching down. If you cant or dont... no solo flight.