Pilot Industrial Action in Townsville?
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Have been away for a few days but in the mean time have been lucky enough to chat with a few ex Mac drivers, some very recently others from a time ago. There seems to be more than the usual "stick it to the man" arguement. Don't shoot the messenger but this is a kind of brief run down from a few of the conversations I have had with those ex Mac drivers.
"Some" pilots off 402's/4's C310's etc will sell their grandmother and knife their best mate in the back to get that twin turbine > 5700 kg job. They apply for the job, tell management in the interview that "I'm your man" and then in no matter of time at all join the hate management, hate the aircraft, hate the routes they fly bandwagon. If you didn't like any of it in the first place why then apply and ask / beg them for a job? And, in same instance, if you don't like it, leave. But that doesn't make it right.....
Similarly the employer buys aircraft, flies a route structure etc to maximise profits, and is always seeking ways to lower costs and improve the profit margin. Why should the pilots, especially if they have a reasonable case (and it seems they do), not do the same? It's called good business I would think. Like I said before if "they" want to market themselves, promote themselves and act like an airline then why not at a minimum pay their pilots under that award structure. If it quacks like a duck....
The Horizon thing.... not too sure of all that but Mac did "come to the rescue" of that operation it seems, but let's be honest, only as they saw a way of making money, not out of the goodness of their corporate heart. It didn't work but at least they tried and kept many pilots in work for a lot longer than otherwise. The Horizon EBA was something to behold compared to the GA Award the Mac drivers were / are getting. I understand that the person who put together that EBA is also the same who put together the former Kendall EBA. (Anyone know if this is true?? not that it really matters). Wages can be one of the higher expenses of most companies. At a pure guess it must be considered as contributing, perhaps, to the outcome of Kendalls and Horizon? Just unfounded speculation which someone may be able to qualify better. Smart girl (I believe?) for getting that EBA accepted by management or dumb management for accepting it. That's another arguement.......
Lastly, so I've been made aware of, what of the cadets at Mac? I'll bet they are not going to want to be a part of any industrial action!! PLEASE do not turn that comment into a chance for a cadet bashing scenario. Bored to death of it from previous threads.
"Some" pilots off 402's/4's C310's etc will sell their grandmother and knife their best mate in the back to get that twin turbine > 5700 kg job. They apply for the job, tell management in the interview that "I'm your man" and then in no matter of time at all join the hate management, hate the aircraft, hate the routes they fly bandwagon. If you didn't like any of it in the first place why then apply and ask / beg them for a job? And, in same instance, if you don't like it, leave. But that doesn't make it right.....
Similarly the employer buys aircraft, flies a route structure etc to maximise profits, and is always seeking ways to lower costs and improve the profit margin. Why should the pilots, especially if they have a reasonable case (and it seems they do), not do the same? It's called good business I would think. Like I said before if "they" want to market themselves, promote themselves and act like an airline then why not at a minimum pay their pilots under that award structure. If it quacks like a duck....
The Horizon thing.... not too sure of all that but Mac did "come to the rescue" of that operation it seems, but let's be honest, only as they saw a way of making money, not out of the goodness of their corporate heart. It didn't work but at least they tried and kept many pilots in work for a lot longer than otherwise. The Horizon EBA was something to behold compared to the GA Award the Mac drivers were / are getting. I understand that the person who put together that EBA is also the same who put together the former Kendall EBA. (Anyone know if this is true?? not that it really matters). Wages can be one of the higher expenses of most companies. At a pure guess it must be considered as contributing, perhaps, to the outcome of Kendalls and Horizon? Just unfounded speculation which someone may be able to qualify better. Smart girl (I believe?) for getting that EBA accepted by management or dumb management for accepting it. That's another arguement.......
Lastly, so I've been made aware of, what of the cadets at Mac? I'll bet they are not going to want to be a part of any industrial action!! PLEASE do not turn that comment into a chance for a cadet bashing scenario. Bored to death of it from previous threads.
Last edited by TopTup; 23rd Feb 2006 at 06:14.
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Wages are always the highest expense of any company and look at the outcome of Kendalls and Horizon?
How much fuel ($) does a SAAB or Death Pencil burn per hour? How much does a crew earn per hour.
Let's stay focussed.
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Fair point on reflection, especially when considering the aviation industry, ie running costs and expenses (aircraft costs per, and so on).
And last I checked I was staying focussed. I don't want to post random babble but sought some info before posting on the situation. Costs and salaries / wages are directly relevant to this entire thread I would think. I will edit the above incorrect satatement, so relax.
.....although in sticking with many of the PPRuNe posts it won't be long till someone gets abusive, personal or hijacks the topic.
And last I checked I was staying focussed. I don't want to post random babble but sought some info before posting on the situation. Costs and salaries / wages are directly relevant to this entire thread I would think. I will edit the above incorrect satatement, so relax.
.....although in sticking with many of the PPRuNe posts it won't be long till someone gets abusive, personal or hijacks the topic.
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Ha ha! Yer M@cair made -$5M ! 
2 different people made the Horizon and Kendells' EBAs'....
No girl at Horizon put the EBA through.
Had their chance for a good EBA, M@cair boys have what they have as a result .
Horizon pitfall was one great CEO leaving and one bikkies junior trying to play CEO when the good one left.......
If they are serious, they have enough contacts in the TWU. However, there is a big division in the ranks. Cadets are bright eyed and bushy tailed, the others are starting to realise or know what a days pay is worth..............
2 different people made the Horizon and Kendells' EBAs'....
No girl at Horizon put the EBA through.Had their chance for a good EBA, M@cair boys have what they have as a result .
Horizon pitfall was one great CEO leaving and one bikkies junior trying to play CEO when the good one left.......
If they are serious, they have enough contacts in the TWU. However, there is a big division in the ranks. Cadets are bright eyed and bushy tailed, the others are starting to realise or know what a days pay is worth..............
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A shrinking group at TSV
What I herd was the whole pilot group is falling apart….
At the start it was all for one and one for all but now, pilot group seem to be shrinking at a very rapid rate.
Just glad I’m not with M@cair
At the start it was all for one and one for all but now, pilot group seem to be shrinking at a very rapid rate.
Just glad I’m not with M@cair
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REX, ANSETT, QRA, REGIONAL PAC, ALLIANCE????
Well who is it gonna be. Remember the days of Flight West and Sunnies chasing each other around QLD, like the big brother QF and AN. When will airline reform come to Townsville, Cairns or Brisbane? So many operators, all squabling over so many routes. When will it become profitable to run a queensland airline, not owned by QF.
If there is any hope for the Mac Chaps, at least the GA award increases to the safety net next month. EBA no closer than 2 years ago. It is still proud to sell itself as the Largest Queensland Regional Airline, but just can't bear to part with a Regional Award. I don't see any joy for any newcomers, especially with it joining the pay-in game. $10k for a Metro plus a GA award, or $8k for a Dash 8 with the QF group, a regional award and the perks. It seems obvious to choose. Having said that, it has outlived all the rumors over the years since the Horizon debarcle, and still pays its drivers every month, even if its below the industry standard. It is consistant. There are a lot of good guys at Mac, and many are proud of their airline. It is a divided group though. Mortgages, next job-itis, families. It doesn't seem an environment to be a group and one voice. Maybe the "don't like it then leave" option will be the only thing left. But what for the newbee's who are forced to sign a crappy EB"A" if they want a job. "Agreement", ey?? Thanks Mr Howard. Our industry bleeds....AGAIN and AGAIN......
I feel for them, especially if it Mcdownsizes with competition.
A takeover.......a buyout.....is there gonna be a takeover.........?
REX, ANSETT, QRA, REGIONAL PACIFIC, ALLIANCE...........someone's gotta wonnit !!! Give them hope!!!!
If there is any hope for the Mac Chaps, at least the GA award increases to the safety net next month. EBA no closer than 2 years ago. It is still proud to sell itself as the Largest Queensland Regional Airline, but just can't bear to part with a Regional Award. I don't see any joy for any newcomers, especially with it joining the pay-in game. $10k for a Metro plus a GA award, or $8k for a Dash 8 with the QF group, a regional award and the perks. It seems obvious to choose. Having said that, it has outlived all the rumors over the years since the Horizon debarcle, and still pays its drivers every month, even if its below the industry standard. It is consistant. There are a lot of good guys at Mac, and many are proud of their airline. It is a divided group though. Mortgages, next job-itis, families. It doesn't seem an environment to be a group and one voice. Maybe the "don't like it then leave" option will be the only thing left. But what for the newbee's who are forced to sign a crappy EB"A" if they want a job. "Agreement", ey?? Thanks Mr Howard. Our industry bleeds....AGAIN and AGAIN......
I feel for them, especially if it Mcdownsizes with competition.
A takeover.......a buyout.....is there gonna be a takeover.........?
REX, ANSETT, QRA, REGIONAL PACIFIC, ALLIANCE...........someone's gotta wonnit !!! Give them hope!!!!
I don't see any joy for any newcomers, especially with it joining the pay-in game. $10k for a Metro plus a GA award
Doesn't 10k for a Metro F/O endorsement sound way too much?
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Lookout.... Everyone's favorite American idiot returns!
Missed your most amusing and sometimes informative posts Chris.
But wait, in your last post there's no mention of your 25,000 hour
blue eyed blonde dirt bikes.. or your 3 kid jet command ballroom
dancing brick house with 10 ski resort internet businesses ... and not
forgetting the 106 type endorsement airline instructing heaven job
with Paris Hiltons.
The ego must be a bit jet lagged today mate
God Bless America!!
Missed your most amusing and sometimes informative posts Chris.
But wait, in your last post there's no mention of your 25,000 hour
blue eyed blonde dirt bikes.. or your 3 kid jet command ballroom
dancing brick house with 10 ski resort internet businesses ... and not
forgetting the 106 type endorsement airline instructing heaven job
with Paris Hiltons.
The ego must be a bit jet lagged today mate
God Bless America!!
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Hi there Chris
perhaps you would like to enlighten us? Why is a training bond such a bad thing, especially if it is enforced inside "reasonable" parameters?
After all, it's usually the endorsement collectors ( perhaps you? ) that return no service for an employers investment; that have called for companies to introduce such measures.
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perhaps you would like to enlighten us? Why is a training bond such a bad thing, especially if it is enforced inside "reasonable" parameters?
After all, it's usually the endorsement collectors ( perhaps you? ) that return no service for an employers investment; that have called for companies to introduce such measures.
bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz
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A response that could only be written by somebody who paid for a job..or failed CPL Meteorology after being at Sydney Tech for six weeks? So do you ever think of the operation that gave birth to the crap you call a job now? Do you ever pay any respect to the families of VH-HOX as you cross over Coffs Harbour and look down over Sawtell? How many hours was Tony on duty for? Who made the decision to use it for single pilot IFR RPT without DME?
Ohhh, Beach King..yes! Four posts and you are making me feel even more famous by mentioning me yet again! I should call the Hollywood tabloids!
So how are things at Sea sick Air? Is anyone actually making any money there...or are you just "messing about in boats"? What about your company history? Do you pay your respects to the dead as well?
Ohhh, Beach King..yes! Four posts and you are making me feel even more famous by mentioning me yet again! I should call the Hollywood tabloids!
So how are things at Sea sick Air? Is anyone actually making any money there...or are you just "messing about in boats"? What about your company history? Do you pay your respects to the dead as well?
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 9th Mar 2006 at 03:14.
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Chris.. you've got it all wrong!
We love ya mate. You're an entertainment machine!! We found the advanced search function of pprune the other day and read every one
of your posts. Great stuff. My Missus (wife.. if you don't know what a missus is) reckons it was better than watching "Blue Heelers" and "All Saints" back to back (popular Australian TV shows on channel 7 if you don't know).
I actually agree with some of what you post, but unfortunately young blokes (and girls) are going to have to get used to paying for endorsements while they climb over each to try and recoup some of the huge outlays they (or their family) have forked out to get a better paid job. Until the number of students decrease and airlines have to start cadet programs, pay for job will continue to be the norm.
Hey Chris... what's with the "sea" thing.. Most Australian pilots know where brigalow suckers grow.
We love ya mate. You're an entertainment machine!! We found the advanced search function of pprune the other day and read every one
of your posts. Great stuff. My Missus (wife.. if you don't know what a missus is) reckons it was better than watching "Blue Heelers" and "All Saints" back to back (popular Australian TV shows on channel 7 if you don't know).
I actually agree with some of what you post, but unfortunately young blokes (and girls) are going to have to get used to paying for endorsements while they climb over each to try and recoup some of the huge outlays they (or their family) have forked out to get a better paid job. Until the number of students decrease and airlines have to start cadet programs, pay for job will continue to be the norm.
Hey Chris... what's with the "sea" thing.. Most Australian pilots know where brigalow suckers grow.
