Too Many Pilots & Instructors???

[novicef]

Am I being starry eyed about wanting to be a commercial pilot?? After reading the various responses about the GA Award and Instructor salaries I might have to reconsider my options. Although I would love to fly commercially. If its difficult to live and the only way I can survive is by working 2 jobs because either there isnt enough flying or the rate of pay is dismal. Whats the point?? Itmakes me very sad that what I really hoped for might not happen.

[tinpis]

You may have to sacrifice a few things is all.
Dont give up
Who needs a regular job a house and a car anyway?

[Trained Monkey]

or food, clothing, or medicine?

[Daniel Beurich]

Its true its difficult to get to the left seat of a Boeing or Airbus, or even a job in Charter, but its not impossible. Like any good job in the world it jsut takes peserverance, and dedication. People who walk into it with the wrong attitude dont get anywhere. If you realy want to fly, and you do decide to go ahead with it, then dedicate yourself to it. Because theres no bigger waste then after spending all the money and time getting your licence, and then throwing it all away because times are rough. Once you get your CPL the first few hundred hours are hard, and you may have to live life tough but once you get the hours up, life just gets easier. But remember, the dedication, and study never stops, no matter where you go in the Pilot Business. Keep trying and you will get there.

Daniel

[bullamakanka]

Its a long hard road and you definately learn the art of patience. Like DB says the study never seems to stop.

I left the money job for GA and hopefully higher and have had the time of my life.

Would not change a thing.

The most valuable thing I was told by when starting out was, "you are choosing a lifestyle not a job"

Pretty accurate too.

[Vitamin G]

DB and Bulla have it. Aviation is a Lifestyle NOT a job. I've been working in the industry for a year now and the first couple of hundred hours are hard work, although I wouldn't have it any other way!!! I've experienced so many things that other people my age are oblivious to.

Not every office has a 360 Degree view from the window!!

Everyone makes sacrifices in their life, as long as you enjoy what you are doing, its worth it!!

Best of Luck,

VG

[neville_nobody]

I think it is only worth it if you make it to the job you want and can make some decent money from it. The industry has changed dramatically in the past 6 years. The salaries are falling dramatically and now you have to pay to get endorsements.

So you flog your guts out in GA for 3-5 years earning enough to get by, then you get into a Qantas regional. You now pay about $10 000 for an endorsement you have to cover food & rent during training, then you get paid in the low $40 000's. Same in Virgin & Jetstar but you will get paid a bit more. QF these days will be shipping you off to Singapore to live. Fine if you're single, what if you have 3 kids and a wife??

5 years ago Kendell were paying RJ captains almost as much as Jetstar are paying their captains today. National Jet took a pay cut and paid for endorsements just to keep their contract.

Whilst flying is a great job you have to consider how much you are willing to sacrifice just to get the job you want. If you are in it to make alot of coin then you are certainly in the wrong business these days!!

[pakeha-boy]

Novice....no pain no gain,my advice to you,if the desire is strong then have a real go at it.I would disagree with Neville about the money issue,to a point.

I dont believe I am one of the lucky ones,earning 6 figures and working about 6-8 months of the year is nothing to scoff at,that is the lucky part.The road has not been easy,but I consider what I do a real priviledge,and I believe most of us that have made it to the "Majors" would say the same.Much has been invested in time, money, effort and there is a whole list of others.

Aviation is very cyclic,the industry has been through some very tumultuous times,and will continue to do so. Most of us(except for the silver spoon boys)have spent our lives flying pieces of sh%t,working for some very dubious outfits,this is not the norm,but there are many.They know you need the time,ie beggers cant be choosers,but the choice is yours.

I have been doing this for 26 yrs,my 16yr old boy is flying,he loves it because none of his mates can fly.Would I tell him to pursue aviation,sure I would.....but get a education first and foremost.....this industry begs that you have some sort of contingency plan.

I have been fired,furloughed,paid nothing,unemployed,asked to break regs and worked for a swag of bankrupt companies,it sounds worse than it really is,but that is the reality of aviation.The Major airlines are sometimes no different.

Personally,I enjoy what I do.You will come across a lot of negativity,but across the board,all industrys have it.It is about what you personally are willing to put up with.Aviation owes me nothing,I get what I give,and its all about attitude.

I wish you the best in your endevours,I have been there,and I do not regret it at all........Ukuikui ai ki te hoaka....(persistence pays off)

[chief wiggum]

then you get into a Qantas regional. You now pay about $10 000 for an endorsement you have to cover food & rent during training, then you get paid in the low $40 000's

So don't go for the QF regional. There are plenty of other good regional jobs who pay you to train, and just bond you, instead of asking for money up front. AND you can still apply to mainline in the meantime... with a realistic hope of getting in.

[russianred]

do you really want it

I started learning to fly at Bankstown at 24.There were lots of wannabees but in time many of them dropped out for various reasons. I worked in factories at night , served pizzas and rode my bike to the airport cause i couldnt put gas in my car.. Today im flying the 744 O/s after flying the 767 and 757. All the guys i saw working hard and really wanting to make it got there. Some now in VBlue, Qantas , Emirates , Singapore , Cathay and some stayed by choice in GA.If you really want it just never give up and one day a break will come along. I along with all my friends sacrificed along the way but when i ask myself was it all worth it i have to say hell yeh .Sick bxxxxxx that i am- i still remember with fondness pulling the a/c out of the hangar at BK in the early morning and putting them back there late at night and working under the FNOs (Franks Nav Orders )-Great time..If you want it enough keep going.

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by novicef

Itmakes me very sad that what I really hoped for might not happen.

The only reason you won't get what you hope for is if you give up, which is what it sounds like you're about to do. You've got two choices, stick with it and eventually get the job you want, or quit and make it a little easier for the other students. The ball is in your court, as they say.

IMO, those who give up just didn't really want it enough. How much do you want it?

[Mr. Hat]

If it works out you are a genious and its the best move you ever made.

If it doesn't you are a fool with no money.

[pakeha-boy]

.....then of course we may all be out of a job in 20yrs........NASA and others are spending millions as we speak on the UAS/UAV......ie Unmaned Aireal Systems/vehicles.......designed to make the modern pilot redundant.......we see it in the military with the use of drones in Iraq.....a precurser of things to come ........better start saving for that bach by hot water beach I reckon...

[ITCZ]

You are a long time dead. Do it.

Just remember to conduct yourself at all stages of your possibly 40 year career in a manner that will...

... allow you to walk into any aero club or crew bar and be welcomed

... have former workmates happily recommend you for any job

... have any captain or FO you crew with be happy that you are in the other seat on a tough day

Try to keep that in mind when you are tempted to take shortcuts, "please" your boss or pax, or are tempted to undercut a colleague or otherwise "get ahead" in your career at someone else's expense.

Integrity is the gift a man gives himself. Aim to be windswept and interesting rather than cashed up

Enjoy

[TurbineDreamer]

I guess there are many schools of thought on this subject. I guess you have to be positive going in or there is no point in trying, but go in with your eyes open. It is great to fly, and the feeling of finally getting that first job is fantastic. Unfortunately I never got that second job, and have ended up in another indusrty partly my choice, partly the nature of the industry. Yes, I am somewhat bitter that I am not there and some of the blokes I trained with are in the majors now, though some never got there, and quite a few I worked with were in longer than me with 1000's of hours and then got out. They found that they couldn't get to that elusive airline job and they had bills to pay. 2 things, get something else to full back on, not sure of your age but if young get a degree/diploma or trade in something else first and then try and fly. That way you have something to fall back on and it will also give you a balanced perspective when you are flying. I am not going to say don't do it, I wouldn't have listen to anyone saying that to me, but do look at all the options. And if you are older then be realistc about where you can get to. Just ease into I say, do some flying while doing something else, don't be in a rush. Finally, if you do go full ahead with it, keep the perspective that there is more to life than flying a plane, because otherwise the process will eat you up.

[neville_nobody]

Originally Posted by TurbineDreamer

Finally, if you do go full ahead with it, keep the perspective that there is more to life than flying a plane, because otherwise the process will eat you up.

Turbine dreamer you have hit the nail on the head IMHO.

I would be interested in how many of you out there who are giving it the whole 'if you want it bad enough' routine, have interests outside of aviation?? And how's the love life going?? Divorced?? How many goods friends do you have who are not pilots??

One thing I have noticed between pilots and the rest of the community is that the majority have no life outside of aviation!! While you might make it to the big time and get to fly a big jet all over the world if that's your dream, is that worth it for what you will get paid??

30 years ago yes it probably was because you got big money and can retire early. Have a look at the thread on the Jetstar vs QF A330 pay. For doing the same job today you might be taking a 30% pay cut. No to mention what the rosters will be like. This also does not take into consideration the dollars you will pour in JUST TO GET TO AN INTERVIEW!!!

I heard a great story that when asked in a interview what is your greatest ahcievement outside of aviation the respone given "was to still have the same girlfriend as when I started" the pilots all fell about laughing and noding their heads while the recruitment staff thought the guy was insane!!

I have met two ex QF pilots who have both quit due the fact that it was having a negative impact on their lives. Both went to uni and are now employed outside of aviation and both have said (independantly) that QF was the best job anyone could have but when put in the big picture of life that is was taking too much away.

I guess the question you gotta ask is what am I prepared to sacrifice to get where I want to be and will that be worth it.

[turbantime]

My story of "if you want it bad enough" Finished my CPL/CIR/ATPL theory during same time as Sep 11, Ansett collapse and the SARS crisis. There were absolutely no jobs out there. Hung in there for 18 months while working three different non-flying jobs which taught a lot about myself. Now I'm happy as a pig in you no what. Now that I look back at it, I wouldn't have it any other way because nothing I ever do is taken for granted.

Neville,

have interests outside of aviation??

Plenty in fact. Play soccer, cricket, party hard and just this morning went rock-climbing before lazing by the poolside with good mates.

And how's the love life going??

Absolutely great, thanks for asking

How many goods friends do you have who are not pilots??

Most of my friends are non-pilots. They come from all different walks of life, some are lawyers, accountants, IT workers etc etc

In any case, so what if you if your best friends are also pilots? Does that make you a loser somehow? I fail to see the logic here personally.

Life is what you make of it. What I find personally is that it's usually the guys/gals starting out in their first gigs/years that are fully immersed in all things aviation because they're really excited to be there. After a couple of years you start to branch out and do other things to keep life interesting.

By the way, all of the above whilst in GA and loving it!

[neville_nobody]

Turbantime,

Just making the point that alot pilots don't have balance. You are not a loser if your friends are all pilots however I would suggest that it wasn't a balanced life. Alot of people outside aviation wouldn't hang around thier workmates all the time.

I would also guess that you are not working shift work if you are able to make it to a cricket or soccer match every weekend!! Good luck to you if that's the case!

[turbantime]

Nev,

I find a lot of people hang out with people from their industries but the biggest difference is that they rarely talk about their work.

For the record, my job requires a lot of shift work (what aviation job doesn't?) But the trick is to find a balance. I don't play sports every weekend but I do what I can and my team mates all know that.

[C152R]

I guess one solution would be to make the CPL & ATPL as challenging as the JAR. Then only the ones who are really serious and have the ability to pass the exams will get through. This will cut out the dreamers whose only ability, is the ability to pay.