Instructors Salary

[Charliethewonderdog]

Charlie,

I hope you are burning kero for a very well established operator, other wise GOOD LUCK in getting there.

I hope every pilot doesn't have to go through what I had to or other pilots had to.

It's seems everyone in this industry is so self motivated that they lose the big picture of what they are doing to the industry when they climb the Ladder, myself included. When they achieve there goals they leave the bad days behind and turn their backs on GA. But the problems they had will always be with them right up to the majors. You just have to read the threads on the relevant EBA’s that are being negotiated at the moment. Maybe the best way to fix the top of the tree is to water it from the bottom.

Like I said earlier, it’s the fundamental attitudes that pilots have of them selves and fellow workers that has lead to the industry having a complete lack of respect for us. Now it’s at the top of the tree (Airlines).

[bullamakanka]

Charlie,

Thanks for the link in your previous post to companies that pay the award. I am sorry to inform you that at some of these companies, and other companies that pay it, you dont just fly the plane. Are you aware that it is legal to pay the award but not have the employee flying at every possible moment?

[Charliethewonderdog]

Originally Posted by bullamakanka

Charlie,

Thanks for the link in your previous post to companies that pay the award. I am sorry to inform you that at some of these companies, and other companies that pay it, you dont just fly the plane. Are you aware that it is legal to pay the award but not have the employee flying at every possible moment?

90 hours a fortnight. Thats what a company pays for that is what they should get, provided they are full time. If the company would like to burn up Duty time by rostering pilots to wash aircraft, clean toilets, vacumn offices etc... than they can. Doesn't make sense to me it would be a very expensive and you could argue from the award that it would 'promote deskilling'.

14.1 An employer may direct a pilot to carry out such duties as are within the limits of the pilot's skill, competency and training, such duties are not designed to promote deskilling, and are consistent with safety requirements.

[Unhinged]

Originally Posted by Charliethewonderdog

Like I said earlier, it’s the fundamental attitudes that pilots have of them selves and fellow workers that has lead to the industry having a complete lack of respect for us.

Precisely so - though probably not in the way you meant it.

The arrogant attitude that we're too important to do a bit of cleaning when things are quiet, is exactly the kind of thinking that loses us their respect.

If getting a mop out in my (paid) spare time at work saves the boss a few dollars, then there's a good chance the business will be around a bit longer and I'll have my job a bit longer. Sitting on my backside while the boss pays someone else to do a job I could easily do, is about as self-centred and self-defeating as you can get.

When flying is a bit thin, I still work as a diving instructor and on those days I clean toilets and wash boats at the end of the day. I don't see any problem at all.

[Charliethewonderdog]

Originally Posted by Unhinged

Precisely so - though probably not in the way you meant it.
The arrogant attitude that we're too important to do a bit of cleaning when things are quiet, is exactly the kind of thinking that loses us their respect.
If getting a mop out in my (paid) spare time at work saves the boss a few dollars, then there's a good chance the business will be around a bit longer and I'll have my job a bit longer. Sitting on my backside while the boss pays someone else to do a job I could easily do, is about as self-centred and self-defeating as you can get.
When flying is a bit thin, I still work as a diving instructor and on those days I clean toilets and wash boats at the end of the day. I don't see any problem at all.

No problem with that at all. Like I said earlier, the company can utilize your time how he see fit. 90 hours a fortnight to roster you to do what ever he likes.
I've always wondered what 'promote deskilling' actually means.

[Dogimed]

I may have missed it, but has anyone mentioned the point that this chappee, or chappette should not be allowed to go straight into instructing after becoming a CPL? They will only pass on poorly instructed bad habbits from their instructor, who no doubt has 300 hours in a bug smasha themselves.

Novice,

obtained my PPL when I was in school with the intention of becoming a commercial pilot.

If you could afford to get your PPL when you were in school, I would suggest sticking with whatever job you were doing and pay for your CPL hours. Dont waste some other poor kids time just so you can build your hours.

Dog

[puff]

Amazing industry really, mate of mine drives a bus(ex pilot). He just DRIVES it, isn't expected to do office work, clean it, vacumm it, wash it or refuel it, and is getting about $45-50k a year, how long will that take in aviation? Your telling me a 'bus' driver is higher trained or has more responsibility than any aircraft pilot? Why is it then they are afford FAR better working conditions and wages, because they appreciate their skills are worth something and they deserve to get paid for it.

[Over and gout]

[QUOTE=Dogimed]I may have missed it, but has anyone mentioned the point that this chappee, or chappette should not be allowed to go straight into instructing after becoming a CPL? They will only pass on poorly instructed bad habbits from their instructor, who no doubt has 300 hours in a bug smasha themselves.


I completely disagree. It doesn't take years of charter experience and airline 747 jet hours to teach someone effects of controls in a 152...or to do a trial flight.

Sure teaching IFR is quite a bit harder, but it takes a few years of experience to work up to that position anyway.....

[Dogimed]

OAG,

I think the ex 747 pilots are just as bad, but I still stand by my opinion that low time pilots should not be instructors. Currently you can go from ground dweller to instructor in the space of 6 months. Would you like this person teaching your children the funamentals of flying.

Think back to the wise old words of wisdom from your instructor, You wont get that from a low time fresh CPL that gets a job with the school he/she got the instructor rating from.

The industry needs help, and it should start with these newbie instructors being banned. I say min of 500 or 1000 hours before being allowed to become a instructor.

hours to teach someone effects of controls in a 152...or to do a trial flight

No, but it does take experience to teach someone to respect the forces of aerodynamics.

Dog

[Charliethewonderdog]

Originally Posted by puff

Amazing industry really, mate of mine drives a bus(ex pilot). He just DRIVES it, isn't expected to do office work, clean it, vacumm it, wash it or refuel it, and is getting about $45-50k a year, how long will that take in aviation? Your telling me a 'bus' driver is higher trained or has more responsibility than any aircraft pilot? Why is it then they are afford FAR better working conditions and wages, because they appreciate their skills are worth something and they deserve to get paid for it.

If an instructor was on $25 an hour than they would have fly 1800 hours a year to get what a Bus driver gets.

Any Flying school that offers these great rewards to thier employee should be shut down in my opinion.
And there are ways of shutting them down.

[Over and gout]

Originally Posted by Dogimed

OAG,
I think the ex 747 pilots are just as bad, but I still stand by my opinion that low time pilots should not be instructors. Currently you can go from ground dweller to instructor in the space of 6 months. Would you like this person teaching your children the funamentals of flying.
Think back to the wise old words of wisdom from your instructor, You wont get that from a low time fresh CPL that gets a job with the school he/she got the instructor rating from.
The industry needs help, and it should start with these newbie instructors being banned. I say min of 500 or 1000 hours before being allowed to become a instructor.
No, but it does take experience to teach someone to respect the forces of aerodynamics.
Dog

Remember though a junior g3 instructor has to work under the direct supervision of the chief flying instructor and are only doing the very basic training sequences anyway. The student also needs to be assessed at regular intervals by a senior instructor when trained solely by a g3 instructor, and junior instructors never make the call on major issues like going solo etc anyway.

My opinion is that it is the individual instructors attitude towards teaching that makes the difference. I learned off a fellow who had huge amounts of airline experience as well as a lifetime in GA and with the benefit of hindsight I realise he was very jaded with it all and not giving 100%.

I still believe there is nothing wrong with low time instructors doing basic training although I think the hours needed to upgrade to sg3, g2 & g1 should be increased.

[novicef]

Is it true that a pilot must be paid for a minimum of 4 hours even though he might fly only one?

Further to that how is superannuation affected if he is not paid the correct amount? Can the superannuation board take action against a company that doesen't pay the proper super amount and finally how can one check that the super is actually being paid and not being used to pay off company bills. We don't want another ENRON. This is a question that was posed to me by a mate.