Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
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Sounds like aviations version of the crack special operations group, or the elite tactical response group.
You can always rely on the media to 'dress it up' for the punters.
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ACCC
Now how and why would you expect me to pull a chain on someone I do not know as it could be a silly thing with a hell of a lot of comments then thrust on me for no good reason, I like to ask questions and form my own opinion from the answers that get posted.
I get the feeling that Tarboy may know him and he seems to give a good answer to the accusations put forward.
I have a terrible feeling that the fuel low mentioned could be a little true as that is the modis operandi for sky dive aircraft to help the climb and stuff an extra one or two in to reduce costs, boy that could open a nest of worms if they establish the loading and weight and balance on take off.
Still cannot understand why you would go out to sea when things are getting difficult and the age thing is a bit weak as licence tests do make sure of forced landing practice quite a bit during training an indeed on the actual issuing of the ticket to aviate. Anyhow it will show up if the investigation goes ahead.
Now how and why would you expect me to pull a chain on someone I do not know as it could be a silly thing with a hell of a lot of comments then thrust on me for no good reason, I like to ask questions and form my own opinion from the answers that get posted.
I get the feeling that Tarboy may know him and he seems to give a good answer to the accusations put forward.
I have a terrible feeling that the fuel low mentioned could be a little true as that is the modis operandi for sky dive aircraft to help the climb and stuff an extra one or two in to reduce costs, boy that could open a nest of worms if they establish the loading and weight and balance on take off.
Still cannot understand why you would go out to sea when things are getting difficult and the age thing is a bit weak as licence tests do make sure of forced landing practice quite a bit during training an indeed on the actual issuing of the ticket to aviate. Anyhow it will show up if the investigation goes ahead.
Last edited by inthefluffystuff; 1st Jan 2006 at 19:49.
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Hello Ladies,
Looks like we have got another heated argument invovling the Geel/BH/Tor Ctaf. You ladies love you fight like schoolgirls don't you. Anyway not to agree with QNIM (because from most of his post he sounds like a bit of edit, Woomera but i can see where he is coming from. The company in which that pilot is "employed" have been very suspect for as long as i have been in aviation. There seems to be a common link, pilots employed by him crashing planes! (and breaking the law)! Think it's about time someone (ie CASA) payed them a visit.
I'll be looking forward to some reply's from TMW(ie accc)
Farewell Ladies
ilovemycessna
You're off to the sinbin for a couple of days. Zero Tolerance on name calling.
Woomera (Eastern States)
Looks like we have got another heated argument invovling the Geel/BH/Tor Ctaf. You ladies love you fight like schoolgirls don't you. Anyway not to agree with QNIM (because from most of his post he sounds like a bit of edit, Woomera but i can see where he is coming from. The company in which that pilot is "employed" have been very suspect for as long as i have been in aviation. There seems to be a common link, pilots employed by him crashing planes! (and breaking the law)! Think it's about time someone (ie CASA) payed them a visit.
I'll be looking forward to some reply's from TMW(ie accc)
Farewell Ladies
ilovemycessna
You're off to the sinbin for a couple of days. Zero Tolerance on name calling.
Woomera (Eastern States)
Last edited by Woomera; 6th Jan 2006 at 19:02. Reason: Name calling towards QNIM
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Gday ilovemycessna
We are all entitled to our opinion and I except yours but going by your name you must be a sick pussy unless you get around in a Citation coz these days the rest are crapp, better known in the early days as Cessbuckets. Ok now that’s off my chest, listen darling the investigation division of CASA has paid them many visits in the last 12 odd years due to numerous accidents, incidents and reports from the public with recommendations to take action, which obliviously have been ignored by the weak gutted hierarchy because they still hold an AOC.
Gday accc
I think you forgot to add in your posts the fact that you both have a commercial aviation background for the last, was it fifty years?
Gday Tarboy
Thanks for your input I cleared out after a very short time because I could see my licence going down the chute or even worse somebodies blood on my hands and have been pursued through the industry ever since by those vindictive w@nkers.
Gday Wiz
Now you be nice coz I wasn’t naughty to you on the phone just pissed.
Anyway all you lot have a safe and prosperous new year.
Cheers Q
We are all entitled to our opinion and I except yours but going by your name you must be a sick pussy unless you get around in a Citation coz these days the rest are crapp, better known in the early days as Cessbuckets. Ok now that’s off my chest, listen darling the investigation division of CASA has paid them many visits in the last 12 odd years due to numerous accidents, incidents and reports from the public with recommendations to take action, which obliviously have been ignored by the weak gutted hierarchy because they still hold an AOC.
Gday accc
I think you forgot to add in your posts the fact that you both have a commercial aviation background for the last, was it fifty years?
Gday Tarboy
Thanks for your input I cleared out after a very short time because I could see my licence going down the chute or even worse somebodies blood on my hands and have been pursued through the industry ever since by those vindictive w@nkers.
Gday Wiz
Now you be nice coz I wasn’t naughty to you on the phone just pissed.
Anyway all you lot have a safe and prosperous new year.
Cheers Q
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Gday Wiz
Now you be nice coz I wasn’t naughty to you on the phone just pissed.
Now you be nice coz I wasn’t naughty to you on the phone just pissed.
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
TL, they weren't talking about this accident, they were talking about the 206 which went into a dam after take-off in Brisbane yesterday.
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Have been off this forum for awhile but the skydiving fraterinity seem to be in the hot seat as far as accidents go, hope they get a break from the bad run they are having!!!
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
G'Day Tarboy, Ladies and Gents - whishing you a Happy New Year,
The newspapers approached QNIM............ please............... what did they do, Look him up under P in the white pages????
There seemd to be alot of rumours about QNIM being sacked at just about ever place that he has worked......Shame on those employers!!!!
QNIM...an authority?????!!!!! he has never held a position in running a airfield or business. I bet you would not be suporting him if he Taxied your Tiger when the wind conditions were known to be outside the limits of the aircraft, operator and withought sufficiant ground crew, Hardly responsable piloting.
My point that i made prevously was that the likes of QNIM who contiunally run to the press and politicans in an attempt to have his Ex-employees or competition shut down, damages the industry as a whole!
By including the politicans it puts undue pressure on the operators that do not relate to safety, if QNIM and others were generally concerned about safety, there are more proactive and positive ways where thay can work with there compeitiors and other aviation enthusiasts that benifets the industry as a whole!
To all thoses people who hide behind the word "safety" and "public interest" to then stick knives in the backs of aviation operators and enthusiats.......................KARMA......................
The newspapers approached QNIM............ please............... what did they do, Look him up under P in the white pages????
There seemd to be alot of rumours about QNIM being sacked at just about ever place that he has worked......Shame on those employers!!!!
QNIM...an authority?????!!!!! he has never held a position in running a airfield or business. I bet you would not be suporting him if he Taxied your Tiger when the wind conditions were known to be outside the limits of the aircraft, operator and withought sufficiant ground crew, Hardly responsable piloting.
My point that i made prevously was that the likes of QNIM who contiunally run to the press and politicans in an attempt to have his Ex-employees or competition shut down, damages the industry as a whole!
By including the politicans it puts undue pressure on the operators that do not relate to safety, if QNIM and others were generally concerned about safety, there are more proactive and positive ways where thay can work with there compeitiors and other aviation enthusiasts that benifets the industry as a whole!
To all thoses people who hide behind the word "safety" and "public interest" to then stick knives in the backs of aviation operators and enthusiats.......................KARMA......................
Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Rubbish Accc! You must know that the first principle of Australian business is to never let on when you are making money and always whinge about profitability.
I detect a certain element of that strategy here, as in the diving and similar liesure industries. For example, a scuba dive will cost you $65 at the Rip near Melbourne. Go figure the profits from an operation that can average 10- 15 divers twice a day 100 days a year (forget the weekdays).
I'd be interested to know what a skydive costs. We already know that it takes about 14-20 minutes to get to 14,000 feet, so what is the cycle time? How many dives can you do a day? Operating costs? My guess is that skydive operators are laughing all the way to the bank.
Their profitability is a direct function of how fast they can get the aircraft airborne and then back on the ground for the next load. That is a function of fuel load and the degree of shock cooling their engines experience on descent.
I'm not suggesting that the operator in either Queensland or Victoria has done anything wrong, but it appears that the skydiving operating cycle puts unusual and extreme loads on a piston engine. ie: A maximum power climb followed by imediate shock cooling on descent.
Maybe CASA needs to mandate turbine aircraft for skydiving?
I detect a certain element of that strategy here, as in the diving and similar liesure industries. For example, a scuba dive will cost you $65 at the Rip near Melbourne. Go figure the profits from an operation that can average 10- 15 divers twice a day 100 days a year (forget the weekdays).
I'd be interested to know what a skydive costs. We already know that it takes about 14-20 minutes to get to 14,000 feet, so what is the cycle time? How many dives can you do a day? Operating costs? My guess is that skydive operators are laughing all the way to the bank.
Their profitability is a direct function of how fast they can get the aircraft airborne and then back on the ground for the next load. That is a function of fuel load and the degree of shock cooling their engines experience on descent.
I'm not suggesting that the operator in either Queensland or Victoria has done anything wrong, but it appears that the skydiving operating cycle puts unusual and extreme loads on a piston engine. ie: A maximum power climb followed by imediate shock cooling on descent.
Maybe CASA needs to mandate turbine aircraft for skydiving?
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
SUNFISH, I agree with you. I have recently watched a Cessna 206 operating out of RL Aviation, Ceres making a prolonged spiral descent from presumably 10,000. This cannot be good for a piston engine!
Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
"How could you miss an airport from 10k?"
I agree. This guy was in the optimum position to carry out a forced landing.
Why then did it turn to sh1t?
Quite possibly due to lack of training! If he had not been trained in this procedure (from altitude) then you cannot blame him. You blame the system. (The sausage factory).
I agree. This guy was in the optimum position to carry out a forced landing.
Why then did it turn to sh1t?
Quite possibly due to lack of training! If he had not been trained in this procedure (from altitude) then you cannot blame him. You blame the system. (The sausage factory).
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Good point Sunfish.
BTW Tug launched gliding ops have the same shock cooling problems, although they don't usually have such a prolonged climb - usually to between 3 and 6,000' is enough. But the cycle time issues are identical, as must be the thermal shock.
Why can't they descend under power - are they going to breach Vmca spiralling down from 10,000 with even as little as 1800 rpm to keep the temp up?
BTW Tug launched gliding ops have the same shock cooling problems, although they don't usually have such a prolonged climb - usually to between 3 and 6,000' is enough. But the cycle time issues are identical, as must be the thermal shock.
Why can't they descend under power - are they going to breach Vmca spiralling down from 10,000 with even as little as 1800 rpm to keep the temp up?
Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
I have a couple of acquaintences who run jumpships. They have Digital engine monitors fitted, and say they are surprised how little power is needed to avoid shock cooling in the descent, compared to what they thought was needed.
Props are for boats!
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Woomera,
This is starting to sound like a pack of Hiennas scrumaging for left over flesh on a Wilder Beast. It sickens me how people can make accusations after only a few days where now 5 people have perished.
Shame shame shame
Sheep
This is starting to sound like a pack of Hiennas scrumaging for left over flesh on a Wilder Beast. It sickens me how people can make accusations after only a few days where now 5 people have perished.
Shame shame shame
Sheep
Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
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Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Without doubt, skydiving ops would have to be probably the hardest environment for any aircraft to operate in. Lots of landing cycles, long and hot max weight climbs, high speed descents, usually lots of different pilots all doing things their own way, modified airframes to fit jump doors, lots of weird airflow buffet over the airframe tail sections from dragging jumpers along hanging out of doors and off wing edges prior to exits and all done in aircraft that are probably some of the older models operating in the country.
Makes you wonder why there are not more incidents really.
Makes you wonder why there are not more incidents really.
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
VH-Cheer up,
I think you are referring to VNE not Vmca.
Using power all the way down increases speed to closer to VNE but give yourself a resonable buffer, and even slower in rough air of course. Never exceed any operating limits or you will come unstuck, sooner or later.
Keep the MAP at the top of the green arc and reduce it as required during the descent, as well as richening the mixture at the same time. Every 1000' or so. Cowl flaps closed 500' to level off in the climb helps keep the temps in the engine and if they are then kept closed during the descent until final you will have little or no shock cooling. In a C182 I routinely had the CHT 390F TOPC at A010 and it was still 310F or so 5 mins later on the ground.
Cheers!
Z.
I think you are referring to VNE not Vmca.
Using power all the way down increases speed to closer to VNE but give yourself a resonable buffer, and even slower in rough air of course. Never exceed any operating limits or you will come unstuck, sooner or later.
Keep the MAP at the top of the green arc and reduce it as required during the descent, as well as richening the mixture at the same time. Every 1000' or so. Cowl flaps closed 500' to level off in the climb helps keep the temps in the engine and if they are then kept closed during the descent until final you will have little or no shock cooling. In a C182 I routinely had the CHT 390F TOPC at A010 and it was still 310F or so 5 mins later on the ground.
Cheers!
Z.
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
Once again, let's kick the **** out of an industry as a whole for the misbehaviour of a few. Exactly like saying all charter businesses are the same. They aren't. Not all DZ's are the same either. Everyone knows someone who got treated like **** at a DZ. Same as a charter company. What makes you think that further regulation would change any of the errant behaviour anyway? Oh I see, it works in the charter industry!! Hahahahaha. If you got treated like **** at a DZ, or they were shonks, or whatever, next time you point the finger at them, take a look at how many of your fingers point back ot YOU. What did YOU do about it?
It isn't difficult to get normal TBO engine life out of jump ships. All it takes is a little care, and forethought. Nothing else.
How did we jump to the conclusion that it was this fault or that fault? Oh, I know, it happened in the Three Ringed Circus, and everybody just knows that all the operators and pilots in the Three Ring Circus can't fly, or can't run a business, or can't play by the rules...........can they.
It isn't difficult to get normal TBO engine life out of jump ships. All it takes is a little care, and forethought. Nothing else.
How did we jump to the conclusion that it was this fault or that fault? Oh, I know, it happened in the Three Ringed Circus, and everybody just knows that all the operators and pilots in the Three Ring Circus can't fly, or can't run a business, or can't play by the rules...........can they.
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Re: Parachute Aircraft lands in the water
G'day Pall,
your the classic example of what i have been talking about!!!!
where your s@#t stirring and politics got in the way of good airmanship.
Instead of landing at Torquay, you decided to crash in to the lake at Barwon Heads
Just to avoid the Golden Shovel Award!
You may have pulled it off if you hadnt got your power confused with your flaps=
I am still puzzled at why the Fat controller let you fly in the first place that day!
It's good to see your still flying and having a few beers at the bar
your the classic example of what i have been talking about!!!!
where your s@#t stirring and politics got in the way of good airmanship.
Instead of landing at Torquay, you decided to crash in to the lake at Barwon Heads
Just to avoid the Golden Shovel Award!You may have pulled it off if you hadnt got your power confused with your flaps=
I am still puzzled at why the Fat controller let you fly in the first place that day!
It's good to see your still flying and having a few beers at the bar