Aerobatics Endorsement
Join Date: Nov 2004
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AcroAce,
Sorry to hear about the RAAF.
There was a Decathlon at the flying school at PT Cook a couple of years ago, I don't know if it still operates there.
Oh and the PC9 can do a mighty fine stall turn if you don't start putting the rudder in until about 60kts.
A flick roll takes no skill. (You can do some funky stuff with the elevator blanking attributes of the PC9)
Sorry to hear about the RAAF.
There was a Decathlon at the flying school at PT Cook a couple of years ago, I don't know if it still operates there.
Oh and the PC9 can do a mighty fine stall turn if you don't start putting the rudder in until about 60kts.
A flick roll takes no skill. (You can do some funky stuff with the elevator blanking attributes of the PC9)
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Oh and the PC9 can do a mighty fine stall turn
Sorry to hear about the RAAF.
a few words to set u straight on an aformentioned topic of which u obviously know little about
Join Date: Oct 2004
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did aerobatic training in a 150 aerobat just to round off my flying and loved the aeros so much went out and bought a ex raaf CT4 which i love to fly,
I think aerobatic training should be part of ppl , even if you don't want to go out and bust a move on the weekend or compete should you find yourself in an unusual attitude or a spin you will have confidence in getting your wings level.
I think aerobatic training should be part of ppl , even if you don't want to go out and bust a move on the weekend or compete should you find yourself in an unusual attitude or a spin you will have confidence in getting your wings level.
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Acroace said
Mate, no way.
I own a Yak 52 and let me tell you if you are burning 150 litres per hour you HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM.
There is no way this is so. Someone is telling you porkies.
The only way I can think of someone using that much fuel in a Yak 52 is doing aeros with drop tanks installed and then I think it would be a might accomplishment.
Evil Ultralights
I checked with the Yak fuel flow (this is a -50) and he confirmed 150 lires/hour doing aerobatics. 60 for cruise.
I own a Yak 52 and let me tell you if you are burning 150 litres per hour you HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM.
There is no way this is so. Someone is telling you porkies.
The only way I can think of someone using that much fuel in a Yak 52 is doing aeros with drop tanks installed and then I think it would be a might accomplishment.
Evil Ultralights
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I guess the difference is the question I asked is different than what we're talking about here. A Lycoming IO-360 can burn 60 litres of fuel at full throttle but if you asked me how much it burnt doing aerobatics I'd say 45 litres per hour.
So, I believe everyone about the Yaks.
So, I believe everyone about the Yaks.
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150 litres per hour I would run out of fuel if I was burning 150 litres per hr.
I know the person who you were talking to at Avalon and he would not have said that.
The tanks only hold 120 litres by the way and we have been up for an hour at aerobatic power setting and still landed with heaps of fuel in the tanks.
MM
I know the person who you were talking to at Avalon and he would not have said that.
The tanks only hold 120 litres by the way and we have been up for an hour at aerobatic power setting and still landed with heaps of fuel in the tanks.
MM
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The CAP 232 is a very capable aeroplane too
Mere Mortal - I wasn't talking to anyone at Avalon about Yaks.
Last Sunday at MB, I saw Pip fly again - great stuff.
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Anyone esle see the aerobatic display at Narromine last weekend? To say the least it didn't impress me at all - p poor.
I should've gone to Temora, was supposed to be a great event.
I should've gone to Temora, was supposed to be a great event.
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VMC4ME et al: Pip Borrman is the premier aerobatic display pilot in Oz and one of the best in the world. FACT! That is why he was approached by Castrol for full sponsorship? Paul & Chris are just not in his league and never will be. Castrol were looking around Oz for an aerobatic pilot to sponsor and approached Pip because he is head and shoulders above the others and he is the most professional by far. This is a multi billion $$$ company and they do their home work. If you are passing through Shepp drop in and have a look at his set up and talk to the man himself. (He has a zero ****** tollerence so be warned) You will very soon realise why he is doing displays, air shows and Castrol events across the country. The man is a total pro. Chris has been around forever and has never really achieved anything in the aerobatic world. Sadly he never has a nice word to say about anyone else in the aerobatic community. Or hasn't over the last 20 years. Paul A is a nice guy but just not in Pips class. That is not a slight on Paul just a fact. If others knew the sacrifices Pip has made and the price he's paid to get to where he is perhaps they wouldn't be so quick to judge. As far as performance is concerned, why do you think Pip went for the Edge? He did his homework & bought the aircraft with the highest performance & the highest development potential. The research and development he continues to do on his engine & airframe is amazing! He is breaking new ground with his gyroscopic manouvres all the time. If you want to say he's borring then watch Chris or Paul's displays and then watch Pip. They are just not in his class. Better still give Pip a call and ask him to take you for a spin in a duel Pitts & find out for yourself. Pip is recognised by Castrol and some of the best profesional arobatic pilots in the world as one of the best most professional display pilots around. We are lucky to have him living in Oz & we should support him.
Last edited by A4G; 6th Oct 2005 at 01:21.
Well unlike most of the PPrune armchair pilots I actually attended the flyin/airshow. 'twas a good weekend with over 400 aircraft on the ground which was very impressive.
As for Pip v's Paul, well for change I was in the croud watching which I don't normally do. Pip was doing his usual airshow routine, however the placement of his show was pathetic and towards the afternoon sun. As a result it was really hard to see what he was doing and to be honest he did no particularly special moves in his aircraft.
Paul on the other hand who performed later in the show, did his display right in front of the crowd and away from the sun glare and to be honest looked far more spectacular. At one stage when he reversed out of the cloud of smoke and flicked the aircraft vionently onto it's back I literally saw people in the crowd's jaws drop to the ground with a noticeable "oohh" as he did this; that just didn't happen with Pip I'm afraid.
The only thing that let Paul down on the day was that his commentator didn't fully know his routine which gave an element of Paul not looking like he knew what he was doing.
In summary:
Paul 1 point for a great display with come cool moves
Pip 0 for performing in the afternoon sun
Paul 0 for a dodgey commentary
Pip 1 for doing his own commentary
Pip 1
Paul 1
On a par and I'm not the only one that thought so....
And to be honest, Pip's performance was like he was only doing it because he had to be there. He did it for like 5 minutes, then left almost straight away. It's like he was only there for the money which is a real shame.
PS: How on earth did Chris get thrown into the mix with the likes of Paul and Pip!!!!!
As for Pip v's Paul, well for change I was in the croud watching which I don't normally do. Pip was doing his usual airshow routine, however the placement of his show was pathetic and towards the afternoon sun. As a result it was really hard to see what he was doing and to be honest he did no particularly special moves in his aircraft.
Paul on the other hand who performed later in the show, did his display right in front of the crowd and away from the sun glare and to be honest looked far more spectacular. At one stage when he reversed out of the cloud of smoke and flicked the aircraft vionently onto it's back I literally saw people in the crowd's jaws drop to the ground with a noticeable "oohh" as he did this; that just didn't happen with Pip I'm afraid.
The only thing that let Paul down on the day was that his commentator didn't fully know his routine which gave an element of Paul not looking like he knew what he was doing.
In summary:
Paul 1 point for a great display with come cool moves
Pip 0 for performing in the afternoon sun
Paul 0 for a dodgey commentary
Pip 1 for doing his own commentary
Pip 1
Paul 1
On a par and I'm not the only one that thought so....
And to be honest, Pip's performance was like he was only doing it because he had to be there. He did it for like 5 minutes, then left almost straight away. It's like he was only there for the money which is a real shame.
PS: How on earth did Chris get thrown into the mix with the likes of Paul and Pip!!!!!
Last edited by Squawk7700; 7th Oct 2005 at 00:38.
The Man on the street
From the three "Warbirds Over Scone" airshows the one consistent comment we get in our feedback forms is that Pip was the audience's #1 favourite part of the show.
Yes he is expensive BUT ... if the only part of the show they remember is "the mad **** in the yellow airplane" we have to ask why we spend nearly $50k (and heaps of favours) getting all the old bangers in.
Yes he is expensive BUT ... if the only part of the show they remember is "the mad **** in the yellow airplane" we have to ask why we spend nearly $50k (and heaps of favours) getting all the old bangers in.
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SQUAWK 7700: Just to let you know, Pip flew his display in accordance with the boundaries as defined by CASA on the day, Paul did not and is now in discussions with CASA on that subject unfortunately for him. Sorry about the position of the sun but Pip has no say in that. Perhaps if you were more informed on the technicalities of airshow flying you'd have a better understanding of whats involved for the display pilot? Not having a go at you just making a suggestion?
Hmmmm... I guess the 4 airshows that I have flown in by invitation don't count for anything. Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about... perhaps I do...
Well I'll tell you now, if "Paul is in discussions with CASA" about crossing the display line then over 50% of the other aircraft pilots will be in the poo too... especially the Zero, the Boomerang and several others, including the little Tecnam.
For as long as I can remember (and at every airshow I've been to bar OshKosh) the display line is set 200 metres from the crowd line which is the point that no aircraft can cross and an aircraft can't face the crowd within 500 metres of the crowd line (which mind you isn't very far!) and both the 200 and 500 metre lines can be an arc around the crowd... Narromine was no exception to this thus if Pip didn't want to fly into the sun, he could have easily re-positioned himself around more to the eastern side (towards Dubbo), along the arc line.
As for the Roulettes and Hawk's being exempt from the crowd protection rules, I am at a loss as to how they are still allowed to get away with that. They might belong to the Government, however they are only machines and the pilots are only human!
Well I'll tell you now, if "Paul is in discussions with CASA" about crossing the display line then over 50% of the other aircraft pilots will be in the poo too... especially the Zero, the Boomerang and several others, including the little Tecnam.
For as long as I can remember (and at every airshow I've been to bar OshKosh) the display line is set 200 metres from the crowd line which is the point that no aircraft can cross and an aircraft can't face the crowd within 500 metres of the crowd line (which mind you isn't very far!) and both the 200 and 500 metre lines can be an arc around the crowd... Narromine was no exception to this thus if Pip didn't want to fly into the sun, he could have easily re-positioned himself around more to the eastern side (towards Dubbo), along the arc line.
As for the Roulettes and Hawk's being exempt from the crowd protection rules, I am at a loss as to how they are still allowed to get away with that. They might belong to the Government, however they are only machines and the pilots are only human!
A4G get your facts straight b4 posting!
Sorry A4G, but I've just found out that your post about CASA talking to Paul is 100% completely UNtrue. So get your facts straight before posting!!!!
PM me if you feel otherwise.
PM me if you feel otherwise.