Does CASA Have Serious Problems?
Well mate, let's not bother using reasoned arguments based on our experiences, shall we, and just get into the sarcasm?
Forget it; when you would like to discuss the issues realistically, I'll be here.
Forget it; when you would like to discuss the issues realistically, I'll be here.
Starlight,
This statement is as much true for the ADF as it is for GA. The difference is where that end product is going.
Your comment
simply isn't true today. 25 years ago perhaps, these days undergraduates are given every opportunity to pass the course and far more emphasis is placed on how students are taught rather than simply culling the weak at the earliest opportunity. Your comment merely reflects a somewhat shallow understanding of ADF flying training, not your fault, no need to apologise.
is simply flippant and unrepresentative of the counter arguments others have put forward. What you have been taken to task on is subtle inaccuracies in your presumptions about ADF flying training, thats all.
Footnote: Anecdotally there are numerous examples of candidates failing screening, basic training and even Wings tests and still going on to have very successful careers in aviation. Obviously very talented, on the other hand there are examples of candidates 'that should never have gotten through'. Shows the ADF isn't perfect, nor the be all and end all of flying training establishments.
The end product is more likely a result of the instructor's ability rather than the candidate's ability
Your comment
One deals with the cream of the crop, and doesn't have to persevere,
All instructors are equivalent, regardless of background.
Footnote: Anecdotally there are numerous examples of candidates failing screening, basic training and even Wings tests and still going on to have very successful careers in aviation. Obviously very talented, on the other hand there are examples of candidates 'that should never have gotten through'. Shows the ADF isn't perfect, nor the be all and end all of flying training establishments.
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Chronic Snoozer and Arm out the Window
Point taken. I stand corrected and better informed.
Myself and others obviously have preconcieved asumptions about the other world of Defence aviation.
You have rightfully corrected some of my misconceptions.
Is it possible that you guys also had preconcieved assumptions about civil aviation
during you ADF time and initially on entering our world?
Although I'm ex Army, I still notice that the ex Navy FOI's appear to be the most reasonable CASA
people to deal with and the ones who display the least of their ADF backgrounds.
These are merely my own observations.
However, we all deal with CASA and we are not in the ADF.
The two cultures coexist, the civil side should not need to adapt to the ADF culture,
but the ADF side, on joining our world, does need to adapt.
I guess we got sidetracked on these issues,
rather than the very serious problem of CASA misconduct and their lack of accountability for it.
It has been established that at least three, and possibly a fourth, of the Townsville Flying Ops staff
are in need of vocational redirection.
It is also rumoured that some will be soon facing a magistrate on civil matters.
The fact that some should also be facing criminal matters must be kept in mind.
Sacking the miscreants is the only way CASA can deflect being vicariously culpable and liable.
Failing to sack or severely discipline them confirms the culpability and liability of CASA.
It's now over to the Director of CASA and the new Area Manager.
Although instinct tells me that things will be set right, I'm not holding my breath.
Point taken. I stand corrected and better informed.
Myself and others obviously have preconcieved asumptions about the other world of Defence aviation.
You have rightfully corrected some of my misconceptions.
Is it possible that you guys also had preconcieved assumptions about civil aviation
during you ADF time and initially on entering our world?
Although I'm ex Army, I still notice that the ex Navy FOI's appear to be the most reasonable CASA
people to deal with and the ones who display the least of their ADF backgrounds.
These are merely my own observations.
However, we all deal with CASA and we are not in the ADF.
The two cultures coexist, the civil side should not need to adapt to the ADF culture,
but the ADF side, on joining our world, does need to adapt.
I guess we got sidetracked on these issues,
rather than the very serious problem of CASA misconduct and their lack of accountability for it.
It has been established that at least three, and possibly a fourth, of the Townsville Flying Ops staff
are in need of vocational redirection.
It is also rumoured that some will be soon facing a magistrate on civil matters.
The fact that some should also be facing criminal matters must be kept in mind.
Sacking the miscreants is the only way CASA can deflect being vicariously culpable and liable.
Failing to sack or severely discipline them confirms the culpability and liability of CASA.
It's now over to the Director of CASA and the new Area Manager.
Although instinct tells me that things will be set right, I'm not holding my breath.
Cheers Capt Starlight,
I didn't really have preconceived ideas about GA when in the ADF, just didn't know much about it at all; now (slowly!) learning more as time goes by.
I guess it will be an interesting year if these issues of industry dissatisfaction are properly addressed; let's hope so.
I didn't really have preconceived ideas about GA when in the ADF, just didn't know much about it at all; now (slowly!) learning more as time goes by.
I guess it will be an interesting year if these issues of industry dissatisfaction are properly addressed; let's hope so.
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The problem with military trained pilots in GA is that they expect their aircraft to be well maintained. They expect the previous pilot to write up all defects in the maintenance release - just like the Regs say you should. It becomes a shock to the system when these same blokes are given the sack for writing up snags because we all know that is not the way you operate in most GA organisations. I write from bitter experience.
Now put an ex military pilot into CASA and he doesn't understand that in GA you avoid defect reporting as it costs jobs. Your job. Is it any wonder some military pilots in CASA then become seen as mini-tyrants when they insist on keeping the other bastards honest?
Now put an ex military pilot into CASA and he doesn't understand that in GA you avoid defect reporting as it costs jobs. Your job. Is it any wonder some military pilots in CASA then become seen as mini-tyrants when they insist on keeping the other bastards honest?
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Hudson,
most of the major GA Charter companies have their own maintenance facility
and this doesn't happen, although a possibility in the cash strapped struggling operators area.
Larger companies usually operate with a system of maintenance,
supplemented by a MEL / PUS (Minimum equipment list or permissable unserviceability schedule).
Such a system is mandatory in RPT ops.
So if your electric trim or maybe a landing light is not working, you can
under the guidance and compliance with the MEL / PUS,
fly for a minimum period. The fault, however, will be recorded and rectified in compliance with that system.
to other posters and readers,
see the BB FNQ thread for more on CASA problems and an innovative idea to help them identify and fix the problems
most of the major GA Charter companies have their own maintenance facility
and this doesn't happen, although a possibility in the cash strapped struggling operators area.
Larger companies usually operate with a system of maintenance,
supplemented by a MEL / PUS (Minimum equipment list or permissable unserviceability schedule).
Such a system is mandatory in RPT ops.
So if your electric trim or maybe a landing light is not working, you can
under the guidance and compliance with the MEL / PUS,
fly for a minimum period. The fault, however, will be recorded and rectified in compliance with that system.
to other posters and readers,
see the BB FNQ thread for more on CASA problems and an innovative idea to help them identify and fix the problems
Check Attitude
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Starlight
Seems you're right, no further interest in this thread, and as you say, "problems? what problems".
Apart from the Crane Air mishandling, there are no other problems out there, OK?
Seems you're right, no further interest in this thread, and as you say, "problems? what problems".
Apart from the Crane Air mishandling, there are no other problems out there, OK?
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Mainframe
Mainframe and others.
Read the "sticky" on D&G Reporting Points.
There is some rational and reasoned comment to be found.
CASA is sincere in it's desire to reform, but needs our help.
As I have previously stated,
use the "Complaints and Compliments" on CASA's website to either commend or condemn CASA.
If you condemn, present verifiable and factual details.
Nicola Hinder was, in the past, surprised at the animosity held towards CASA.
Now that she is established in her role, she is no longer surprised, but can't deal with what she doesn't yet know about.
Reform is happening, we can't all have our personal grievances attended to,
but a system is being put in place to restore trust,confidence and respect.
BB's initiative of informal visits, a cup of tea and a chat will go a long way towards undoing yesterday's wrongs.
Ultimately we all, CASA, the industry and the general public, want safety to be paramount.
These informal meetings will encourage CASA to help us stay on track and help us keep CASA on track.
Mutual respect will be the fruit of this consultative mutual mentoring.
Just as there will be some CASA staff uncomfortable with this shift in direction,
there will also be some operators initially uncomfortable with dealing with CASA in a non confrontational scenario.
This is the most positive and most commendable initiative that Bruce Byron has introduced.
Please, let's all get behind it and support it,
and let the trust, confidence and respect return to an industry where it disappeared years ago.
We have been offered an olive branch, not a Trojan Horse.
Treat it accordingly.
Mainframe and others.
Read the "sticky" on D&G Reporting Points.
There is some rational and reasoned comment to be found.
CASA is sincere in it's desire to reform, but needs our help.
As I have previously stated,
use the "Complaints and Compliments" on CASA's website to either commend or condemn CASA.
If you condemn, present verifiable and factual details.
Nicola Hinder was, in the past, surprised at the animosity held towards CASA.
Now that she is established in her role, she is no longer surprised, but can't deal with what she doesn't yet know about.
Reform is happening, we can't all have our personal grievances attended to,
but a system is being put in place to restore trust,confidence and respect.
BB's initiative of informal visits, a cup of tea and a chat will go a long way towards undoing yesterday's wrongs.
Ultimately we all, CASA, the industry and the general public, want safety to be paramount.
These informal meetings will encourage CASA to help us stay on track and help us keep CASA on track.
Mutual respect will be the fruit of this consultative mutual mentoring.
Just as there will be some CASA staff uncomfortable with this shift in direction,
there will also be some operators initially uncomfortable with dealing with CASA in a non confrontational scenario.
This is the most positive and most commendable initiative that Bruce Byron has introduced.
Please, let's all get behind it and support it,
and let the trust, confidence and respect return to an industry where it disappeared years ago.
We have been offered an olive branch, not a Trojan Horse.
Treat it accordingly.
Check Attitude
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Bit stunned to read in these threads that the Skehill report has effectively wiped the slate clean for the Townsville office.
Exit the ray of sunshine I thought I could see.
The NQ area office investigated itself and found no problems.
CASA investigated itself and found no problems.
As there were no problems, then logically there will be no need for solutions.
Yes, it was a bit unfortunate that all that expense was incurred by the affected,
when in fact there wasn't really a problem after all, just, as Starlight puts it, a silly misunderstanding.
Hopefully someone will have learnt from the problems that never were.
Somehow the old quote "Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done" sounds a little hollow.
Now that the problem that didn't exist has been proven to not exist,
we can all get on with our lives and look forward to Fair and Impartial treatment, Natural Justice
and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Exit the ray of sunshine I thought I could see.
The NQ area office investigated itself and found no problems.
CASA investigated itself and found no problems.
As there were no problems, then logically there will be no need for solutions.
Yes, it was a bit unfortunate that all that expense was incurred by the affected,
when in fact there wasn't really a problem after all, just, as Starlight puts it, a silly misunderstanding.
Hopefully someone will have learnt from the problems that never were.
Somehow the old quote "Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done" sounds a little hollow.
Now that the problem that didn't exist has been proven to not exist,
we can all get on with our lives and look forward to Fair and Impartial treatment, Natural Justice
and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Check Attitude
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Posters to this thread
The sticky on D&G reporting points may be the most appopriate
thread to keep this topic up to date.
However, posters should understand the seriousness of this thread
and therefore attempt to post only relevant matters of interest.
The issues at stake are far too serious for flippant or jocular comment.
As has been previously posted, the regulator is listening, particularly since the
head office revolt, and has extended an olive branch to the industry.
Have no doubt that BB, NH and his team want to set things right.
The Skehill report was a possible gaff that is not likely to be repeated.
It was dismissive and offensive to the genuinely harmed
BB has recently demonstrated that decisive action sends a clearer signal to the rogue element,
and they will slowly understand that unless they can change their spots, and the team they barrack for,
their long term career prospects in CASA are severely limited.
BB and NH need feedback to assist in evaluating the reforms, hopefully mostly good,
and if not so good, factual details to help them remedy
any pockets of counter culture.
The sticky on D&G reporting points may be the most appopriate
thread to keep this topic up to date.
However, posters should understand the seriousness of this thread
and therefore attempt to post only relevant matters of interest.
The issues at stake are far too serious for flippant or jocular comment.
As has been previously posted, the regulator is listening, particularly since the
head office revolt, and has extended an olive branch to the industry.
Have no doubt that BB, NH and his team want to set things right.
The Skehill report was a possible gaff that is not likely to be repeated.
It was dismissive and offensive to the genuinely harmed
BB has recently demonstrated that decisive action sends a clearer signal to the rogue element,
and they will slowly understand that unless they can change their spots, and the team they barrack for,
their long term career prospects in CASA are severely limited.
BB and NH need feedback to assist in evaluating the reforms, hopefully mostly good,
and if not so good, factual details to help them remedy
any pockets of counter culture.
Thread Starter
Actually, I think that CASA is doing just fine at the moment. The FNQ investigation didn't produce much ().
Aopa just needs to become relevent again and we can start building a safety culture such as Sunfish remembers existed in the 70'S and 80's , or perhaps I am an optimist.
As Tiny Tim said:"God Bless Us Every One"
Aopa just needs to become relevent again and we can start building a safety culture such as Sunfish remembers existed in the 70'S and 80's , or perhaps I am an optimist.
As Tiny Tim said:"God Bless Us Every One"
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Thank you Mainframe and Sunfish
I have been trying to work out how to merge the various threads on this topic but each has has it's own separate "theme".
The consensus seems to be emerging that the naysayers and blowhards have had their day and it's time to move on.
I think this is probably an appropriate point to terminate this thread and concentrate our attention on the positive results it has produced.
Go here: shall we and lets see what more constructive input we can make.
CASA reply to PPRuNe email re TVL.
Fell free though to start another thread if you have a specific CASA issue to address, we would prefer though that it starts out with a brief description of the problem and a constructive request for input rather than the tired old "we'll all be rooned" polemic and rhetoric. There is another forum available that will love you to bits, if that is your thing.
We are, as always open to your comments direct to us if you feel that we need to reopen or continue a thread.
I have been trying to work out how to merge the various threads on this topic but each has has it's own separate "theme".
The consensus seems to be emerging that the naysayers and blowhards have had their day and it's time to move on.
I think this is probably an appropriate point to terminate this thread and concentrate our attention on the positive results it has produced.
Go here: shall we and lets see what more constructive input we can make.
CASA reply to PPRuNe email re TVL.
Fell free though to start another thread if you have a specific CASA issue to address, we would prefer though that it starts out with a brief description of the problem and a constructive request for input rather than the tired old "we'll all be rooned" polemic and rhetoric. There is another forum available that will love you to bits, if that is your thing.
We are, as always open to your comments direct to us if you feel that we need to reopen or continue a thread.
