Flying a DME arc
Grandpa Aerotart
Thanks guys...as for the marker beacons, it's been so long since I used one I was really scraping the bottom of the memory banks to remember how they work...too used to DME check hieghts and or locator style OMs.
As for my stock answer to the "Any Questions" end to a brief I've found the following usually dumbfounds the PF.
"Yeah I have a question....when the Darlecks invaded why didn't everyone just move upstairs?"
As for my stock answer to the "Any Questions" end to a brief I've found the following usually dumbfounds the PF.
"Yeah I have a question....when the Darlecks invaded why didn't everyone just move upstairs?"
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 1st Nov 2004 at 09:48.
Grandpa Aerotart
Ok you've had a little time to digest that so lets move on to some other interesting stuff. I just got back from 2 back to back Europe Long hauls with just a few days off in between, which is why I've been away from the 'puter mostly for the last few weeks...and why I'm wide awake at 0300LT 
BTW agree entirely with Chimbu Warrior reference briefing things like the type of HIALS you expect and especially whether you are going to be looking at PAPI or T VASIS when you break into the gloop at minima....they are significantly different and confusion could reign for precious seconds if you are expecting one and get the other.
Further to approach briefs...obviously I used an ILS as a initial example and I'm sure you could fill in the blanks for a VOR or NDB/GPS NPA.
Two really important things to be aware of when flying IFR, especially SP IFR.
1/. Various things go together naturally and you must develope the mental discipline/habit of putting them together. For instance when briefing a NPA you talk about outbound track/timing/alt restrictions and inbound track on the way to the minima as per the ILS.
"From overhead we'll track xyz for 2 minutes then a left turn established inbound 123 not below 2000' "
For an NDB in the navaids part of the brief I'd put RMI selectors and ident monitoring together.
"Navaids...I have ADF 1 & 2 tuned identified xyz, RMI selectors ADF, ident on/volumn set." It flows logically through all the related steps required to be set up for the NDB approach and lessens the chances of forgetting something important...you could fly a flawless NDB approach from a tracking/speed/configuration/alt management point of view and fail the whole excercise because the ident wasn't monitored....ask me how I know
For the VOR case it would be simply "Nav 1 & 2 tuned idented on xyz, course bar 123, RMI selectors VOR.
The habit must be to link the RMI selectors inextricably with the tuning of the navaids. And think outside the square...the missed approach for an ILS/VOR approach might be based on tracking to an NDB a little away from the field and completely removed from the area where you started the ILS..you'd need the ADFs tuned there and the RMI needles on ADF...or perhaps one on ADF and one on VOR.
I have watched an F/O on a Bizjet, during a licence renewal NDB approach, try and do an NDB approach with the RMI selectors on VOR and the 'bearing' function in the EFIS Nav display (which he was trying to cheat with) set to the wrong datum...it was a debacle of monumental proportions...he was having a real bad day and I'd even tried to help him when I saw where things were heading...I flew the aircraft while he settled himself and when he was 'happy' asked him where the NDB was (we were pointing right at it about 5nm to run)...."4DME off the left wing" he confidently replied.
"OK xxxxx you have control"
2/. Workload/time management.
A good example is a VOR approach where I would have the HSI CDI set to the inbound track/radial and the RMI selectors on VOR and then fly the outbound leg on the RMI (sorta NDB style). Where you select the CDI over to the inbound radial prior to the FAF is up to you...obviously if you're in the hold you could track inbound to the FAF on the RMI needles and have the final inbound course set up by the end of previous outbound leg of the hold. If planning to go straight into the approach you could just set it a mile or two before the aid.
"Within 25 DME and above MSA I'll divert left/right and establish inbound to the aid on the 270 radial" (outbound in the approach = 090 radial)
The bottom line is have it set up in such a way that, other than starting timing if required, all you are doing is flying the aircraft, monitoring track and extending the undercarriage when appropriate.
In the C402,C404,Aerostar, Queenair, Cessna Conquest 2 (C441) and E110 (Banderante) , all of which I flew SP IFR (yes even the Bandit, SP IFR RPT), I might hit the IAF at 170 KIAS and then decelerate outbound to be 130 KIAS/approach flaps set turning inbound to the FAF...all trimed out, Navaids set as above. At the FAF/final descent point all I had to do was lower the gear and then lower the nose a fraction to maintain130KIAS/trim and the aircraft descended outbound (or down the ILS) at pretty much the required rate. I didn't have to touch/change or adjust anything (baring minor pitch/power/trim changes) throughout the approach until the minima...if visual extend landing flap if not go around....and on an ILS to low minimas I'd land with approach flaps set rather than unsettle the aircraft a few 100' up....or if circling off a NDB/VOR I'm in the correct config to circle...particularly assy...and if not assy I'd merely set landing flap abeam the landing threshold, trim and fly base/finals more head out than in. Circling at night/minimal vis at low altitudes is REALLY seriously dangerous stuff. Set it up so you just have to fly the plane with head out most of the time and just quick glances inside to check alt/vsi/asi.
It was endlessly interesting that the same speeds/technique worked equally well in that whole list of aircraft....some days I might have flown three of them on the same day on different scheduled runs. There will be a similar config/speed combo that works for your semenhole and say a Duchess you need to know it...hint: later when you start flying Barons and above try the 130kts/approach flap method above, it works in Barons too.
Time/workload management is what IFR is all about. Make it easy on yourself. Have you checklists finished in good time...say before descending below MSA/LSA...all you (should) need SP on IFR finals is a PUFF check.
If you like I could rave on a bit about;
Calculating what you should be able to see when you get to a minima, of whatever value, and only have (possibly) the min required vis...i.e how do you decide if a missed approach is required.
Calculating ISA Devn correction to a baro altimeter so you can confidently predict what it WILL read at the OM/DME Check hieght as opposed to what the chart says it will read (which it almost never will read), within altimeter tolerance (ball park) anyway. How does it effect you obstacle clearance when flying at MSA/LSA?
More on profiles. (outside the terms and reference of getting you through your check ride in a few weeks)
It may not seem like it but I'm actually trying to be a bit of a minimalist and not overload your head. But good habits learnt early will prove themselves when you go for an airline interview/sim ride one day and can do it the way airlines expect it to be done. If that's where you're hoping to end up...if not then just surviving doing it possibly long enough to be an old coward.
IFR flying is (should be) incredibly precise...even Non precision Approaches can be flown to amazing tolerances when you know how...for instance the whole approach flown to a DME profile based on the minima + a correction that ensure you don't blow any limiting altitudes...but without having to refer to the chart once past the FAF. Constant Angle Non precision Approaches done similarly.
It's sorta a shame but the 'artistry' of flying approaches has been designed out of flying them once you get to a Boeing or Airbus. If you watched me flying an NDB approach in the 767 you'd be hard pressed to tell it was an NDB and not an ILS!!! It's actually difficult to envisage a situation here I would be forced to fly one on the route network I fly...we basically do one every 6 months in the Sim and that's it.
I fondly
remember doing DME Homing and DME Letdowns (no azimuth aid) for real in really crap weather SP in Bandits etc, not even legal these days....calculating accurate groundspeed in your head by watching an old Van5-8 DME for 36 seconds...easy BTW 2.0nm in 36 seconds = 200kts....36 seconds being 1/100th of an hour
Flight Idle/Gliding NDB approaches from 10000' overhead the aid in an F28 and never touching the thrust levers until spool up at 1000' agl, configured and on speed at the minima all spot on. Having to calculate a dme profile that would allow the above including knowing precisely how much altitude the aircraft lost in the base turn of the NPA and that a procedure turn had twice as many track miles as a base turn therefore twice as much altitude loss.
I love the 767 but we don't fly too many approaches by hand...if the weather is nice we disconnect at 500-1000'...if there's no possibility of having to go around...for the next 5 months or more in Europe, especially Frankfurt we're just as likely to be doing a Cat 2/3a autoland to a 15' DH (or a 3b with no DH) and then find our way to the parking spot with a white cane. I get lot's of professional satisfaction in a 767 but I used to get pure joy flying an NDB in a piston/turbine twin alone
PS Do NOT be discouraged if your initial attempts to give a word perfect briefing to your instructor founder on the rocks of mumbled semi confusion. Reading what I have described may sound easy but they require practice. I have been doing these styles of briefs in two crew ops for 10 years (and IFR SP for 8 years before that) and still occasionally, at the end of a 12 hr sector for instance, they don't quite exit my mouth as I would have liked.
Get out the charts, study them looking for all the points I have discussed, plan what you're going to do, write out the RANN and that other nmeumonic as a verticle list, fill out the info required next to each letter. Any notes in obscure corners of the TAC chart?? You get some funny things from time to time...an example being the speed limits below 10000' in the Kuala Lumpur Terminal Area are on The Singapore TAC not the KL one...don't ask me I don't know why!!!
Sit in front of a mirror and give the brief out loud to yourself so you can listen to how it sounds and modify as necesary.
I am certain your instructor will have given you the next route to be flown days ahead of time...you should pitch up to the holding point with a bulletproof plan...not a surprise to be had.
One of these days you'll be able to plan it all out after 10-20 minutes of looking for the required bits of essential info you need among the pertenant charts enroute to a place you've never heard of 'till 2 hrs before wheels up. The whole reason for the existance of the IFR system is to allow you to fly anywhere anytime and do it consistently and precisely...I well remember a pilot in a company I worked for complaining bitterly that the CP required his presence at home base to do his IR renewal rather than the CP coming to his base to do it...his reasoning being that he was used to the NDB approach where he lived and it was unfair for him to have to do it where he rarely flew...we listened in dumbfounded amazment.
BTW agree entirely with Chimbu Warrior reference briefing things like the type of HIALS you expect and especially whether you are going to be looking at PAPI or T VASIS when you break into the gloop at minima....they are significantly different and confusion could reign for precious seconds if you are expecting one and get the other.
Further to approach briefs...obviously I used an ILS as a initial example and I'm sure you could fill in the blanks for a VOR or NDB/GPS NPA.
Two really important things to be aware of when flying IFR, especially SP IFR.
1/. Various things go together naturally and you must develope the mental discipline/habit of putting them together. For instance when briefing a NPA you talk about outbound track/timing/alt restrictions and inbound track on the way to the minima as per the ILS.
"From overhead we'll track xyz for 2 minutes then a left turn established inbound 123 not below 2000' "
For an NDB in the navaids part of the brief I'd put RMI selectors and ident monitoring together.
"Navaids...I have ADF 1 & 2 tuned identified xyz, RMI selectors ADF, ident on/volumn set." It flows logically through all the related steps required to be set up for the NDB approach and lessens the chances of forgetting something important...you could fly a flawless NDB approach from a tracking/speed/configuration/alt management point of view and fail the whole excercise because the ident wasn't monitored....ask me how I know
For the VOR case it would be simply "Nav 1 & 2 tuned idented on xyz, course bar 123, RMI selectors VOR.
The habit must be to link the RMI selectors inextricably with the tuning of the navaids. And think outside the square...the missed approach for an ILS/VOR approach might be based on tracking to an NDB a little away from the field and completely removed from the area where you started the ILS..you'd need the ADFs tuned there and the RMI needles on ADF...or perhaps one on ADF and one on VOR.
I have watched an F/O on a Bizjet, during a licence renewal NDB approach, try and do an NDB approach with the RMI selectors on VOR and the 'bearing' function in the EFIS Nav display (which he was trying to cheat with) set to the wrong datum...it was a debacle of monumental proportions...he was having a real bad day and I'd even tried to help him when I saw where things were heading...I flew the aircraft while he settled himself and when he was 'happy' asked him where the NDB was (we were pointing right at it about 5nm to run)...."4DME off the left wing" he confidently replied.
"OK xxxxx you have control"
2/. Workload/time management.
A good example is a VOR approach where I would have the HSI CDI set to the inbound track/radial and the RMI selectors on VOR and then fly the outbound leg on the RMI (sorta NDB style). Where you select the CDI over to the inbound radial prior to the FAF is up to you...obviously if you're in the hold you could track inbound to the FAF on the RMI needles and have the final inbound course set up by the end of previous outbound leg of the hold. If planning to go straight into the approach you could just set it a mile or two before the aid.
"Within 25 DME and above MSA I'll divert left/right and establish inbound to the aid on the 270 radial" (outbound in the approach = 090 radial)
The bottom line is have it set up in such a way that, other than starting timing if required, all you are doing is flying the aircraft, monitoring track and extending the undercarriage when appropriate.
In the C402,C404,Aerostar, Queenair, Cessna Conquest 2 (C441) and E110 (Banderante) , all of which I flew SP IFR (yes even the Bandit, SP IFR RPT), I might hit the IAF at 170 KIAS and then decelerate outbound to be 130 KIAS/approach flaps set turning inbound to the FAF...all trimed out, Navaids set as above. At the FAF/final descent point all I had to do was lower the gear and then lower the nose a fraction to maintain130KIAS/trim and the aircraft descended outbound (or down the ILS) at pretty much the required rate. I didn't have to touch/change or adjust anything (baring minor pitch/power/trim changes) throughout the approach until the minima...if visual extend landing flap if not go around....and on an ILS to low minimas I'd land with approach flaps set rather than unsettle the aircraft a few 100' up....or if circling off a NDB/VOR I'm in the correct config to circle...particularly assy...and if not assy I'd merely set landing flap abeam the landing threshold, trim and fly base/finals more head out than in. Circling at night/minimal vis at low altitudes is REALLY seriously dangerous stuff. Set it up so you just have to fly the plane with head out most of the time and just quick glances inside to check alt/vsi/asi.
It was endlessly interesting that the same speeds/technique worked equally well in that whole list of aircraft....some days I might have flown three of them on the same day on different scheduled runs. There will be a similar config/speed combo that works for your semenhole and say a Duchess you need to know it...hint: later when you start flying Barons and above try the 130kts/approach flap method above, it works in Barons too.
Time/workload management is what IFR is all about. Make it easy on yourself. Have you checklists finished in good time...say before descending below MSA/LSA...all you (should) need SP on IFR finals is a PUFF check.
If you like I could rave on a bit about;
Calculating what you should be able to see when you get to a minima, of whatever value, and only have (possibly) the min required vis...i.e how do you decide if a missed approach is required.
Calculating ISA Devn correction to a baro altimeter so you can confidently predict what it WILL read at the OM/DME Check hieght as opposed to what the chart says it will read (which it almost never will read), within altimeter tolerance (ball park) anyway. How does it effect you obstacle clearance when flying at MSA/LSA?
More on profiles. (outside the terms and reference of getting you through your check ride in a few weeks)
It may not seem like it but I'm actually trying to be a bit of a minimalist and not overload your head. But good habits learnt early will prove themselves when you go for an airline interview/sim ride one day and can do it the way airlines expect it to be done. If that's where you're hoping to end up...if not then just surviving doing it possibly long enough to be an old coward.
IFR flying is (should be) incredibly precise...even Non precision Approaches can be flown to amazing tolerances when you know how...for instance the whole approach flown to a DME profile based on the minima + a correction that ensure you don't blow any limiting altitudes...but without having to refer to the chart once past the FAF. Constant Angle Non precision Approaches done similarly.
It's sorta a shame but the 'artistry' of flying approaches has been designed out of flying them once you get to a Boeing or Airbus. If you watched me flying an NDB approach in the 767 you'd be hard pressed to tell it was an NDB and not an ILS!!! It's actually difficult to envisage a situation here I would be forced to fly one on the route network I fly...we basically do one every 6 months in the Sim and that's it.
I fondly
remember doing DME Homing and DME Letdowns (no azimuth aid) for real in really crap weather SP in Bandits etc, not even legal these days....calculating accurate groundspeed in your head by watching an old Van5-8 DME for 36 seconds...easy BTW 2.0nm in 36 seconds = 200kts....36 seconds being 1/100th of an hour Flight Idle/Gliding NDB approaches from 10000' overhead the aid in an F28 and never touching the thrust levers until spool up at 1000' agl, configured and on speed at the minima all spot on. Having to calculate a dme profile that would allow the above including knowing precisely how much altitude the aircraft lost in the base turn of the NPA and that a procedure turn had twice as many track miles as a base turn therefore twice as much altitude loss.
I love the 767 but we don't fly too many approaches by hand...if the weather is nice we disconnect at 500-1000'...if there's no possibility of having to go around...for the next 5 months or more in Europe, especially Frankfurt we're just as likely to be doing a Cat 2/3a autoland to a 15' DH (or a 3b with no DH) and then find our way to the parking spot with a white cane. I get lot's of professional satisfaction in a 767 but I used to get pure joy flying an NDB in a piston/turbine twin alone
PS Do NOT be discouraged if your initial attempts to give a word perfect briefing to your instructor founder on the rocks of mumbled semi confusion. Reading what I have described may sound easy but they require practice. I have been doing these styles of briefs in two crew ops for 10 years (and IFR SP for 8 years before that) and still occasionally, at the end of a 12 hr sector for instance, they don't quite exit my mouth as I would have liked.
Get out the charts, study them looking for all the points I have discussed, plan what you're going to do, write out the RANN and that other nmeumonic as a verticle list, fill out the info required next to each letter. Any notes in obscure corners of the TAC chart?? You get some funny things from time to time...an example being the speed limits below 10000' in the Kuala Lumpur Terminal Area are on The Singapore TAC not the KL one...don't ask me I don't know why!!!
Sit in front of a mirror and give the brief out loud to yourself so you can listen to how it sounds and modify as necesary.
I am certain your instructor will have given you the next route to be flown days ahead of time...you should pitch up to the holding point with a bulletproof plan...not a surprise to be had.
One of these days you'll be able to plan it all out after 10-20 minutes of looking for the required bits of essential info you need among the pertenant charts enroute to a place you've never heard of 'till 2 hrs before wheels up. The whole reason for the existance of the IFR system is to allow you to fly anywhere anytime and do it consistently and precisely...I well remember a pilot in a company I worked for complaining bitterly that the CP required his presence at home base to do his IR renewal rather than the CP coming to his base to do it...his reasoning being that he was used to the NDB approach where he lived and it was unfair for him to have to do it where he rarely flew...we listened in dumbfounded amazment.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 5th Nov 2004 at 07:57.
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As for my stock answer to the "Any Questions" end to a brief I've found the following usually dumbfounds the PF.
Chief: Any questions Max?
Max: Yes,can you repeat what you said after 'now listen carefully'.
Nice work chimbu
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As for my stock answer to the "Any Questions" end to a brief I've found the following usually dumbfounds the PF.
"What was your name again?"
"So, same as last week?"
"Did you know that (insert cute flight attendant's name) peroxides her bum hole?"
=============================
Chimbu, great stuff.
For variations on a theme, our company briefs in a different order to your suggested, but covering the same considerations, ie:
Normal departure,
Navaid and cockpit setup to achieve the normal departure,
Emergency brief:
- RTO
- Failure at/after V1
- Return to land emergency (fire airborne, etc)
Thinking seems to be that the emergency actions are freshest, being the last items discussed.
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Chuckles,
My only bone of contention was:
When the ILS approach stops being "perfectly good" and requires a localiser approach, I go around and start again because a LLZ involves more than just a different minima. There are invariably a number of altitude steps and we use simplified approach slopes rather than 320 fpnm. There are different considerations at the bottom (MDA vs DA) and we set our ALTSEL/RAs differently for NPAs.
If your aircraft goes slow enough, it is not so much of a drama - but be very wary of the trap of pressing on.....
Stay Alive,
My only bone of contention was:
Also good idea to brief the localiser only minima for an ILS in case the G/S fails..why throw away a perfectly good approach?..if you brief the higher minima just reset the bug and continue.
If your aircraft goes slow enough, it is not so much of a drama - but be very wary of the trap of pressing on.....
Stay Alive,
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I've been in the situation a few times in the past too-many years here. I was already quite familiar with the LLZ approaches here, before the first time that it became necessary. As Chuck will confirm, in this place it's just simpler to keep the approach going if you can!
Horses for courses, for sure, as I know that there are some places where the LLZ approach requires observance of several DME steps. Not the same problem here, so it was quite safe. The key, I believe is to include consideration of DME step-downs but that should be covered in the LLZ-only briefing.
I think that this might be the point that Chuck was making.
Horses for courses, for sure, as I know that there are some places where the LLZ approach requires observance of several DME steps. Not the same problem here, so it was quite safe. The key, I believe is to include consideration of DME step-downs but that should be covered in the LLZ-only briefing.
I think that this might be the point that Chuck was making.
Grandpa Aerotart
On the 767300er, which is what I fly, we brief both...if the glideslope fails, on a cat 1 ILS, we continue in VS and use the green 'banana' to ensure we bust no alt limitations...also bug up to LLZ only minima + 50'.
Yes the technology makes it easier in some respects but a LLZ approach is not a 'dive and drive' DME arrival style of approach. If there are several dme/ht limitations in the LLZ approach and you haven't got fancy EFIS with EOD predictive arcs etc then have in your mind a suitable dme profile...or bug up to the new minima + and start reading the dme/ht profile chart at the bottom of the plate.
Ok if you're single pilot and the autopilot is u/s best to perhaps go around rather than press on...but if you're prepared properly and the G/S flag pops out you can continue. As an example the ILS/DME rwy 16L at YSSY using ISS DME.
The altitude limitations for a LLZ only approach are not below 1700' until D6.0 and not below 1000' until D3.5. Both of these are below the GS and lower than a straight 3x profile. The DME/ht chart just below the plan view of the approach is NOT a succession of limitations merely a guide. A quick glance indicates that inside D10.0 the profile reduces from 3x + 175' at D8.0 (2575') to 3x +30 at D2.0 (630') and 3x+30' at D1.5 (480').
If we fly the whole approach at 3x+30' we do not bust any limitations...the most limiting being the one at D3.5 we would be at 1080'.
A quick glance at the Newcastle plate suggests a 3x-200 profile would work a treat and not go anywhere near busting a limitation....1300' until D6.0 and minima 460' (+ a bit for mum) D2.2. If working with forecast QNH make it a 3x-100 profile.
It took less time to work this stuff out than it does to write it and not a lot more than it takes to read it. Write the profile down on the chart as an aid memoire.
In the 767 because of the sheer size and inertia we must add 50' to the LLZ MDA to ensure we DO NOT decend below 480'...in a Duchess probably 30' would suffice. A 3x +30' profile will have you at the MDA (actually 30' above it) at D1.6...just about perfect.
So I'm tooling down the 16L ILS (SP in a Baron, a/p broke 2 hours ago) at D9.0 and the G/S flag pops into view...moment of choice...hit the taps and go around with all that entails...or rebug to 510' and say to myself 3x 8 = 2430'...cool all is good...3x7= 2130'...fecking wonderfull...3x6=1830'...this is getting boring...and on to the minima where I'll hopefully break visual...or if I don't I simply do what I might have done earlier...I'm trying to add up the number of occassions in my career when I haven't got visual....maybe 4 times!!!
Personally I'd rather land than go around for no really good reason and then be vectored all over the place and start again from scratch...on possibly a different approach which I'll have to brief while hand flying this sumbitch.
And if I'd gone around at D9.0? Well I'd have needed to track 155 until D0.6 anyway...might as well have a look on the way past!
Questions...suggestions?
Chuck.
PS So how IS thrustmaster going..passed yet dude?
Yes the technology makes it easier in some respects but a LLZ approach is not a 'dive and drive' DME arrival style of approach. If there are several dme/ht limitations in the LLZ approach and you haven't got fancy EFIS with EOD predictive arcs etc then have in your mind a suitable dme profile...or bug up to the new minima + and start reading the dme/ht profile chart at the bottom of the plate.
Ok if you're single pilot and the autopilot is u/s best to perhaps go around rather than press on...but if you're prepared properly and the G/S flag pops out you can continue. As an example the ILS/DME rwy 16L at YSSY using ISS DME.
The altitude limitations for a LLZ only approach are not below 1700' until D6.0 and not below 1000' until D3.5. Both of these are below the GS and lower than a straight 3x profile. The DME/ht chart just below the plan view of the approach is NOT a succession of limitations merely a guide. A quick glance indicates that inside D10.0 the profile reduces from 3x + 175' at D8.0 (2575') to 3x +30 at D2.0 (630') and 3x+30' at D1.5 (480').
If we fly the whole approach at 3x+30' we do not bust any limitations...the most limiting being the one at D3.5 we would be at 1080'.
A quick glance at the Newcastle plate suggests a 3x-200 profile would work a treat and not go anywhere near busting a limitation....1300' until D6.0 and minima 460' (+ a bit for mum) D2.2. If working with forecast QNH make it a 3x-100 profile.
It took less time to work this stuff out than it does to write it and not a lot more than it takes to read it. Write the profile down on the chart as an aid memoire.
In the 767 because of the sheer size and inertia we must add 50' to the LLZ MDA to ensure we DO NOT decend below 480'...in a Duchess probably 30' would suffice. A 3x +30' profile will have you at the MDA (actually 30' above it) at D1.6...just about perfect.
So I'm tooling down the 16L ILS (SP in a Baron, a/p broke 2 hours ago) at D9.0 and the G/S flag pops into view...moment of choice...hit the taps and go around with all that entails...or rebug to 510' and say to myself 3x 8 = 2430'...cool all is good...3x7= 2130'...fecking wonderfull...3x6=1830'...this is getting boring...and on to the minima where I'll hopefully break visual...or if I don't I simply do what I might have done earlier...I'm trying to add up the number of occassions in my career when I haven't got visual....maybe 4 times!!!
Personally I'd rather land than go around for no really good reason and then be vectored all over the place and start again from scratch...on possibly a different approach which I'll have to brief while hand flying this sumbitch.
And if I'd gone around at D9.0? Well I'd have needed to track 155 until D0.6 anyway...might as well have a look on the way past!
Questions...suggestions?
Chuck.
PS So how IS thrustmaster going..passed yet dude?
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 15th Dec 2004 at 03:18.
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Spot on CC
I fly Single pilot IFR day/night/whatever and use the profile calc you describe, works a treat on anything with a distance/height scale. Especially at night when reducing the amount of head down reading/checking height profile stuff can only be good
I fly Single pilot IFR day/night/whatever and use the profile calc you describe, works a treat on anything with a distance/height scale. Especially at night when reducing the amount of head down reading/checking height profile stuff can only be good
