Any JETSTAR News ??
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OZstrayliya
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newbe
What a surprising outburst!
Your misinformed assumptions about me are completely wrong and quite illogical if I may say so.
Why would someone discuss shoestring budgets to live on, that they had paid for their quals, etc. and mention a modest salary if they were a "rich kid / mummys boy / whatever"?
I submit you wouldn't have the foggiest damn idea what I am doing about anything and for the record, I AM doing something, HERE: persuading, arguing, debating, discussing, talking about conditions on a F O R U M - that's what this is - a place where people d i s c u s s things.
As a matter of fact, I do discuss matters of my employment with my employer, with my colleagues and are a member of the Federation.
You know, I find it funny how most things can often be sorted out by reasonable discussion and behaviour but most people don't seem to have the guts to bring these sorts of things out in the open with their bosses or with others.
newbe, we are not powerless automaton slaves who have no choice in life but to take it or leave it. NO! We DO have a choice in life and it seems to me, that if more people were prepared to say to a boss pushing some dodgy arrangement "Is that your offer? Are you kidding? Shove it up your clacker!!" that conditions would improve generally. It may take a bit of time but eventually the wheel would turn and the industry would improve.
No! It is ONLY an employers market because people ALLOW themselves to be bent over and poked! If you don't accept a dirty deal, you keep your dignity and eventually will find a better offer.
Pilots in my view are their own worst enemies. Climbing over the guy next to you might get you the job by accepting some sham employment basis but one day (if you luck out on the airlines or whatever), you might find yourself stuck in a cesspool that you may begin to wish that a few less people were willing to take peanuts and a few more stand up for their rights and the interests of their fellow man.
I'd love to be in a jet-job. But it should be clear from my post that I wouldn't want to pay for one. Why? Number 1, because I don't have the finance to do so. Add to that, I think it is an employer's responsibility.
DehavillandDriver may be right about cutting off one's nose to spite their own face but that really is just a sad reflection of what we collectively have allowed ourselves to accept.
As I mentioned previously, I have no problem with being bonded or on a training salary for a period of time to return to an employer his investment in me, but I personally do not agree at all with the concept of "pay-me-for-your-job".
Sure, you can take VB for a while then run off with your 1 or 2000 hours on a 737 to Cathay. But what will you do if Cathay starts to take the GA way? Its already happened in Qantas with Jetstar but not with Eastern.
Why? Because on the one hand some are quite happy to accept a poor offer at the expense of others. On the other hand, others are willing to stand up for their rights and preserve their reasonable conditions by negotiating a solid EBA.
Employers love the divide and conquer tactic because once they get an inch, a mile is inevitably taken.
Today the economy is travelling well. The business cycle is buoyant. Jobs are plentiful (by aviation's standards anyway). Why are we settling for peanuts?
Fear. Fear that we'll miss out and someone else will get it instead. My question is, if the deal is dodgy, why are we worried about that to begin with?
How long does one prostitute themselves for before enough is enough?
TJ
What a surprising outburst!
Your misinformed assumptions about me are completely wrong and quite illogical if I may say so.
Why would someone discuss shoestring budgets to live on, that they had paid for their quals, etc. and mention a modest salary if they were a "rich kid / mummys boy / whatever"?
I submit you wouldn't have the foggiest damn idea what I am doing about anything and for the record, I AM doing something, HERE: persuading, arguing, debating, discussing, talking about conditions on a F O R U M - that's what this is - a place where people d i s c u s s things.
As a matter of fact, I do discuss matters of my employment with my employer, with my colleagues and are a member of the Federation.
You know, I find it funny how most things can often be sorted out by reasonable discussion and behaviour but most people don't seem to have the guts to bring these sorts of things out in the open with their bosses or with others.
newbe, we are not powerless automaton slaves who have no choice in life but to take it or leave it. NO! We DO have a choice in life and it seems to me, that if more people were prepared to say to a boss pushing some dodgy arrangement "Is that your offer? Are you kidding? Shove it up your clacker!!" that conditions would improve generally. It may take a bit of time but eventually the wheel would turn and the industry would improve.
No! It is ONLY an employers market because people ALLOW themselves to be bent over and poked! If you don't accept a dirty deal, you keep your dignity and eventually will find a better offer.
Pilots in my view are their own worst enemies. Climbing over the guy next to you might get you the job by accepting some sham employment basis but one day (if you luck out on the airlines or whatever), you might find yourself stuck in a cesspool that you may begin to wish that a few less people were willing to take peanuts and a few more stand up for their rights and the interests of their fellow man.
I'd love to be in a jet-job. But it should be clear from my post that I wouldn't want to pay for one. Why? Number 1, because I don't have the finance to do so. Add to that, I think it is an employer's responsibility.
DehavillandDriver may be right about cutting off one's nose to spite their own face but that really is just a sad reflection of what we collectively have allowed ourselves to accept.
As I mentioned previously, I have no problem with being bonded or on a training salary for a period of time to return to an employer his investment in me, but I personally do not agree at all with the concept of "pay-me-for-your-job".
Sure, you can take VB for a while then run off with your 1 or 2000 hours on a 737 to Cathay. But what will you do if Cathay starts to take the GA way? Its already happened in Qantas with Jetstar but not with Eastern.
Why? Because on the one hand some are quite happy to accept a poor offer at the expense of others. On the other hand, others are willing to stand up for their rights and preserve their reasonable conditions by negotiating a solid EBA.
Employers love the divide and conquer tactic because once they get an inch, a mile is inevitably taken.
Today the economy is travelling well. The business cycle is buoyant. Jobs are plentiful (by aviation's standards anyway). Why are we settling for peanuts?
Fear. Fear that we'll miss out and someone else will get it instead. My question is, if the deal is dodgy, why are we worried about that to begin with?
How long does one prostitute themselves for before enough is enough?
TJ
