Warren Sattler claims there is a "critical" NZ pilot shortage

[Cypher]

So the regionals are whinging that the experience of applicants is dropping.. well what the #$@ do you expect...! And how the heck is a cadet scheme going to help when they're complaining that the applicant experience base is dropping?
There simply isn't a large amount of G.A jobs in which to get the experience. Those that do get a G.A job work d@mn hard to get it and put up with incredible cr@p conditions.

There isn't much of a strong G.A industry here. It's a mare just trying to hire a twin in this country! There simply aren't that many left.

I fail to see Sattler's arguement that by bring the loan scheme back in will solve this problem of pilot supply, flooding an already saturated employment market in G.A.

We get the loan scheme back and Tom, Dick and Harry can do their training, so what. They come out of flight school after terrorizing the Ardmore circuit, and then what?

They do an instructor rating, hang around Ardmore attempting to instruct, watering down an already weak and inexperienced instructor experience base and teach their students the same bad habits and lack of experience that they had. Great. So where the heck does this tie in with a pilot supply shortage?

The only winner I see outta this is the flying school owner...

[vedder]

This is getting very interesting.

My thoughts are that perhaps some of the training schools are trying to create a climate of panic about the lack of pilots......I don't see any of the airlines panicing yet.

They may be hiring at a consistant rate and have maybe lowered their min requirements, which is great for the boys and girls, but I am still yet to see an airline advertise in a paper!!!!!

To my knowledge there are still plenty of experienced NZ pilots looking to come back if the oportunity presents itself.

I would love to know how many pilots are out there looking for work or have given up trying.

[Cloud Cutter]

Cypher

I agree that there is a bottleneck caused by the lack of a decent GA sector (particularly light twin ops) in NZ. I too find the talk about a lack of CPLs difficult to swallow, but that's what is being put forward.

The idea behind a cadet scheme is that candidates are rigorously screaned before selection, and training is done by very experienced (usually ex-airline) instructors - this is what companies like CTC do for european airlines. No one is suggesting that an airline would take just any new CPL.

[Oktas8]

There can't be many countries left where airline hiring is supported by GA career progression. Australia & NZ still fit the description, but NZ not for much longer I think.

I too find the talk about a lack of CPLs difficult to swallow, but that's what is being put forward.

Insert well trained at one point in the above sentence, and the airline claims become a lot more believable.

I think cadet schemes are the most likely long-term outcome. Wish I'd had an highly experienced instructor when I learned to fly. Wish I was one myself, for that matter. But in NZ I could count those that fit the description on my fingers... And most of those would refuse to work for a flying school, on the basis that either a) the money is too low or b) they can't believe that a flying school can pay the money they want and stay afloat. Massey tried to build on this model, but unfortunately put academics in charge.

[ALLBLACK]

Ohh No him again

This is the most cunning man I met in my Aviation life , bugger knows how to trick people and get them to AFS and leave then like Piece of **** just floating around the school ,,,

So do we still need to take this guy serously , he is got one foot in the grave and one foot at Ardmore ,,,

[Cloud Cutter]

ALLBLACK

You obviously don't know him very well. He takes a genuine interest in his student's/instructor's careers.

[Heres Waldo]

Geeeezzzzzzzz...................................

I would trust that bugga as far as you can kick him


hw



Cheers Toddler, I'll kick the old girl in the guts for that one.

Beauty

[Kaptain Kinkey]

Rudder

Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder, Rudder , Rudder RUDDERRUDDERRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder, Rudder , Rudder RUDDER RUDDERrudderrudderRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder,Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder,Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder,der,RUDDERRUDDERRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder, Rudder , Rudder RUDDER RUDDERrudderrudderRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder,Rudder, Rudder, RudderRUDDERRUDDERRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder, Rudder , Rudder RUDDER RUDDERrudderrudderRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder,Rudder, Rudder, RudderRUDDERRUDDERRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder, Rudder , Rudder RUDDER RUDDERrudderrudderRudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, Rudder, rudder,Rudder, Rudder, Rudder

WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT THE HELL A RUDDER IS?
it's some part off a boat or what is'nt it?

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hey Waldo

Be veeerrryyy careful with mentioning that here on pprune. Sure, every single person on Ardmore airfield has heard the pub talk and stories, but when you're discussing people the rules are to stick with verifiable information in the public domain if you don't want the thread pulled and a bunch of trouble for Danny

Let's stick with playing the ball not the man here.

[Kaptain Kinkey]

Arrrrr Hey this should be on that program on TV 1 Wed 8;30,

[dudduddud]

I think this entire thread is about 'playing the man'.

How many of those who have posted so far have the industry experience of Mr WS? I'd say zero.

The statistics as Mr SkyToddler et al. present them tend to support his argument but we have to bear in mind that the whole industry has been in a cyclical depression since 2000, augmented by 9/11. Just because there isn't a glut of positions available right now doesn't mean there isn't going to be one in 6, 12 or 24 months from now.

Further... Nowhere in the article did i note the word 'critical' least of all from an inference from Mr Sattler. You were quoting from a headline written by a journalist.

Your statistics are a METAR Mr SkyToddler, I would suggest you check the TAF.

[404 Titan]

dudduddud

How many of those who have posted so far have the industry experience of Mr WS? I'd say zero.

Some of us do. I have seen many many many of these types of TAFS in Australia and New Zealand over the years. Infact if you look at the historical archives of TAFS and METARS over the last 40 or so years there has never, ever been a pilot shortage of CPL’s in both Australia or New Zealand. There maybe a shortage of experienced drivers from time to time because a rapid airline expansion, but there has never been a shortage of CPL’s. There is only a certain number of jobs available in GA for new CPL’s to get the experience required by the airlines. For some person who claims he represents the flying school fraternity to say producing more inexperience CPL’s will fix the problem is deluding himself and or pulling the wool over the eyes of more, poor unsuspecting student. To show you how bad some of these flying schools are I did the round of some of these larger schools in one of Australia’s capital cities only a few weeks ago. I pretended to be a prospective CPL student. After being given a brochure outlining what the course entailed and cost I asked how hard it was to get a job afterwards. In almost all the cases I was told of this so-called pilot shortage and that jobs wouldn’t be hard to find. One school even had the gall to tell me that if I went bush that there are (quote) “heaps of jobs” available. The reality of GA both in Australia and New Zealand is that it is in decline. Producing more CPL’s won’t fix this problem. Infact it feeds the problem. What the industry needs is a complete overhaul, starting, in my opinion with a lot less flying schools, who at present all seem to be squabbling over the few crumbs of work that seems to be available.

Frankly listening to the flying school industry say there is a pilot shortage is like listening to the real estate industry say there is a housing shortage. I will let you all in a little secret. They are talking up the industry. If you are silly enough to believe them then you need your head read.

[DeltaT]

Regarding tafs and metars:
The METAR at Air NZ mainline is 400 pilots on the books.
The TAF for recruitment is 200 pilots in the next 2 years.
The TAF on new CPLs is approx 220 per year (based on the average for the past 10 yrs)
You do the maths.

After that 2 years, you still have enough CPLs to replace all the Instructors in the country!

I agree Titan, but what annoys me more is the Media simply do not want to hear it, I have appraoched 2 papers already with no luck of getting it to print. Anyone got the ear of Holmes?


Newsflash: 500 crews to change ranks in the next 18 months.
HOWEVER, due to 777 being replacements and not an increase in the fleet, this does not mean 500 new pilots, only 150 are in fact required approx. , of which the first 50 have already been interviewed

[frangatang]

For all you kiwis that have never been out of the country the situation is the same the world over and has been for years.
I still have flight magazine mags(sad l know) going back to the early 70 s moaning about the impending shortage in UK,written of course by the major flying schools.Pilots are a dime a dozen and if a vacuum cleaner was to hoover up the kiwi accents l hear around the airways of the world your impending shortage would be solved overnight!

[Safety Silcock]

Haven't you ever heard of a F$%ken Rudder, Whats the weather doing today!

[123567]

Five years working with W.S. Duhduh u Di@@head

Here's a kicker. ICAO wants to bypass the whole CPL - GA system with a new license just for the airlines.

QUOTE FROM THEIR PRESENTATION

"Proposal for a multi-crew pilot licence (MPL)

BASIC PRINCIPLES:

Licence for co-pilot of turbine commercial air transport
aeroplane
For ab-initio students
New licence to be an alternative to existing licences
Standards will be competency-based
Flight training requirements to be largely satisfied by
synthetic flight training
Both instrument and initial type rating included
Bridging requirements to enable MPL holders to exercise
CPL and single pilot I/R privilege"


Watch this space.

PM me with your e-mail address if you want a copy of the presentation [powerpoint presentation 1.1mb]

NOTE:

[aerocom]

W.S a has been complete tool.

[bushy]

The MPL licence is a great idea. It will let G.A. get on with what it is meant to do and genuine bush pilots will be able to do their work without being harrassed by big headed pimply faced newbys. And the bludging airlines can train some pilots for a change.

[belowMDA]

123567

Is there anything in the document that explains about how they will train them how to make sound decisions based on good information. As far as I can tell the best training I recieved for this was in GA making the decisions myself and learning from my mistakes. I worry about all these cadet schemes and how they teach their students to make the hard decisions. After all most of us have the coordination to fly the thing but how many have the experience to make tough decisions?

[im-a-pirate2]

The MPL really will only work as a cadet based sort of scheme, so airlines can pick who they want to fast-track.

At least for the moment It will make our proper CPL and IR's more valuable!!