Sea Jet
But what if the guys on the ground are being attacked by enemy aircraft? What if enemy fighters stop you supporting the guys on the ground? What if the threat of a few MiGs with anti ship missiles keeps out of the threatre? What if a missile comes in and takes out a merchant ship carrying a significant percentage of armour or helicopters?
As for my comments on the SFDO (and stored?) Shars the possibility of regenerating them (and finding jocks etc) may be remote, but is still a possibility, and therefore hopefully may deter some potential aggressors.
One thing the current Ops in Lebanon prove is that we cannot predict the future with any accuracy.
As for my comments on the SFDO (and stored?) Shars the possibility of regenerating them (and finding jocks etc) may be remote, but is still a possibility, and therefore hopefully may deter some potential aggressors.
One thing the current Ops in Lebanon prove is that we cannot predict the future with any accuracy.
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I thought 800 had gone.... Decommissioned...Or was that some other squadrons decomm party I went too...drunken haze...
Have a peek at the RN web site. There are 4 FW squadrons on there
Have a peek at the RN web site. There are 4 FW squadrons on there
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It seems that fleet defences are affecting the deployment, according to the Daily Telegraph today:
"When the Illustrious and the Bulwark were ordered to sail east, officials talked merely of contingency planning, and the Foreign Office advised British nationals, of which there are about 22,000 in Lebanon, not to leave. The Ministry of Defence expressed concern about the vulnerability of its ships to attack, and the risk that the proximity of an aircraft carrier to the Lebanese coast could be seen as an aggressive posture."
http://tinyurl.com/meooh
"When the Illustrious and the Bulwark were ordered to sail east, officials talked merely of contingency planning, and the Foreign Office advised British nationals, of which there are about 22,000 in Lebanon, not to leave. The Ministry of Defence expressed concern about the vulnerability of its ships to attack, and the risk that the proximity of an aircraft carrier to the Lebanese coast could be seen as an aggressive posture."
http://tinyurl.com/meooh
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Originally Posted by LateArmLive
Gents
It would make things much worse in an already volatile situation if we were to turn up off the coast with a strike package on board. Then we might need to get worried about stray rockets etc.
Cheers
LAL
It would make things much worse in an already volatile situation if we were to turn up off the coast with a strike package on board. Then we might need to get worried about stray rockets etc.
Cheers
LAL
Although not politically correct, I believe that we are obliged to have some sort of ground attack capability within reach in order to offer protection to our civilians and RAF/RN personnel. The fact that nobody knows how this situation is going to pan out in the short term screams out for our guys to have the umbrella of protection they expect and deserve.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Vec,
800NAS is the only RN fixed wing squadron, but it doesn't appear on the RN site. It re-formed on 1 April at Cottesmore. 801 does the same in October.
800NAS is the only RN fixed wing squadron, but it doesn't appear on the RN site. It re-formed on 1 April at Cottesmore. 801 does the same in October.
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Originally Posted by Navaleye
Vec,
800NAS is the only RN fixed wing squadron, but it doesn't appear on the RN site. It re-formed on 1 April at Cottesmore. 801 does the same in October.
800NAS is the only RN fixed wing squadron, but it doesn't appear on the RN site. It re-formed on 1 April at Cottesmore. 801 does the same in October.
Suspicion breeds confidence
I drew the same conclusion. Perhaps they consider 800 NAS just an extension of Crabair now and not part of what they consider the true FAA.
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Originally Posted by Navaleye
I drew the same conclusion. Perhaps they consider 800 NAS just an extension of Crabair now and not part of what they consider the true FAA.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Interesting page on 800 NAS
Here
I was slightly surprised that they operate 13 a/c, I heard that squadron strength was set a 9 a/c. Even then only 6 were deployed on Illustrious.
Here
I was slightly surprised that they operate 13 a/c, I heard that squadron strength was set a 9 a/c. Even then only 6 were deployed on Illustrious.
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Of course
Just what we need now is a futile gesture - like putting up any sort of Harrier against the Israeli F15s! That should have been a job for Typhoons out of Akrotiri, if only they could do half of what is "written on the tin".
Why on earth we did not charter a few ferries or cruise liners I cannot imagine. The job would have been done and dusted by now with far less risk of provocation.
Just what we need now is a futile gesture - like putting up any sort of Harrier against the Israeli F15s! That should have been a job for Typhoons out of Akrotiri, if only they could do half of what is "written on the tin".Why on earth we did not charter a few ferries or cruise liners I cannot imagine. The job would have been done and dusted by now with far less risk of provocation.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Not suggesting we fight Israel! But Syria has Mig29s. I agree about using ferries and not warships to solve this problem and have said so in "another place"
WEBF said:
But what if the guys on the ground are being attacked by enemy aircraft?
For goodness sake man! How many aircraft have Hezbollah got? How many aircraft have the Taleban got? How many aircraft have al-Qaeda got? How many aircraft have the Iraqi insurgents got? How many aircraft have home grown disaffefcted Muslim youth got?
Face the facts, you are bleating on about a lost cause that is about as relevant to the struggle faced by todays armed forces as is a Sopwith Camel.
The threat faced by the RN evacuation force is Israeli, just who is sheling the port? Who is bombing the port? Who is blockading the port? It certainly aint Hezbollah!
Get a grip of the facts man and stop trying to refight the battle of the bloody Atlantic!
But what if the guys on the ground are being attacked by enemy aircraft?
For goodness sake man! How many aircraft have Hezbollah got? How many aircraft have the Taleban got? How many aircraft have al-Qaeda got? How many aircraft have the Iraqi insurgents got? How many aircraft have home grown disaffefcted Muslim youth got?
Face the facts, you are bleating on about a lost cause that is about as relevant to the struggle faced by todays armed forces as is a Sopwith Camel.
The threat faced by the RN evacuation force is Israeli, just who is sheling the port? Who is bombing the port? Who is blockading the port? It certainly aint Hezbollah!
Get a grip of the facts man and stop trying to refight the battle of the bloody Atlantic!
Navaleye,
You should talk of Lebanon and Hezbollah in the same breath, NOT Syria.
Under what possible circumstances would the UK EVER be faced with a threat from Syria? The Israelis maybe, but the UK? When, where and why?
Have you noticed Syria springing to the defence of Hezbollah? Even when the Israelis have bombed border posts the Syrians have gone out of their way to state that no actual damage was caused.
Your still clutching at far fetched straws to justify a capability we have not needed since 1982.
You should talk of Lebanon and Hezbollah in the same breath, NOT Syria.
Under what possible circumstances would the UK EVER be faced with a threat from Syria? The Israelis maybe, but the UK? When, where and why?
Have you noticed Syria springing to the defence of Hezbollah? Even when the Israelis have bombed border posts the Syrians have gone out of their way to state that no actual damage was caused.
Your still clutching at far fetched straws to justify a capability we have not needed since 1982.
Navaleye,
Have you been there? Do you know what the Lebanese people REALLY think of Hezbollah? I have and the Israeils are making them as popular as they have NEVER been since 1992! I can see all too well that the greatest crime being committed in Lebanon is the destruction of the infrastructure of one of the few demoratic states in the Middle East in a deliberate attempt to push the place back at least a decade, if not two, it's a crying shame.
Still see no reason for constructing any ridiculous scenario where we would need any form of AD in the area against Syria.
Have you been there? Do you know what the Lebanese people REALLY think of Hezbollah? I have and the Israeils are making them as popular as they have NEVER been since 1992! I can see all too well that the greatest crime being committed in Lebanon is the destruction of the infrastructure of one of the few demoratic states in the Middle East in a deliberate attempt to push the place back at least a decade, if not two, it's a crying shame.
Still see no reason for constructing any ridiculous scenario where we would need any form of AD in the area against Syria.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Actually I have. Hezbollah operates as a state within a state. It has its own infrastructure, schools, hospitals etc. The govt of Lebanon is powerless to do anything about it. It is funded and controlled by Syria and Iran. Do you disagree with any of this?
As LAL says, the topics discussed on this thread have been done to death. I certainly have nothing new to say, and I suspect this is true for contributors from both sides of the debate.
I started the Future Carrier thread to discuss where we go from now on.
One more comment from me whilst we're here: the fact Hezbollah used some sort of anti ship missile to damage an Israeli warship and sink an Egyptian merchant vessels demonstrates that even terrorists can give us a nasty surprise with weapons nobody knows they have. Light aircraft or drones could be used by terrorists for delivering high explosives. I seem to remember a story from 2002 of a war game in the United States, where US and other forces were facing Iraq. The US lost with heavy casualties. One of the main things was the use by the opposition of swarms of drones/light aircraft to saturate shipborne defences. This threat still exists. I'm not saying the Sea Harrier or another fighter is necessarily the best way to deal with this, but it is something to be aware of. The enemy will not play by our rules
I started the Future Carrier thread to discuss where we go from now on.
One more comment from me whilst we're here: the fact Hezbollah used some sort of anti ship missile to damage an Israeli warship and sink an Egyptian merchant vessels demonstrates that even terrorists can give us a nasty surprise with weapons nobody knows they have. Light aircraft or drones could be used by terrorists for delivering high explosives. I seem to remember a story from 2002 of a war game in the United States, where US and other forces were facing Iraq. The US lost with heavy casualties. One of the main things was the use by the opposition of swarms of drones/light aircraft to saturate shipborne defences. This threat still exists. I'm not saying the Sea Harrier or another fighter is necessarily the best way to deal with this, but it is something to be aware of. The enemy will not play by our rules
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 21st Jul 2006 at 22:46.