Sea Jet
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Forgetting SHAR for a moment (for they will surely return to this thread)... have you read the "JSF Stealth Downgraded" thread on this board, in which the concerns expressed by Australia over the reduction in JCA (aka JSF) capability.... nibble, nibble so it begins.
I too thought the figures needed to be taken with an dangerously large amount of salt.
Another perfectly good frigate (HMS Grafton) was decommisioned on Friday, reducing frigate/destroyer numbers to just 25. Too few for current tasking, and too small to be able to take losses. Less ships also means less ship based defence, which obviously is rather worrying.
Another perfectly good frigate (HMS Grafton) was decommisioned on Friday, reducing frigate/destroyer numbers to just 25. Too few for current tasking, and too small to be able to take losses. Less ships also means less ship based defence, which obviously is rather worrying.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Lowobservable, you should publish your potted history of French/British aerospace industries, it would make good reading, even if only in the Fiction category, but a good laugh nonetheless
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ah well, sorry Tombstone, forgive me and others for trying to drag you back into the boundaries of reality; believe what you will - I'd rather communicate with people who actually have a clue. Bless
Suspicion breeds confidence
I understand there is to be a ceremony/flypast at Greenwich on March 30. I am trying to find out more. Will post as soon as I have more details.
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In simple terms? The same reason that the Jaguars have been dumped - because the bean counters in Whitehall think it makes the proverbial books balance. The reason really is that simple; there's no other reason. Gawd bless Mr. Blair eh?
To be fair, retiring SHar will mean the loss of a capability that can be covered by our allies, and that is unlikely to be needed in the post Cold War world. Moreover, the limited size of the present CVS means that the carrier cannot carry a meaningful load of SHar AND GR7, so must be roled either for attack or AD. Finally, in order to keep the SHar in service, it needed a great deal of investment.
So yes, it was about money, but the loss of capability is relatively insignificant.
Getting rid of the Jag, by contrast, has rather greater implications.
So yes, it was about money, but the loss of capability is relatively insignificant.
Getting rid of the Jag, by contrast, has rather greater implications.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Getting rid of the Jag, by contrast, has rather greater implications.
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Jackonicko, that's not the case; even the MoD accepts that disposing of the Sea Harrier leaves a very obvious gap in capability, but the stock reply is that the "JSF" (or more likely a navalised Typhoon - isn't this where we came in?!) will replace it. The minor fact that the replacement isn't likely to turn-up for at least another six years doesn't matter, it seems.
Navaleye, as for the Jaguar, it's true that the Typhoon is replacing it (eventually), but there are many good reasons for keeping the Jaguar fleet, simply on the grounds of ecomony if nothing else. Given that the aircraft has proved to be ideal for its role, relatively inexpensive to operate, and recently upgraded to enable it to carry-on for many more years, it is accepted by just about everybody that disposing of the fleet is plainly absurd. But of course, when it comes-down to bean counting, the opportunity to wipe-out a complete aircraft type from the inventory at a stroke, and dump a whole RAF station, meant it was almost bound to happen.
Navaleye, as for the Jaguar, it's true that the Typhoon is replacing it (eventually), but there are many good reasons for keeping the Jaguar fleet, simply on the grounds of ecomony if nothing else. Given that the aircraft has proved to be ideal for its role, relatively inexpensive to operate, and recently upgraded to enable it to carry-on for many more years, it is accepted by just about everybody that disposing of the fleet is plainly absurd. But of course, when it comes-down to bean counting, the opportunity to wipe-out a complete aircraft type from the inventory at a stroke, and dump a whole RAF station, meant it was almost bound to happen.
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As much as I agree that it is a great shame to be getting rid of a perfectly good airframe, with solid kit onboard, I have to wonder where the Jag would be able to contribute to today's operations. This is neither a slur on the aircraft or the aircrew, it's just a fact that we have the GR7/9 that operates in a similar role whilst offering more of a punch.
On the other side of the coin, as TM pointed out, the Jag is cheap to run in comparison to the Tonka so, perhaps the loss of a Tonka Sqn may have been a better idea, allowing us to maintain the Jag Mates skills before the transition onto Typhoon and work up the G/A role.
Gordon Brown...
On the other side of the coin, as TM pointed out, the Jag is cheap to run in comparison to the Tonka so, perhaps the loss of a Tonka Sqn may have been a better idea, allowing us to maintain the Jag Mates skills before the transition onto Typhoon and work up the G/A role.
Gordon Brown...
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Navaleye - 801's disbanding divisions will be held at Yeovilton on 28th March with a 5-ship flypast at 1010. The planes will then overfly Portsmouth Dockyard before recovering for their final shutdown at 1120.
3(F) disbanding and 800 NAS recommissioning is at Cottesmore on 31st March from 1000 onwards.
3(F) disbanding and 800 NAS recommissioning is at Cottesmore on 31st March from 1000 onwards.
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Jackonicko,
Your myopic loyalty to the Jaguar (an aircraft you've never flown) is as commendable as WEBF's to the Sea Harrier (an aircraft he's never flown.)
I see a trend.
Maybe you two should get a room?
Or start another thread with the word 'Jaguar' in it?
I wonder how much more efficient we would be if we expended as much effort fighting the battles we can win vice those that are already lost?
Roll on the 31st for all our sakes.
Your myopic loyalty to the Jaguar (an aircraft you've never flown) is as commendable as WEBF's to the Sea Harrier (an aircraft he's never flown.)
I see a trend.
Maybe you two should get a room?
Or start another thread with the word 'Jaguar' in it?
I wonder how much more efficient we would be if we expended as much effort fighting the battles we can win vice those that are already lost?
Roll on the 31st for all our sakes.