CO 1 Royal Irish
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Sorry if I may have missed something in the press but does anyone know if Colonel Collins has been totally vindicated yet or is the farce of an "investigation" still on going ?
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Sunday Times 27 July 2003
"THE controversial army officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Tim Collins, who won worldwide acclaim for his rousing eve-of-battle speech in the Gulf, is set to be cleared of charges that he mistreated Iraqi prisoners."
The report goes on:
"The special investigation branch of the Ministry of Defence police sent its file on the Collins case to his commanding officer on July 11."
It could be sloppy journalism or an unreliable source (or both), but wouldn't anyone "in the know" be aware the SIB are part of the RMP and not the MDP?
Full Report
If he is cleared regarding the Iraq allegations, Col Collins may still have some questions to answer regarding allegations that he failed to counteract a pervasive bullying culture within the RIR.
"THE controversial army officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Tim Collins, who won worldwide acclaim for his rousing eve-of-battle speech in the Gulf, is set to be cleared of charges that he mistreated Iraqi prisoners."
The report goes on:
"The special investigation branch of the Ministry of Defence police sent its file on the Collins case to his commanding officer on July 11."
It could be sloppy journalism or an unreliable source (or both), but wouldn't anyone "in the know" be aware the SIB are part of the RMP and not the MDP?
Full Report
If he is cleared regarding the Iraq allegations, Col Collins may still have some questions to answer regarding allegations that he failed to counteract a pervasive bullying culture within the RIR.
Tim, I dont suppose for one second you are going to read this but having you write my confidential reports for several years and to be a part of the same organisation when we served together was a privilege Sir. I dont think you will never want for a job outside. Perhaps, someone might even listen to the message you are trying to convey. Rgds to family
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As usual the Colonel makes a valiant stand, It's not just the army that suffers at the hand of political correctness, it's the Navy the Airforce and all of British society that is sick to the back teeth with it all but can't say anything lest the do gooders (sic) fire bomb their houses.
Kilroy Silk - you say what you like, this is a free country, or is it.
Tri services you're all being slowly asphyxiated by wimpish ministers and a minority interest that seems, paradoxically, to hold more sway than majority interests and the common good. Gays rights, Gay Bishops, Anti Hunting lobbies, Anti defence ably strengtened by Blair's tail wagging enthusiasm to back Bush. The very core of our national identity is now being threatened by a few that are a part of it. It's got to stop, PC is like fishing for cod, someone needs to haul in the nets.
Good luck to you Colonel Collins.
FEBA
Kilroy Silk - you say what you like, this is a free country, or is it.
Tri services you're all being slowly asphyxiated by wimpish ministers and a minority interest that seems, paradoxically, to hold more sway than majority interests and the common good. Gays rights, Gay Bishops, Anti Hunting lobbies, Anti defence ably strengtened by Blair's tail wagging enthusiasm to back Bush. The very core of our national identity is now being threatened by a few that are a part of it. It's got to stop, PC is like fishing for cod, someone needs to haul in the nets.
Good luck to you Colonel Collins.
FEBA
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What a loss for the British Military. It is officers of Col Collins calibre that the Armed forces need at this moment in time. I would say he would have made an excellent CGS.
I wish him all the very best for the future.
I wish him all the very best for the future.
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Firstly, I would echo the view that Col Collins is an excellent soldier, an exceptional leader and will be a great loss to the armed forces. That said, I don't believe he has been treated with undue harshness. He was cleared of any wrongdoing, promoted to full Colonel and awarded an OBE, all of which he justly deserves.
I wouldn't wipe my @rse on the Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday, let alone read it, so, I'm afraid I won't get the opportunity to view Col Collins' parting shot.
I wouldn't wipe my @rse on the Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday, let alone read it, so, I'm afraid I won't get the opportunity to view Col Collins' parting shot.
You should have heard the comments made by Col Bob Stewart DSO on Sky News tonight. He firmly reinforced Col Collins alleged views in very forthright terms, stating that the UK armed forces are increasingly being asked to do more with less, yet do an outstanding job. He also had some very astute comments concerning that recent speech given by Trust-me-Tone to the troops in Iraq 
One wonders whether the excellent Col Collins will be the only one deciding to quit........
One wonders whether the excellent Col Collins will be the only one deciding to quit........
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Vindication
I'm glad he's been vindicated but sad to hear he's leaving.
When we were in Ar Rumaylha (scene of alleged crime) he was exactly what the place needed: a firm but fair hand to get a grip of the very unstable situation. The only person who should be allowed to make a judgement as to whether his action was appropriate or otherwise should be his senior commander on the ground at the time: Comd 16 Air Asslt Bde.
As for the conduct of our American allies, they simply lacked the experience. For example, when the PsyOps Team delivered newspapers (the first free press for 40 years, independently produced by Iraqis) the Humvees drove into Al Amarah and just chucked bundles of them off the back, causing a riot and, worse, interruption to an Arab funeral. No wonder that clown got a bollocking. The Brits, by contrast, got off the vehicles, patrolled deep into the town centre, handing them out individually in the cafés. No riot, job done.
The loss of officers like Col Collins is a real pity for our armed forces.
When we were in Ar Rumaylha (scene of alleged crime) he was exactly what the place needed: a firm but fair hand to get a grip of the very unstable situation. The only person who should be allowed to make a judgement as to whether his action was appropriate or otherwise should be his senior commander on the ground at the time: Comd 16 Air Asslt Bde.
As for the conduct of our American allies, they simply lacked the experience. For example, when the PsyOps Team delivered newspapers (the first free press for 40 years, independently produced by Iraqis) the Humvees drove into Al Amarah and just chucked bundles of them off the back, causing a riot and, worse, interruption to an Arab funeral. No wonder that clown got a bollocking. The Brits, by contrast, got off the vehicles, patrolled deep into the town centre, handing them out individually in the cafés. No riot, job done.
The loss of officers like Col Collins is a real pity for our armed forces.
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FEBA
As a member of the armed forces, I don't feel I'm "suffering at the hand of political correctness" and I don't know many colleagues who do. Indeed, most crewroom, NAAFI or mess bellyaching seems to revolve around the usual bread and butter issues, such as kit (or lack thereof), pay and pensions, promotion (or lack thereof) and, of course, the hierarchy.
Political correctness is largely an invention of the gutter press. Kelvin McKenzie, the former Editor of the Sun, happily admitted he and his staff used to contrive those stories about loony left councils banning black bin liners and "Bah Bah Black Sheep". At least it was easy to see through that sort of mischief making. These days, pseudo-respectable rags, like the Daily Mail, love to play to the gullibility of their lazy-minded readers, who are happy to swallow anything some self-important, puritanical fart (or fartess) with a column to fill, happens to feed them. Incidentally, FEBA, your melodramatic diatribe would make excellent Daily Mail copy
As for Kilroy-Silk, he'll do a few weeks in the BBC sin bin and then get his show back. I don't think he said anything especially outrageous. He was just a bit clumsy and rather foolish, in stereotyping all Arabs as woman-hating, limb-chopping etc. It's rather ironic that, had one of the audience on his inane show said the same thing, he'd have been down on them like a ton of bricks.
As a member of the armed forces, I don't feel I'm "suffering at the hand of political correctness" and I don't know many colleagues who do. Indeed, most crewroom, NAAFI or mess bellyaching seems to revolve around the usual bread and butter issues, such as kit (or lack thereof), pay and pensions, promotion (or lack thereof) and, of course, the hierarchy.
Political correctness is largely an invention of the gutter press. Kelvin McKenzie, the former Editor of the Sun, happily admitted he and his staff used to contrive those stories about loony left councils banning black bin liners and "Bah Bah Black Sheep". At least it was easy to see through that sort of mischief making. These days, pseudo-respectable rags, like the Daily Mail, love to play to the gullibility of their lazy-minded readers, who are happy to swallow anything some self-important, puritanical fart (or fartess) with a column to fill, happens to feed them. Incidentally, FEBA, your melodramatic diatribe would make excellent Daily Mail copy
As for Kilroy-Silk, he'll do a few weeks in the BBC sin bin and then get his show back. I don't think he said anything especially outrageous. He was just a bit clumsy and rather foolish, in stereotyping all Arabs as woman-hating, limb-chopping etc. It's rather ironic that, had one of the audience on his inane show said the same thing, he'd have been down on them like a ton of bricks.
So, PC, H&S etc not taking over our lives eh? My wife has just been on a first aid course where she was told you are no longer to pinch a casualty's earlobe, to check whether they are responsive to pain, as this could bruise them!
Nuff said!
Nuff said!
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Baa Baa Black Sheep, and the Black bin liner stories may have been made up.
But when I overhauled the family dartboard for Christmas I couldn't get hold of any blackboard paint and had to settle for chalkboard paint (black matt)
But when I overhauled the family dartboard for Christmas I couldn't get hold of any blackboard paint and had to settle for chalkboard paint (black matt)
S-U-L
My wife's instructor is a current NHS nurse, if I was going to invent a 'wind up' I like to think I could have come up with something better. And yes, this thread is straying off subject, but don't they all!!!!
My wife's instructor is a current NHS nurse, if I was going to invent a 'wind up' I like to think I could have come up with something better. And yes, this thread is straying off subject, but don't they all!!!!
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SUD
It will be a pleasure to cross swords with you.
Rhetoric, polemic maybe but certainly not diatribe.
You seem to be at odds with Col Collins, are you saying that he is wrong and that the three services are adequately funded?
As for PC no they are not the invention of the tabloid press it is a concept that originated in the USA based on the observation that language and phrases that express such prejudices as racism, sexism and hostility to homosexuals; to avoid the slightest risk of giving offence extreme care must taken to avoid all such phrases.
Quote
Tolerance is however not only the mark but the paradox of liberalism. Liberalism, by its very nature threatens the hegemony that the opposers of liberalism seek to impose. Unquote A C Grayling.
So what has PC to do with the underfunding of the armed forces? Well handing out lots of dosh to the MOD is hardly a vote winner in this day and age since it will causes the mothers of peace the Church and numerous others to dominate the prime time media with their objections. Since the government seeks to appease them and not create a fuss close to election time, the underfunding of the forces is as a direct result of PC.
Read George Orwell he could see what was coming. Read Huckleberry Flynn, if you are allowed. Try being a policeman or best of all try telling one that there is no such thing as PC, you'll be laughed at.
So I don't think for one moment that current serving members of the armed forces will agree with you, however you have indirectly proved my point, and that is that you have a perfect right to disagree with me and write lots of drivel on this forum.
So steering this thread back on course I believe Col Collins to be correct and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
Best wishes
FEBA
PS H&S for the armed forces what on earth is that all about 
It will be a pleasure to cross swords with you.
melodramatic diatribe
You seem to be at odds with Col Collins, are you saying that he is wrong and that the three services are adequately funded?
As for PC no they are not the invention of the tabloid press it is a concept that originated in the USA based on the observation that language and phrases that express such prejudices as racism, sexism and hostility to homosexuals; to avoid the slightest risk of giving offence extreme care must taken to avoid all such phrases.
Quote
Tolerance is however not only the mark but the paradox of liberalism. Liberalism, by its very nature threatens the hegemony that the opposers of liberalism seek to impose. Unquote A C Grayling.
So what has PC to do with the underfunding of the armed forces? Well handing out lots of dosh to the MOD is hardly a vote winner in this day and age since it will causes the mothers of peace the Church and numerous others to dominate the prime time media with their objections. Since the government seeks to appease them and not create a fuss close to election time, the underfunding of the forces is as a direct result of PC.
Read George Orwell he could see what was coming. Read Huckleberry Flynn, if you are allowed. Try being a policeman or best of all try telling one that there is no such thing as PC, you'll be laughed at.
So I don't think for one moment that current serving members of the armed forces will agree with you, however you have indirectly proved my point, and that is that you have a perfect right to disagree with me and write lots of drivel on this forum.
So steering this thread back on course I believe Col Collins to be correct and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
Best wishes
FEBA
PS H&S for the armed forces
what on earth is that all about
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I believe the armed forces are under-resourced, but then, twas ever thus. I'm certainly not going to be told that, as a member of the armed forces or as a member of society, I'm being 'asphyxiated' by minority interests. It smacks a little too much of Nazism, for my liking.