Promotion.......is it actually worth it?
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Promotion.......is it actually worth it?
Recently overheard conversation between front line aircrew mate post 5th deployment of the year and poster at PMA.....
"You see to be promoted you're just not reaching the mark without that secondary duty tick"
"well to be frank, I've spent so much time away concentrating on my primary duties I kind of tried to concentrate, when I came back, to Sqn training and staying married to a very tolerant partner"
"I understand that but I had to bite the bullet too, did the Hive for six months and Voila!"..
"..........2 WAT......."
"You see to be promoted you're just not reaching the mark without that secondary duty tick"
"well to be frank, I've spent so much time away concentrating on my primary duties I kind of tried to concentrate, when I came back, to Sqn training and staying married to a very tolerant partner"
"I understand that but I had to bite the bullet too, did the Hive for six months and Voila!"..
"..........2 WAT......."
Champagne anyone...?
Scary
But is it not more worrying that having done lots of secondary duties seems to qualify some of our colleagues for promotion despite their blinding lack of interpersonal or leadership skills?
I can think of a couple of examples (fortunately none of them my magnificent superiors - good evening, Sir/s) of folk I wouldn't put in charge of running a bath let alone a flight/sqn/stn.
I frankly can't see the point; do secondary duty = bleed from the eyes for 6 - 12 months doing thankless and usually pointless task. Do enough secondary duties (+ obligatory gnd tour) = get promoted. Get promoted = less flying (if at all) + more than likely some random, thankless job in some obscure headquarters somewhere, spending your days driving pencils up your nose.
Or, don't do secondary duties = generally have a happier life. No secondary duties = no promotion. No promotion = stay flying. Stay flying = happier life.
Slightly simplistic and naive I know, but it keeps me happy.
I can think of a couple of examples (fortunately none of them my magnificent superiors - good evening, Sir/s
) of folk I wouldn't put in charge of running a bath let alone a flight/sqn/stn.I frankly can't see the point; do secondary duty = bleed from the eyes for 6 - 12 months doing thankless and usually pointless task. Do enough secondary duties (+ obligatory gnd tour) = get promoted. Get promoted = less flying (if at all) + more than likely some random, thankless job in some obscure headquarters somewhere, spending your days driving pencils up your nose.
Or, don't do secondary duties = generally have a happier life. No secondary duties = no promotion. No promotion = stay flying. Stay flying = happier life.
Slightly simplistic and naive I know, but it keeps me happy.
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Plus ça change...
Mr StopStart
Simplistic perhaps, but probably not that naive. When I was a lad, there were 4 'golden rules' for aircrew who wanted to be promoted:
1. Do the Individual Staff Studies Course.
2. Pass the 'C' promotion exam.
3. Do a (preferably high-profile) ground tour.
4. Do a major secondary duty.
Unfortunately, by the time that I had gathered these 4 accolades on my F1369, the ISSC had been curtailed, the 'C' exam abolished and the career emphasis had been changed to 'pilots back in the cockpit' (for those who hadn't been made redundant, that is).
Only the secondary duties were left. Although I had already done a pretty high-profile one of those, it was suggested that running the stn Youth Club would be an ideal fillip for my career. I thought, in contrast, that looking after my 3rd RO's kids two evenings a week whilst neglecting my own was not likely to go down terribly well with 'er indoors, so I declined. The RAF, in turn, declined to promote me.
Hence the fact that I am now looking from the outside in with an acute feeling of déjà vu!
Keep flying, keep smiling, mate.
Simplistic perhaps, but probably not that naive. When I was a lad, there were 4 'golden rules' for aircrew who wanted to be promoted:
1. Do the Individual Staff Studies Course.
2. Pass the 'C' promotion exam.
3. Do a (preferably high-profile) ground tour.
4. Do a major secondary duty.
Unfortunately, by the time that I had gathered these 4 accolades on my F1369, the ISSC had been curtailed, the 'C' exam abolished and the career emphasis had been changed to 'pilots back in the cockpit' (for those who hadn't been made redundant, that is).
Only the secondary duties were left. Although I had already done a pretty high-profile one of those, it was suggested that running the stn Youth Club would be an ideal fillip for my career. I thought, in contrast, that looking after my 3rd RO's kids two evenings a week whilst neglecting my own was not likely to go down terribly well with 'er indoors, so I declined. The RAF, in turn, declined to promote me.
Hence the fact that I am now looking from the outside in with an acute feeling of déjà vu!
Keep flying, keep smiling, mate.
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Rule 5 of promotion
Captain Gadget,
Must not forget rule 5.
5. Stop organising things in the nomal dial-a-mate way on the phone and push around endless sheets of computer typed A4 with your signature bloc on it.
It doesn't actually achieve anymore than the old fashioned way.....but by the lord harry it lets all those that your'e kissing the _ss of know that its you thats done it !
Must not forget rule 5.
5. Stop organising things in the nomal dial-a-mate way on the phone and push around endless sheets of computer typed A4 with your signature bloc on it.
It doesn't actually achieve anymore than the old fashioned way.....but by the lord harry it lets all those that your'e kissing the _ss of know that its you thats done it !
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One day while walking down the street a highly successful RAF Recruiter was tragically hit by a bus and died. His soul arrived up in heaven where he was met at the Pearly Gates by St.Peter himself.
Welcome to Heaven," said St. Peter, "Before you get settled in though, it seems we have a problem. You see, strangely enough, we've never once had a Human Resources Director make it this far and we're not really sure what to do with you."
"No problem, just let me in," said the RAF man.
"Well, I'd like to, but I have higher orders. What we're going to do is let you have a day in Hell and a day in Heaven and then you can choose whichever one you want to spend eternity."
"Actually, I think I've made up my mind, I prefer to stay in Heaven" said the RAF man. "Sorry, we have rules..." And with that St. Peter put the executive in an elevator and it went down-down-down to hell.
The doors opened and he found herself stepping out onto the putting green of a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club and landing in front of him were all his friends-fellow executives who he had worked with and they were well dressed and cheering for him.
They ran up and shook his hand and they talked about old times.
They played an excellent round of golf and at night went to the country club where he enjoyed an excellent steak and lobster dinner. He met the Devil who was actually a really nice guy and he had a great time telling jokes and dancing.
He was having such a good time that before he knew it; it was time to leave. Everybody shook his hand and waved good bye as he got on the elevator. The elevator went up-up-up and opened back up at the Pearly Gates and found St. Peter waiting for him. "Now it's time to spend a day in heaven," he said. So he spent the next 24 hours lounging round on clouds and playing the harp and singing.
He had a great time and before he knew it her 24 hours were up and St. Peter came and got him.
"So, you've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. Now you must choose your eternity," he said. The RAF man paused for a second and then replied, "Well, I never thought I'd say this, I mean, heaven has been really great and all, but I think I had a better time in Hell," so St.Peter escorted him to the elevator and again she went down-down-down back to Hell.
When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. He saw his friends were dressed in rags and were picking up the garbage and putting it in sacks.
The Devil came up to him and put his arm around him. "I don't understand," stammered the RAF man, "Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and a country club and we ate lobster and drank free beer and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland of garbage and all my friends look
miserable."
The Devil looked at him and smiled. "Yesterday we were recruiting you, today you're staff."
Reg
Welcome to Heaven," said St. Peter, "Before you get settled in though, it seems we have a problem. You see, strangely enough, we've never once had a Human Resources Director make it this far and we're not really sure what to do with you."
"No problem, just let me in," said the RAF man.
"Well, I'd like to, but I have higher orders. What we're going to do is let you have a day in Hell and a day in Heaven and then you can choose whichever one you want to spend eternity."
"Actually, I think I've made up my mind, I prefer to stay in Heaven" said the RAF man. "Sorry, we have rules..." And with that St. Peter put the executive in an elevator and it went down-down-down to hell.
The doors opened and he found herself stepping out onto the putting green of a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club and landing in front of him were all his friends-fellow executives who he had worked with and they were well dressed and cheering for him.
They ran up and shook his hand and they talked about old times.
They played an excellent round of golf and at night went to the country club where he enjoyed an excellent steak and lobster dinner. He met the Devil who was actually a really nice guy and he had a great time telling jokes and dancing.
He was having such a good time that before he knew it; it was time to leave. Everybody shook his hand and waved good bye as he got on the elevator. The elevator went up-up-up and opened back up at the Pearly Gates and found St. Peter waiting for him. "Now it's time to spend a day in heaven," he said. So he spent the next 24 hours lounging round on clouds and playing the harp and singing.
He had a great time and before he knew it her 24 hours were up and St. Peter came and got him.
"So, you've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. Now you must choose your eternity," he said. The RAF man paused for a second and then replied, "Well, I never thought I'd say this, I mean, heaven has been really great and all, but I think I had a better time in Hell," so St.Peter escorted him to the elevator and again she went down-down-down back to Hell.
When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. He saw his friends were dressed in rags and were picking up the garbage and putting it in sacks.
The Devil came up to him and put his arm around him. "I don't understand," stammered the RAF man, "Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and a country club and we ate lobster and drank free beer and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland of garbage and all my friends look
miserable."
The Devil looked at him and smiled. "Yesterday we were recruiting you, today you're staff."
Reg
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Happens in the Navy too!
"Ahh Bloggs of you go to sea for a while and broaden! Make you really promotable. Oh and get a staff job under your belt.....You can't Fail!"
"Oh F**kin really!!!!"
Now where is that resignation paper.......
Oh and don't give me the life in a blue suit sketch 'cos I am not interested!!
Honesty pays........some of the time!
"Ahh Bloggs of you go to sea for a while and broaden! Make you really promotable. Oh and get a staff job under your belt.....You can't Fail!"
"Oh F**kin really!!!!"
Now where is that resignation paper.......
Oh and don't give me the life in a blue suit sketch 'cos I am not interested!!
Honesty pays........some of the time!
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LOL - nice gag Regie.
Secondary duties are a complete red herring. How you do your job and interact with those around you ought to be the only considerations in deciding on your merits or demerits as an employee.
The whole cynical secondary duties game is just a convenient crutch for lazy report writers.
Secondary duties are a complete red herring. How you do your job and interact with those around you ought to be the only considerations in deciding on your merits or demerits as an employee.
The whole cynical secondary duties game is just a convenient crutch for lazy report writers.
What's the attraction with promotion anyway?
Unless you're one of those people who like organising others' lives and dealing with the absolutely essential task of ensuring that reports and returns get away on time, the rewards would be a bit thin I would say!
I'm out now, but ducked and weaved the normal route of progression for 20 yrs to reach the dizzy heights of FLTLT, whilst avoiding all ground jobs, and I'm very glad I did.
The posters always give you the old brainwashing line that everyone needs to move through the system to provide an appropriate pool of potential senior officers to fill all the important staff jobs, but frankly I'd say it's vitally important to have an experienced base of aircrew who are concerned about doing their flying jobs exceptionally well, not worrying all day about looking good in the role of sqn. carpet condition monitoring officer or some such irrelevance.
Unless you're one of those people who like organising others' lives and dealing with the absolutely essential task of ensuring that reports and returns get away on time, the rewards would be a bit thin I would say!
I'm out now, but ducked and weaved the normal route of progression for 20 yrs to reach the dizzy heights of FLTLT, whilst avoiding all ground jobs, and I'm very glad I did.
The posters always give you the old brainwashing line that everyone needs to move through the system to provide an appropriate pool of potential senior officers to fill all the important staff jobs, but frankly I'd say it's vitally important to have an experienced base of aircrew who are concerned about doing their flying jobs exceptionally well, not worrying all day about looking good in the role of sqn. carpet condition monitoring officer or some such irrelevance.
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I am sure its the same in Officer world but in the 'SNCO' aircrew world we have the halo effect. This is where someone who is average or below average gets better scores for their professional work than they deserve because of all their secondary duties. You actually may be doing more work related work than those around you, but because you are busy doing your job and not in the coffee bar telling everyone how much work you do with the air cadets or the station golf society you are not noticed. I could go on all day as I currently feel very bitter about the promotion system. The number of times I have had to cover for other people, and I don't volunteer anymore, so they could do 'secondary duties' is unbelievable.
Some people ie PMA say I don't sell myself well enough. Perhaps I should stop going on det at the drop of a hat, doing professional related work for the benefit of the Sqn and RAF and just do lots of charity work or maybe run the underwater basket weaving club.
Some people ie PMA say I don't sell myself well enough. Perhaps I should stop going on det at the drop of a hat, doing professional related work for the benefit of the Sqn and RAF and just do lots of charity work or maybe run the underwater basket weaving club.
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I have to say, I think that the RAF is getting a bit mixed up with it's priorities. When I joined (some years ago), those that were after promotion would do lots of secondary duties, and sure enough get promoted. Those that wished to become good avaiators would concentrate on flying and become just that, achieving the Status Quo.
Now, we have the situation where everyone has to do secondary duties to get anywhere. Those that with to get promotion still get promoted, and those that wish to be good aviators get pi**ed off and join BA or Virgin.
Retention Problems? I Wonder!!!
Now, we have the situation where everyone has to do secondary duties to get anywhere. Those that with to get promotion still get promoted, and those that wish to be good aviators get pi**ed off and join BA or Virgin.
Retention Problems? I Wonder!!!
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I've never understood the fixation you Crab boys have got with secondary duties. Surely the only criteria for promotion should be:
1. Ability to lead from the front
2. Professional ability
After those boxes are ticked you look at softer elements like political actuity, ability to develop and appraise and so on. In my experience only YOs in the army get secondaries unless you happen to be the PMC or some other mess appointment. Some poor sods may have got lumbered with them, but I rarely did.
1. Ability to lead from the front
2. Professional ability
After those boxes are ticked you look at softer elements like political actuity, ability to develop and appraise and so on. In my experience only YOs in the army get secondaries unless you happen to be the PMC or some other mess appointment. Some poor sods may have got lumbered with them, but I rarely did.
Gentleman Aviator
I do have some difficulties with these whinges about promotion ... do I detect the whiff of sour grapes hereabouts?
Particularly as the No 4 Air Board (aircrew flt lt > sqn ldr) has probably just finished??
The system is not perfect, but it's difficult to think of a better one. Of course kbf1, flying ability is most important, and noone is promoted aircrew sqn ldr without above average flying assessments. The Board is briefed in detail on what that means in different forces, A2 QFI, fours lead, CR(A) or whatever. In doubtful or ambiguous cases the Board can (and does) contact the unit to say: Is this guy/gal REALLY above average. And the four aircrew gp capts who make up the Board are, where possible, from different forces. (I am told the latest Board had 2 truckies, one SH and one FJ.)
Now the secondary duties bit. The company argument (with which I mostly agree) is that it shows wider involvement, spare capacity (ie, not totally maxed out with the day job) and a willingness to give something back. I'm mostly in favour of the third one. However busy you are, you enjoy Mess life, Balls, the Christmas Draw, or maybe just the bar! Funnily enough, none of these things happen spontaneously - people give up their spare time (and that DOES include busy aircrew at operational Stations) to make these wonderful things (Balls, Draws and Bars) happen - and that, o best beloved, is why secondary duties are important!
Not important per se, but as a means of discriminating between those who would otherwise be equal. (Because the only important thing for promotion is to BEAT THE COMPETITION) Take 2 mates in whatever force: both got all professional ticks, QWI, fours lead, ACO or whatever. One is Mess Sec, one goes home and rebuilds his cottage in his spare time (real examples). Guess who is smiled upon MORE by the Promotion Board.
And of course, the Board only puts people in a batting order, so your secondary duty may only put you above someone else WHO IN ALL OTHER RESPECTS IS YOUR EQUAL. And why not.
Maybe you'll both be promoted, maybe neither. But if only one is..... ....guess which one my money's on!
Sorry to have gone on so long in pedantic git mode, but I do like to bring facts into emotive discussions. So if you do REALLY REALLY want to stay a flt lt and stay flying (or flying related ho ho), then don't do anything but fly......
..... but don't whinge in the bar (a real one or this virtual equivalent) that you didn't get promoted because you didn't do secondary duties.
Maybe, just maybe you weren't promoted because:
a. You weren't REALLY above average in the air
and most certainly because
b. You DIDN'T beat the competetition!
{Pedantic git mode selected OFF}
Particularly as the No 4 Air Board (aircrew flt lt > sqn ldr) has probably just finished??
The system is not perfect, but it's difficult to think of a better one. Of course kbf1, flying ability is most important, and noone is promoted aircrew sqn ldr without above average flying assessments. The Board is briefed in detail on what that means in different forces, A2 QFI, fours lead, CR(A) or whatever. In doubtful or ambiguous cases the Board can (and does) contact the unit to say: Is this guy/gal REALLY above average. And the four aircrew gp capts who make up the Board are, where possible, from different forces. (I am told the latest Board had 2 truckies, one SH and one FJ.)
Now the secondary duties bit. The company argument (with which I mostly agree) is that it shows wider involvement, spare capacity (ie, not totally maxed out with the day job) and a willingness to give something back. I'm mostly in favour of the third one. However busy you are, you enjoy Mess life, Balls, the Christmas Draw, or maybe just the bar! Funnily enough, none of these things happen spontaneously - people give up their spare time (and that DOES include busy aircrew at operational Stations) to make these wonderful things (Balls, Draws and Bars) happen - and that, o best beloved, is why secondary duties are important!
Not important per se, but as a means of discriminating between those who would otherwise be equal. (Because the only important thing for promotion is to BEAT THE COMPETITION) Take 2 mates in whatever force: both got all professional ticks, QWI, fours lead, ACO or whatever. One is Mess Sec, one goes home and rebuilds his cottage in his spare time (real examples). Guess who is smiled upon MORE by the Promotion Board.
And of course, the Board only puts people in a batting order, so your secondary duty may only put you above someone else WHO IN ALL OTHER RESPECTS IS YOUR EQUAL. And why not.
Maybe you'll both be promoted, maybe neither. But if only one is..... ....guess which one my money's on!
Sorry to have gone on so long in pedantic git mode, but I do like to bring facts into emotive discussions. So if you do REALLY REALLY want to stay a flt lt and stay flying (or flying related ho ho), then don't do anything but fly......
..... but don't whinge in the bar (a real one or this virtual equivalent) that you didn't get promoted because you didn't do secondary duties.
Maybe, just maybe you weren't promoted because:
a. You weren't REALLY above average in the air
and most certainly because
b. You DIDN'T beat the competetition!
{Pedantic git mode selected OFF}
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teeteringhead
You make some very reasonable points. I consider I have progressed quite well in the Service and my criticisms regarding the emphasis placed on secondary duties are not, therefore, motivated by sour grapes. Secondary duties have been allowed to take on an importance, completely out of proportion with their real worth as an indicator of personal ability or commitment to the Service. Far from placing secondary duties in their proper context, the Service encourages reliance on them, often at the expense of more critical analysis of a subject's professional ability.
There is no reason why 'secondary' duties, such as mess committee posts, should not be filled mandatorily, on a rotational basis, by all those eligible to perform them. Such duties would thereby become part of the subject's job description and would be spread equitably among everyone. Those who choose to take on voluntary work should be allowed to do so, but such work should not be mentioned in annual appraisals, except where it detracts from the subject's ability to perform his or her job.
No two promotion candidates can truly be said to be equal in professional ability, and promotion boards ought to be forced to decide who is better at their job. Only by removing secondary duties from the appraisal equation can we ensure promotion is based on professional ability and personal qualities, within the context of the professional environment.
Incidentally, I happen to think renovating a cottage shows more strength of character than producing mess committee minutes. That either skill should be viewed as a promotion-decider is, I suggest, highly dubious.
You make some very reasonable points. I consider I have progressed quite well in the Service and my criticisms regarding the emphasis placed on secondary duties are not, therefore, motivated by sour grapes. Secondary duties have been allowed to take on an importance, completely out of proportion with their real worth as an indicator of personal ability or commitment to the Service. Far from placing secondary duties in their proper context, the Service encourages reliance on them, often at the expense of more critical analysis of a subject's professional ability.
There is no reason why 'secondary' duties, such as mess committee posts, should not be filled mandatorily, on a rotational basis, by all those eligible to perform them. Such duties would thereby become part of the subject's job description and would be spread equitably among everyone. Those who choose to take on voluntary work should be allowed to do so, but such work should not be mentioned in annual appraisals, except where it detracts from the subject's ability to perform his or her job.
No two promotion candidates can truly be said to be equal in professional ability, and promotion boards ought to be forced to decide who is better at their job. Only by removing secondary duties from the appraisal equation can we ensure promotion is based on professional ability and personal qualities, within the context of the professional environment.
Incidentally, I happen to think renovating a cottage shows more strength of character than producing mess committee minutes. That either skill should be viewed as a promotion-decider is, I suggest, highly dubious.
Last edited by Scud-U-Like; 19th Dec 2002 at 22:53.
I only wish that our system was as teeteringhead describes, i.e. one that has being above average in the air as a criterion for promotion.
In this neck of the woods it seems as if that aspect is practically irrelevant sometimes.
As far as taking on mess jobs instead of doing things outside of work goes, how many hours a day should you spend on work or work related activities? Some of these secondary duties are beyond a joke, particularly for someone who has a family or just wants to pursue outside interests, but some bosses would have you feel guilty for not wanting to spend every waking hour doing something service-related.
Call me crazy if you like, but a few beers in the mess every few weeks is more than enough if you've got other things in your life to attend to.
In this neck of the woods it seems as if that aspect is practically irrelevant sometimes.
As far as taking on mess jobs instead of doing things outside of work goes, how many hours a day should you spend on work or work related activities? Some of these secondary duties are beyond a joke, particularly for someone who has a family or just wants to pursue outside interests, but some bosses would have you feel guilty for not wanting to spend every waking hour doing something service-related.
Call me crazy if you like, but a few beers in the mess every few weeks is more than enough if you've got other things in your life to attend to.
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I prefer the tried and trusted promotion board method of selection myself - chuck all the files down the stairs and whoever's goes farthest (or is that furthest?) gets the nod.
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Above Average
Teeteringhead.
A little naive I think! Your loyalty to the firm is, it must be said commendable, above and beyond the average in fact, but do you really believe every promotion, in all the years of service you must have done, has been awarded to a squadron mate that was deserving and 100% above the average. Sorry bud but I have flown with or next to more than my share of Sqn Ldrs/Lt Cdrs and alot of them have NOT been above average in thier primary role. (I have cut the Wg Cdrs/Cdrs in a Sqn Boss role some slack as they never really stay that current....through no fault of thier own. Though some really have been exceptional )
Since the boards that select our prometed bretheren generally don't meet or sufficiently know the individuals concerned, ours is a flawed system in that it is 100% relient upon the reporting honesty, integrity and, in no small part, writing ability of the first RO. The promoted in peace time like war time look to thier subordinates for similar traits to themselves if that happens to be a kiss ass secondary duty muppet....well their you go, like wise I guess "Hurragh kick the tyres light the fires etc...."
A little simplistic it's true but it has its elements of truth
A little naive I think! Your loyalty to the firm is, it must be said commendable, above and beyond the average in fact, but do you really believe every promotion, in all the years of service you must have done, has been awarded to a squadron mate that was deserving and 100% above the average. Sorry bud but I have flown with or next to more than my share of Sqn Ldrs/Lt Cdrs and alot of them have NOT been above average in thier primary role. (I have cut the Wg Cdrs/Cdrs in a Sqn Boss role some slack as they never really stay that current....through no fault of thier own. Though some really have been exceptional )
Since the boards that select our prometed bretheren generally don't meet or sufficiently know the individuals concerned, ours is a flawed system in that it is 100% relient upon the reporting honesty, integrity and, in no small part, writing ability of the first RO. The promoted in peace time like war time look to thier subordinates for similar traits to themselves if that happens to be a kiss ass secondary duty muppet....well their you go, like wise I guess "Hurragh kick the tyres light the fires etc...."
A little simplistic it's true but it has its elements of truth
Last edited by Axel-Flo; 20th Dec 2002 at 23:33.
Gentleman Aviator
Hoooeeee!!! Drew a bit of hostile fire there didn't I!!
No of course not every promotion I've seen has been perfect. I didn't say the system was perfect - no system designed and run by humans (or even pilots!) ever can be - But I DO believe it's the "least worst" system we could have. (And it's not cheap either - four four-ringers and a couple of wg cdrs full time for a month.) At least my aged brain cells can't easily think of another, better system (but see below).
Of course the Board don't know all the individuals, but they do know some - equally importantly they know a lot of the ROs! and their strengths and weaknesses. And of course it depends on the reporting skills employed, but an organisation the size of the RAF must rely on formal assessment, the value of which will always depend on the skill of the assessor.
But for the Board to know all the candidates would imply promotion within a force, which would mean quotas. And it might just be that some forces have a greater number of stars than others. (Contentious? OK, for the sake of argument let's assume it's true
). Quota promotion means that the best guy/gal in the Scruggs Wondabomma force will get promoted, even if only as good as the average mate in the Wastaspace Killajet mob. Do we want that?
And (turning his naivity up to max gain) we do have lots of good people, more than there are slots for. So (very sadly) being good enough doesn't get you promoted, you've got to be better than the competition. It's like the annual tabloid non-story: "Comprehensive Girl with 3 Grade As at A Level turned down by Oxbridge". Problem is, Oxbridge has 4 or 5 candidates (all with 3 Grade As) for each place. They ain't all going to get in. SO SOME OTHER CRITERIA HAVE TO BE BROUGHT INTO THE EQUATION.
Which brings us back to "wider involvement" ("Secondary Duties" is now a non-PC phrase I understand!). It's a way of seeing who will spend, not "every spare waking hour", but some of their own time on other things/people. And of COURSE its done from the RAF's point of view. I bet Barclays Bank and Marks and Sparks promote from their point of view too! And they all rely on assessments from "line managers". But I don't think we're ready yet for 360 assessment or democratic elections!
In the finest traditions of pprune (and CFS), let me answer this question by asking another. What would your preferred system be, given the following parameters:
a. 1600+ aircrew flt lts with enough seniority for promotion.
b. 400 - 500 "theoretically promotable", ie above average in the air (yes really), and a current +ve prom rec.
c. 300-400 seen by the Board as "promotable now", and given a score.
d. About 150 slots .......
So how would YOU choose??
No of course not every promotion I've seen has been perfect. I didn't say the system was perfect - no system designed and run by humans (or even pilots!) ever can be - But I DO believe it's the "least worst" system we could have. (And it's not cheap either - four four-ringers and a couple of wg cdrs full time for a month.) At least my aged brain cells can't easily think of another, better system (but see below).
Of course the Board don't know all the individuals, but they do know some - equally importantly they know a lot of the ROs! and their strengths and weaknesses. And of course it depends on the reporting skills employed, but an organisation the size of the RAF must rely on formal assessment, the value of which will always depend on the skill of the assessor.
But for the Board to know all the candidates would imply promotion within a force, which would mean quotas. And it might just be that some forces have a greater number of stars than others. (Contentious? OK, for the sake of argument let's assume it's true
). Quota promotion means that the best guy/gal in the Scruggs Wondabomma force will get promoted, even if only as good as the average mate in the Wastaspace Killajet mob. Do we want that?And (turning his naivity up to max gain) we do have lots of good people, more than there are slots for. So (very sadly) being good enough doesn't get you promoted, you've got to be better than the competition. It's like the annual tabloid non-story: "Comprehensive Girl with 3 Grade As at A Level turned down by Oxbridge". Problem is, Oxbridge has 4 or 5 candidates (all with 3 Grade As) for each place. They ain't all going to get in. SO SOME OTHER CRITERIA HAVE TO BE BROUGHT INTO THE EQUATION.
Which brings us back to "wider involvement" ("Secondary Duties" is now a non-PC phrase I understand!). It's a way of seeing who will spend, not "every spare waking hour", but some of their own time on other things/people. And of COURSE its done from the RAF's point of view. I bet Barclays Bank and Marks and Sparks promote from their point of view too! And they all rely on assessments from "line managers". But I don't think we're ready yet for 360 assessment or democratic elections!
In the finest traditions of pprune (and CFS), let me answer this question by asking another. What would your preferred system be, given the following parameters:
a. 1600+ aircrew flt lts with enough seniority for promotion.
b. 400 - 500 "theoretically promotable", ie above average in the air (yes really), and a current +ve prom rec.
c. 300-400 seen by the Board as "promotable now", and given a score.
d. About 150 slots .......
So how would YOU choose??
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
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Simple.
1. Ditch any reference to secondary duties in appraisals.
2. Concentrate more appraisal effort into assessing how the subject performs his or her job.
3. Select promotees accordingly.
1. Ditch any reference to secondary duties in appraisals.
2. Concentrate more appraisal effort into assessing how the subject performs his or her job.
3. Select promotees accordingly.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Given that each promotion brings some new duties, responsibilities and tasks, basing the promotion on solely candidates' abilitiy to do their old job just guarantees that we continue to promote people to their level of incompetence (ie keep promoting them until they can't do the job). Meanwhile good leaders (or managers in the admin world ) would get passed over over because their stapling isn't as neat as the otherwise brain-dead co-adminner or the system put them in an ill-fitting post in the first place. It would seem to make more sense to look at someone's overall performance to see if they are capable of doing a good job at the next level up; for that, it is hardly surprising that the board want to see some indicators of commitment and capacity.
) would get passed over over because their stapling isn't as neat as the otherwise brain-dead co-adminner or the system put them in an ill-fitting post in the first place. It would seem to make more sense to look at someone's overall performance to see if they are capable of doing a good job at the next level up; for that, it is hardly surprising that the board want to see some indicators of commitment and capacity.