BBMF still grounded?
Is anyone else surprised that the cause of this tragic accident has not yet been revealed? I would've thought it would've been discovered in the first week and certainly by now. Just seems a bit odd.
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It's almost certainly known what the problem was but what caused it to happen when and where it did? There is no pressing need to come out with an answer quickly - its not as if every B.737 is grounded
With all due respect, finding a cause is only a part of finding out why an aircraft went down, especially when it is a fatal accident.
There are many things that need to be done.....from maintenance records to medical records, there are eyewitness accounts and ATC records.
There are so many questions that require answers...paper trails, autopsy, toxicology, wreckage examination - usually microscopic details needed and checked/rechecked and so forth.
Civilian accidents can take years to investigate, military ones are no different.
How long before a cause or causes are confirmed?
How long is a piece of string?
These things are not going to be rushed just cos it is a an aircraft that is in the public eye. No investigation is going to throw out could be or might be, they need to be absolutely 10000% certain and since most accidents tend to be a combination of different things that converge.
BBMF will be back in the air, may or may not be this season. The human element is as important as the mechanical. Nothing will be revealed til they are ready. The human loss will still be very raw, let them grieve and reflect.
We need to be patient.
There are many things that need to be done.....from maintenance records to medical records, there are eyewitness accounts and ATC records.
There are so many questions that require answers...paper trails, autopsy, toxicology, wreckage examination - usually microscopic details needed and checked/rechecked and so forth.
Civilian accidents can take years to investigate, military ones are no different.
How long before a cause or causes are confirmed?
How long is a piece of string?
These things are not going to be rushed just cos it is a an aircraft that is in the public eye. No investigation is going to throw out could be or might be, they need to be absolutely 10000% certain and since most accidents tend to be a combination of different things that converge.
BBMF will be back in the air, may or may not be this season. The human element is as important as the mechanical. Nothing will be revealed til they are ready. The human loss will still be very raw, let them grieve and reflect.
We need to be patient.
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Thud105 , 20th Jun 2024 15:23Is anyone else surprised that the cause of this tragic accident has not yet been revealed? I would've thought it would've been discovered in the first week and certainly by now. Just seems a bit odd.
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How does the LF Mark IXe behave when the engine cuts out? And what's it like in a stall? Is there an authoritative public source for such things? (I'm not trying to imply a certain sequence of events, I'm just interested in what it was like to fly MK356.)
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Nick H, not sure what else is out there but the opening chapter in Neil Williams' book "Airborne" might give you an idea of flying a Mk IX. Also this article by him about squeezing one into a small strip... (credit Discorde!)
Also Mark Levy on what happens when a Merlin quits on a Mustang...
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Also Mark Levy on what happens when a Merlin quits on a Mustang...
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Spitfire as havinga glide similar to a perforated manhole cover
http://www.aerosociety.com/media/495...e-spitfire.pdf
Last edited by megan; 21st Jun 2024 at 02:34.
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Please don't tell me you were gullible enough to believe the statement.
http://www.aerosociety.com/media/495...e-spitfire.pdf
http://www.aerosociety.com/media/495...e-spitfire.pdf
Before I ask this question, please be assured that I mean no disrespect to the friends and family of Sqn Ldr Long and this question is asked for a genuine event planning reason.
Is it realistic to assume that the BBMF will not be fulfilling their planned flying activities over the forthcoming Armed Forces Day weekend? As mentioned above, and understandably, contacts at BBMF have gone quiet and there has been no confirmation either way. I am trying to advise someone who is involved in organising an AFD event and they need to make sure that they dont publicise something that wont be happening. (although most are understanding and sympathetic, there are always people who arent and will cause hell)
Thanks for any answers that you can provide
Is it realistic to assume that the BBMF will not be fulfilling their planned flying activities over the forthcoming Armed Forces Day weekend? As mentioned above, and understandably, contacts at BBMF have gone quiet and there has been no confirmation either way. I am trying to advise someone who is involved in organising an AFD event and they need to make sure that they dont publicise something that wont be happening. (although most are understanding and sympathetic, there are always people who arent and will cause hell)
Thanks for any answers that you can provide
Please don't tell me you were gullible enough to believe the statement.
http://www.aerosociety.com/media/495...e-spitfire.pdf
http://www.aerosociety.com/media/495...e-spitfire.pdf
Last edited by EXDAC; 21st Jun 2024 at 15:28. Reason: delete propeller reference
Before I ask this question, please be assured that I mean no disrespect to the friends and family of Sqn Ldr Long and this question is asked for a genuine event planning reason.
Is it realistic to assume that the BBMF will not be fulfilling their planned flying activities over the forthcoming Armed Forces Day weekend? As mentioned above, and understandably, contacts at BBMF have gone quiet and there has been no confirmation either way. I am trying to advise someone who is involved in organising an AFD event and they need to make sure that they dont publicise something that wont be happening. (although most are understanding and sympathetic, there are always people who arent and will cause hell)
Thanks for any answers that you can provide
Is it realistic to assume that the BBMF will not be fulfilling their planned flying activities over the forthcoming Armed Forces Day weekend? As mentioned above, and understandably, contacts at BBMF have gone quiet and there has been no confirmation either way. I am trying to advise someone who is involved in organising an AFD event and they need to make sure that they dont publicise something that wont be happening. (although most are understanding and sympathetic, there are always people who arent and will cause hell)
Thanks for any answers that you can provide
So I would advise your friend not to expect to see them and if by chance they do fly, then it would be a beautiful sight and sound to behold. I wouldn't be building hopes of seeing them though, probably better to say that it is unlikely to happen thus avoiding disappointment and not building up expectations too much (as building expectations usually results in a minority of angry individuals when the "promised" event doesn't happen).
Tbh I think we will be fortunate if we see them back in the air much before the start of the 2025 season on the basis that as investigations go, its still early days and on a personal level it has hit them all very hard.
JMHO.
Fascinating paper but I found no mention of engine out glide ratio or best glide speed
Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment Martlesham Heath
September 1936
Handling trials of the Spitfire K.5054
SUMMARY OF FLYING QUALITIES.
September 1936
Handling trials of the Spitfire K.5054
SUMMARY OF FLYING QUALITIES.
The aeroplane is simple and easy to fly and has no vices. All controls are entirely satisfactory for this type and no modification to them is required, except that the elevator control might be improved by reducing the gear ratio between the control column and elevator. The controls are well harmonised and appear to give an excellent compromise between manoeuvrability and steadiness for shooting. Take-off and landing are straightforward and easy.
The aeroplane has rather a flat glide, even when the undercarriage and flaps are down and has a considerable float if the approach is made a little too fast. This defect could be remedied by fitting higher drag flaps.
In general the handling of this aeroplane is such that it can be flown by the average fully trained service fighter pilot, but there can be no doubt that it would be improved by having flaps giving a higher drag.
The aeroplane has rather a flat glide, even when the undercarriage and flaps are down and has a considerable float if the approach is made a little too fast. This defect could be remedied by fitting higher drag flaps.
In general the handling of this aeroplane is such that it can be flown by the average fully trained service fighter pilot, but there can be no doubt that it would be improved by having flaps giving a higher drag.
Sorry about that, old age finger trouble.The T-28B/C has a clean glide ratio of 11.7 by way of comparision of this class of aircraft, with gear and flaps the ratio is reduced to 5.7, opening the canopy will further reduce the ratio to 5.2, if you want to replicate a perforated manhole cover you can then lower the speed brake.
I tend to get confused about what is meant by 'reduce' as opposed to 'increase' a ratio, but surely 5.7 to 5.2 is an increase? Otherwise 11.7 to 5.7 is.
Dr Jekyll, in my neck of the woods its how we speak of glide ratios, taking the 11.7 for example it's 11.7:1, we just drop the :1 portion. That is the aircraft will glide 11.7 feet for each one foot of altitude loss.
Thanks, that explains it. I was taking 11.7 to be a fairly dramatic 11:7, not 11.7:1.
"Have you actually read the thread?"
Errrr yes, that's why I asked. Never flown a Spitfire but have a few hours in a P-51, so essentially the same engine. My point is that I struggle to believe they don't know the cause - and that intel should be shared. Sample the fuel, then tear the engine down, you'll soon see what the cause of this tragic accident was. If its likely to happen again, (maybe there's a component in the fuel system that's showing its age, for example - but is rarely checked) then maybe the BBMF might like to share its findings with the wider warbird community? There's a lot of Merlins and Packard Merlins flying these days.
Errrr yes, that's why I asked. Never flown a Spitfire but have a few hours in a P-51, so essentially the same engine. My point is that I struggle to believe they don't know the cause - and that intel should be shared. Sample the fuel, then tear the engine down, you'll soon see what the cause of this tragic accident was. If its likely to happen again, (maybe there's a component in the fuel system that's showing its age, for example - but is rarely checked) then maybe the BBMF might like to share its findings with the wider warbird community? There's a lot of Merlins and Packard Merlins flying these days.
So you have a few P-51 hours, but are you the owner, operator or Continued Airworthiness Manager of the aircraft, engine or propeller type involved?
If you are, and if the Type Certificate Holder of the equipment believes that there's an airworthiness problem, and they have a means of identifying it, fixing it, mitigating risk or recommending a prohibition of flight, then they or your Regulatory Authority will be in touch via an SB or AD.
This isn't facebook.
If you are, and if the Type Certificate Holder of the equipment believes that there's an airworthiness problem, and they have a means of identifying it, fixing it, mitigating risk or recommending a prohibition of flight, then they or your Regulatory Authority will be in touch via an SB or AD.
This isn't facebook.
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