Spitfire down
In a former life in Jockistan I was called by one of the Red Top Rags to do a job.
A wages robbery had taken place at a local Army Base and a squaddie had been killed !
The requirement was to go to the family house and get a shot of the grieving widow, preferably with babe in arms and hopefully crying !!
I was told not to worry about access. They would send someone with me to ensure that the widow would be made available !
I promptly told them how far to stick it, after which they said " you will never work for us again "
My reply was " never worked for you before, so no great loss mate"
Dickheads !!
A wages robbery had taken place at a local Army Base and a squaddie had been killed !
The requirement was to go to the family house and get a shot of the grieving widow, preferably with babe in arms and hopefully crying !!
I was told not to worry about access. They would send someone with me to ensure that the widow would be made available !
I promptly told them how far to stick it, after which they said " you will never work for us again "
My reply was " never worked for you before, so no great loss mate"
Dickheads !!
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Sir,
Please read this as a respectful and sincere reply to your above message where you say the following
I know the military will close ranks on this. That will also achieve nothing.
I’m afraid to say you are quite wrong with this statement. The military will do a thorough and professional investigation which will be made public in time, the lessons of which will be clearly articulated. We must first be patient and allow the investigative team the time to establish the facts.
Proof of this openness is easy to find. Every major accident has the full report made public, just search and you will find them.
Within military aviation we have a very open culture to reporting issues and acting upon them. We never ‘close ranks’, we do make mistakes, like every organisation, but we have everything in place to report them and learn from them. Our safety culture is world leading and I’m sure many are very proud of it.
kind regards
RIP Sqn Ldr Long
Please read this as a respectful and sincere reply to your above message where you say the following
I know the military will close ranks on this. That will also achieve nothing.
I’m afraid to say you are quite wrong with this statement. The military will do a thorough and professional investigation which will be made public in time, the lessons of which will be clearly articulated. We must first be patient and allow the investigative team the time to establish the facts.
Proof of this openness is easy to find. Every major accident has the full report made public, just search and you will find them.
Within military aviation we have a very open culture to reporting issues and acting upon them. We never ‘close ranks’, we do make mistakes, like every organisation, but we have everything in place to report them and learn from them. Our safety culture is world leading and I’m sure many are very proud of it.
kind regards
RIP Sqn Ldr Long
Sadly I am not sure the families of the Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash or the victims of the Red Arrows "excesses" would agree.
The following 11 users liked this post by Thoughtful_Flyer:
Sir,
Please read this as a respectful and sincere reply to your above message where you say the following
I know the military will close ranks on this. That will also achieve nothing.
I’m afraid to say you are quite wrong with this statement. The military will do a thorough and professional investigation which will be made public in time, the lessons of which will be clearly articulated. We must first be patient and allow the investigative team the time to establish the facts.
Proof of this openness is easy to find. Every major accident has the full report made public, just search and you will find them.
Within military aviation we have a very open culture to reporting issues and acting upon them. We never ‘close ranks’, we do make mistakes, like every organisation, but we have everything in place to report them and learn from them. Our safety culture is world leading and I’m sure many are very proud of it.
kind regards
RIP Sqn Ldr Long
Please read this as a respectful and sincere reply to your above message where you say the following
I know the military will close ranks on this. That will also achieve nothing.
I’m afraid to say you are quite wrong with this statement. The military will do a thorough and professional investigation which will be made public in time, the lessons of which will be clearly articulated. We must first be patient and allow the investigative team the time to establish the facts.
Proof of this openness is easy to find. Every major accident has the full report made public, just search and you will find them.
Within military aviation we have a very open culture to reporting issues and acting upon them. We never ‘close ranks’, we do make mistakes, like every organisation, but we have everything in place to report them and learn from them. Our safety culture is world leading and I’m sure many are very proud of it.
kind regards
RIP Sqn Ldr Long
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However, on a more serious point, it is important that any investigation is seen to be full, open and impartial and that is virtually impossible when any organisation investigates themselves.
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... but they're not the only Spitfires and Hurricanes flying - have those others been recommended to be grounded?
We often have them overhead around Beachy Head, Eastbourne etc.
We often have them overhead around Beachy Head, Eastbourne etc.
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Icare9, no they are not affected yet, they may be if and when the cause is identified.
But in an organisation such as the BBMF they are in effect insulated from the fleets of the outside world, and until a cause it’s determined, you cannot be sure if the problem lies with your internal practices and maintenance, or with an external problem.
Therefore as it is a critical thing, with flight safety and as the lives of your crews are paramount, the safest course of action and the responsible one is to cease flying until the cause can be identified and rectified.
But in an organisation such as the BBMF they are in effect insulated from the fleets of the outside world, and until a cause it’s determined, you cannot be sure if the problem lies with your internal practices and maintenance, or with an external problem.
Therefore as it is a critical thing, with flight safety and as the lives of your crews are paramount, the safest course of action and the responsible one is to cease flying until the cause can be identified and rectified.
Icare9, no they are not affected yet, they may be if and when the cause is identified.
But in an organisation such as the BBMF they are in effect insulated from the fleets of the outside world, and until a cause it’s determined, you cannot be sure if the problem lies with your internal practices and maintenance, or with an external problem.
Therefore as it is a critical thing, with flight safety and as the lives of your crews are paramount, the safest course of action and the responsible one is to cease flying until the cause can be identified and rectified.
But in an organisation such as the BBMF they are in effect insulated from the fleets of the outside world, and until a cause it’s determined, you cannot be sure if the problem lies with your internal practices and maintenance, or with an external problem.
Therefore as it is a critical thing, with flight safety and as the lives of your crews are paramount, the safest course of action and the responsible one is to cease flying until the cause can be identified and rectified.
I believe the engines are now overhauled by outside contractors as are major overhauls of some of the airframes.
So there could be an issue common to the BBMF & others.
My thoughts and condolences to the family, friends & colleagues of Squadron Leader Mark Long.
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Ok I appoligise for my perhaps ill thought put post. I stand corrected. It was not my intention to upset anyone.
I just upsets me, that we know so little and may have to wait months to find out, why a obviously very talented young pilot perished in such circumstances. I want to know why, although I am well retired.
Yes the wing loading is high, therefore will have a high stall speed and consequently a relatively high touch down speed. That can do a ot of damage. If the aircraft was out of control, stalled for example, the vertical speed is the killer.
It seems the aircraft is relatively intact looking at the photos albeit blown.up. Dare I suggest, is consistent with high vertical speed
For years I have advised fellow aviators to take an interest in accidents, reports. Not morbid but try to find out what happened. This helps us stay out of trouble
There but for the grace of God go some of us
I just upsets me, that we know so little and may have to wait months to find out, why a obviously very talented young pilot perished in such circumstances. I want to know why, although I am well retired.
Yes the wing loading is high, therefore will have a high stall speed and consequently a relatively high touch down speed. That can do a ot of damage. If the aircraft was out of control, stalled for example, the vertical speed is the killer.
It seems the aircraft is relatively intact looking at the photos albeit blown.up. Dare I suggest, is consistent with high vertical speed
For years I have advised fellow aviators to take an interest in accidents, reports. Not morbid but try to find out what happened. This helps us stay out of trouble
There but for the grace of God go some of us
Regardless of aircraft performance, power loss early on take off, which might be a possible cause here, always present a serious problem for the pilot.
Easy to second guess later from the arm chair. You can try 20 different reactions in the sim, and might survive in 5 of them. The pilot did his best, and died. We can only learn, if an investigation reveals the cause and series of events. So we have to wait for that.
Easy to second guess later from the arm chair. You can try 20 different reactions in the sim, and might survive in 5 of them. The pilot did his best, and died. We can only learn, if an investigation reveals the cause and series of events. So we have to wait for that.
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Regardless of aircraft performance, power loss early on take off, which might be a possible cause here, always present a serious problem for the pilot.
Easy to second guess later from the arm chair. You can try 20 different reactions in the sim, and might survive in 5 of them.
Easy to second guess later from the arm chair. You can try 20 different reactions in the sim, and might survive in 5 of them.
And that is not in a WWII fighter aircraft. Huge propeller, high wing loading, high span loading, glide ratio 1:brick. Rare, precious machine with difficult landing characteristics - that is with engine operative. EFATO /power loss is about the worst which can happen in such a machine. To put it a bit in perspective: In WWII for not few types as many pilots died in accidents as in combat. In that regard it is a blessing and sign of professionalism that so few fatal accidents did occur in these types in the last few decades. But sometimes the holes simply line up.
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Excellent example for anyone that hasn't seen it is this in-cockpit video and post incident interview with Mark Levy regarding the engine failure and subsequent forced landing in the field east of Duxford as he tried to nurse a P-51D back to Duxford after engine intermittent engine failure during Flying Legends some years back.
In remembrance of Squadron Leader Mark Long.
https://x.com/RAFLossiemouth/status/1795524207247528191
(Somehow it doesn't want to parse as a Twitter post... but there is a video of the missing man formation they flew in his honour in this post).
https://x.com/RAFLossiemouth/status/1795524207247528191
(Somehow it doesn't want to parse as a Twitter post... but there is a video of the missing man formation they flew in his honour in this post).
Last edited by Jhieminga; 29th May 2024 at 07:33. Reason: Link does not want to play along...
In remembrance of Squadron Leader Mark Long.
https://x.com/RAFLossiemouth/status/1795524207247528191
(Somehow it doesn't want to parse as a Twitter post... but there is a video of the missing man formation they flew in his honour in this post).
https://x.com/RAFLossiemouth/status/1795524207247528191
(Somehow it doesn't want to parse as a Twitter post... but there is a video of the missing man formation they flew in his honour in this post).
Having now seen the various images and video's of Squadron Leader Long, he came across as a deeply caring man, who's love, dedication, respect and enthusiasm shone through in everything that he did. He didn't just do a job, it was his life, his vocation and it was very apparent his dream to be a part of the BBMF and be able to show respect to the many pilots and crew who came before him in years past.
He will be so sorely missed by everyone who's life he touched. A lovely family man taken far too soon.
RIP.
Ok I appoligise for my perhaps ill thought put post. I stand corrected. It was not my intention to upset anyone.
I just upsets me, that we know so little and may have to wait months to find out, why a obviously very talented young pilot perished in such circumstances. I want to know why, although I am well retired.
For years I have advised fellow aviators to take an interest in accidents, reports. Not morbid but try to find out what happened. This helps us stay out of trouble...............
I just upsets me, that we know so little and may have to wait months to find out, why a obviously very talented young pilot perished in such circumstances. I want to know why, although I am well retired.
For years I have advised fellow aviators to take an interest in accidents, reports. Not morbid but try to find out what happened. This helps us stay out of trouble...............
Ditto engine oil. Ditto engine glycol.
And the magnetos will need to be tested under load conditions and rpms.
Maybe also the carburretor will need to be put into a flow bench test rig to see if it works properly under all air flows and temperatures.
Etc.
We do need to know, but we have to be patient. There is no flight recorder, as far as I know, (not originally, anyway),
RIP to the pilot. I always get tears in my eyes when I hear a Merlin engine flying past. So my thanks to him for helping to keep them going.
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Then you obviously haven't understood them.
Thoughtful Flyer mentioned the Chinook crash in 1994. Have you not studied the MoD's admission that the aircraft was not airworthy, meaning they grossly misled parliament and the fatal accident inquiry?
Back to your studying!
Thoughtful Flyer mentioned the Chinook crash in 1994. Have you not studied the MoD's admission that the aircraft was not airworthy, meaning they grossly misled parliament and the fatal accident inquiry?
Back to your studying!
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