Puma Overhead Weston On The Green 29/08/02
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Puma Overhead Weston On The Green 29/08/02
As one of the pilots waiting to take a winch launch yesterday afternoon, anyone admit to knowing anything about the RAF Puma that appeared from the south (M40 J9) heading towards the launch point and the parachute DZ at about 17.00 ish...??
It was nice to see a Puma but I'd rather not see it coming towards me whilst I'm sitting wings level hooked onto a winch wire about to launch and with other gliders in circuit!
I got the impression that maybe he / she just realised where they were as it descended rapidly to about 600 ft, skirted around the back of Weston On The Green and departed to the east.
Curiously enough the u/c was down - I'm presuming that being blessed with foldaway wheel Pumas usually transit with them up?
Oh by the way, if the pilot or any of the crew are reading this, Weston DZ were calling you on 135.65...!!!
If you want to offer me a flight thats fine by me - you can try gliding in return!
'BLW'
It was nice to see a Puma but I'd rather not see it coming towards me whilst I'm sitting wings level hooked onto a winch wire about to launch and with other gliders in circuit!
I got the impression that maybe he / she just realised where they were as it descended rapidly to about 600 ft, skirted around the back of Weston On The Green and departed to the east.
Curiously enough the u/c was down - I'm presuming that being blessed with foldaway wheel Pumas usually transit with them up?
Oh by the way, if the pilot or any of the crew are reading this, Weston DZ were calling you on 135.65...!!!
If you want to offer me a flight thats fine by me - you can try gliding in return!
'BLW'
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Sorry Seemore - I'd shot all the fish in the barrel, and fancied something that would bite. One can always rely on half past two, or whatever you call yourselves now pip pip
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Can't see what all the fuss is about, the puma was probably landing at the old depot on the edge of the ATZ or in the field complex just to the south of it - both of which are in the open FIR so what's your beef o gliding chum? Can't cope with the see and avoid principle for Cat G airspace? optically challenged or just a tw@t?
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Please don't get the impression that all glider pilots are like this....
If I was in that position, I would have just abandoned the launch.
I could hardly imagine that the puma crew were there deliberately and if it were due to a mistake or poor airmanship none of us are entirely not guilty of the offence.
If I was in that position, I would have just abandoned the launch.
I could hardly imagine that the puma crew were there deliberately and if it were due to a mistake or poor airmanship none of us are entirely not guilty of the offence.
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Suggest it unlikely that the cab was from thirty to three, perhaps closer to home.
Either way the wonderful explanations by Divergent Phugoid are almost as ridiculous as the original comments. I would suggest that DS is probably closer to the mark remember BLW things often dont appear to be as far away as they are and the wheels suggest a poss landing, (yes they are better off up).
In the event that an over sight meant they recognised Weston late well hey it happens and they took action about it.
Dont flatter yourself that they would have flown in to you, it's rather melodramatic.
As for a flight, helicopters might be flying abominations but at least they have engines! If your machine cant fly on its own then you wouldnt catch me for one in it....
Either way the wonderful explanations by Divergent Phugoid are almost as ridiculous as the original comments. I would suggest that DS is probably closer to the mark remember BLW things often dont appear to be as far away as they are and the wheels suggest a poss landing, (yes they are better off up).
In the event that an over sight meant they recognised Weston late well hey it happens and they took action about it.
Dont flatter yourself that they would have flown in to you, it's rather melodramatic.
As for a flight, helicopters might be flying abominations but at least they have engines! If your machine cant fly on its own then you wouldnt catch me for one in it....
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Oh dear I appear to have ruffled some feathers - allow me to comment in return.
Divergent, I take objection to your response for several reasons.
1) Those who know me or have seen my previous posts will realise that whilst I dont fly the queen's aircraft, I am one of the biggest supporters of military aviation you will find. and regularly find myself defending the RAF to various colleagues who do not perhaps share my enthusiasm for all things blue or green My post was not intended to be a criticism of the crew concerned, rather it was in the perhaps somewhat optimistic hope, of getting an explanation.
2) The launch was abandoned - for reasons of self preservation if nothing else, I do not fancy being launched in the path of anything approaching from my nine o clock. The launch was abandoned at the "All clear above & behind bit" as clearly it wasnt! I suggest therefore that you re-read my post as at no point did I say I was launched!
3) On XC flights where necessary I do monitor the relevant airfield ATIS & Tower frequencies, but as you will know provided you sat outside of that airfield's ATZ or MATZ there is no need to do so.
4) I think you must be confusing WOTG with Bicester - we dont have a depot adjacent, its the other side of the M40.
5) The Puma was observed to the south of WOTG heading west before it then turned and flew straight towards an active (& NOTAM'd) glider site. Note I say towards it, it never flew over us as I would suggest the crew suddenly saw where they were and took avoiding action.
6) As I am sure an obvious professional such as yourself would appreciate, WOTG is also a parachute DZ and danger zone (D129) that was active at the time. Granted we do occassionally have Police choppers in the area but they usually stay low level and talk to the DZ controller, who incidentally is RAF and therefore by your definition also a professional! In this case the Puma did not call the DZ (we are in contact with the DZ controller), neither did the Puma respond to their calls as he penetrated the drop zone!
With the greatest respect therefore Divergent, please retract neck!
Meurig & DS,
I hope my response above clarifies matters.
'BLW'
Divergent, I take objection to your response for several reasons.
1) Those who know me or have seen my previous posts will realise that whilst I dont fly the queen's aircraft, I am one of the biggest supporters of military aviation you will find. and regularly find myself defending the RAF to various colleagues who do not perhaps share my enthusiasm for all things blue or green My post was not intended to be a criticism of the crew concerned, rather it was in the perhaps somewhat optimistic hope, of getting an explanation.
2) The launch was abandoned - for reasons of self preservation if nothing else, I do not fancy being launched in the path of anything approaching from my nine o clock. The launch was abandoned at the "All clear above & behind bit" as clearly it wasnt! I suggest therefore that you re-read my post as at no point did I say I was launched!
3) On XC flights where necessary I do monitor the relevant airfield ATIS & Tower frequencies, but as you will know provided you sat outside of that airfield's ATZ or MATZ there is no need to do so.
4) I think you must be confusing WOTG with Bicester - we dont have a depot adjacent, its the other side of the M40.
5) The Puma was observed to the south of WOTG heading west before it then turned and flew straight towards an active (& NOTAM'd) glider site. Note I say towards it, it never flew over us as I would suggest the crew suddenly saw where they were and took avoiding action.
6) As I am sure an obvious professional such as yourself would appreciate, WOTG is also a parachute DZ and danger zone (D129) that was active at the time. Granted we do occassionally have Police choppers in the area but they usually stay low level and talk to the DZ controller, who incidentally is RAF and therefore by your definition also a professional! In this case the Puma did not call the DZ (we are in contact with the DZ controller), neither did the Puma respond to their calls as he penetrated the drop zone!
With the greatest respect therefore Divergent, please retract neck!
Meurig & DS,
I hope my response above clarifies matters.
'BLW'
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This is the original Skylark 4, no connection to BLW Skylark 4 other than we know each other and both fly Skylark 4s out of Weston-on-the-Green.
Calm down everybody. BLW is not trying to insult anyone.
Weston is a Danger area, primarily for Para operations, day or night up to 12,500`. The Puma would appear to have been unsure of his position. If he had been sure, he wouldn`t have been there and/or he would have been on DZ frequency.
Divergent Phugoid.
Be careful about making comments about`glider pilots` as a general group. I could probably find a glider pilot with more hours on your type of aircraft than you have.
Mike W
Calm down everybody. BLW is not trying to insult anyone.
Weston is a Danger area, primarily for Para operations, day or night up to 12,500`. The Puma would appear to have been unsure of his position. If he had been sure, he wouldn`t have been there and/or he would have been on DZ frequency.
Divergent Phugoid.
Be careful about making comments about`glider pilots` as a general group. I could probably find a glider pilot with more hours on your type of aircraft than you have.
Mike W
I can recall when attending aircrew selection at Biggin, when asked about previous flying experienced, i recounted my 100hrs of gliding. This raised some sn*iggers from a couple of potential officers who had PPLs. They failed
edited to get sn*iggers to work!!!
edited to get sn*iggers to work!!!
In the Oxford AIAA, 'bloke was training and was temporarily unsure of position' is an excuse I would fail a PPL applicant for in his Skill Test. GET PROFESSIONAL!! Such bolleaux is totally unacceptable in this neck of the woods. Of course, in one of those horrid clattering things he could always have stopped to ask some local rustic where he was.......
Skylark4 - I had the great pleasure of saying hello to RAFLO Calgary the other day.
Skylark4 - I had the great pleasure of saying hello to RAFLO Calgary the other day.
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No excuses for the Puma, but....
Would the glider pilot who savaged the cct at Sywell last Friday evening please consider tuning to the appropriate frequency before entering the ATZ?
I know you have little option when running out of height, but there were 6 ac making like owls as this 'tupperware tornado' turned-up unannounced.
Would the glider pilot who savaged the cct at Sywell last Friday evening please consider tuning to the appropriate frequency before entering the ATZ?
I know you have little option when running out of height, but there were 6 ac making like owls as this 'tupperware tornado' turned-up unannounced.
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WOW!! A Puma can outdo a fixed wing anytime : Even brakes of to 4000 feet ANYTIME !!! Bring your Tornado, or what do you wanna challenge with?? Put your money where your mouth is, talk is cheap, money buys the whisky...!!! So what is the gaff ?? Pull 16.5 ° collective, guys, and get the hell out......
You want the challenge, I have won MANY cases of bets....
Get your revs up fellows, the moon is shinin`tonight....
You want the challenge, I have won MANY cases of bets....
Get your revs up fellows, the moon is shinin`tonight....
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What a corking thread - riveting read. However, Beags has suceeded in flushing me out for the second time in 3 years. Last time, he was squealing about his enforced time in FI. Poster saw you coming and sent the right man for the job.
Beags, I've probably got it wrong and you regularly frequent the Oxford AIAA in your Cherokee, Grob or Kitfox. However, I assumed you just accepted the radar vectors in your massive jet and took the protection of Class D airspace.
Possibly, you know what you're on about and, therefore, it would be inappropriate to suggest that you talking baldocks.
Neil Kay
Beags, I've probably got it wrong and you regularly frequent the Oxford AIAA in your Cherokee, Grob or Kitfox. However, I assumed you just accepted the radar vectors in your massive jet and took the protection of Class D airspace.
Possibly, you know what you're on about and, therefore, it would be inappropriate to suggest that you talking baldocks.
Neil Kay
'bloke was training and was temporarily unsure of position' is an excuse I would fail a PPL applicant for in his Skill Test. GET PROFESSIONAL!! Such bolleaux is totally unacceptable in this neck of the woods.
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DP - well done for coming to the rescue and defending the honour of the Puma force. I am truly sorry if I've genuinely offended someone; it was only meant to be a bit of playful jousting. I'm not sure that keeping it going by referring to a "gash" flight helps matters - we don't want a stampede of gash aviators volunteering - woops there I go again. I will stop there before I get into more trouble!
Once again - I'm most terribly sorry if I've upset any sensitive military aviators bahhhhhhh
PS. I've got an old dictionary if you want it DP
Once again - I'm most terribly sorry if I've upset any sensitive military aviators bahhhhhhh
PS. I've got an old dictionary if you want it DP
The point I was making, albeit probably not very well, was that for a qualified military pilot to savage such a well-known and hazardous place as D129 is not the trifling 'oh yeah-he was temporarily unsure of his position' matter that some have indicated. Put it this way, had he been a civilian he would very probably have been prosecuted - it's certainly happened before for D129 penetration. Which is why any civilian pilot on a PPL Skill Test about to enter D129 would certainly fail the en-route section of the test.
Sorry - but entering danger areas without clearance is a very serious matter. And no, we don't just accept vectors to keep us out of trouble in a VC10, we make certain we know where we are at all times.
Sorry - but entering danger areas without clearance is a very serious matter. And no, we don't just accept vectors to keep us out of trouble in a VC10, we make certain we know where we are at all times.