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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Old 5th Jun 2024, 07:43
  #10961 (permalink)  
 
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Much of the drone footage gets badly distorted as it approaches the target. Does this mean they are encountering defensive interference?
Short range jammer


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Old 5th Jun 2024, 07:45
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix
Much of the drone footage gets badly distorted as it approaches the target. Does this mean they are encountering defensive interference?
I'm guessing thyat due to the time lag ( often quoted at 3 seconds ) those seconds are somehow lost ( on-board processing/storage ? ) in the destruction of the drone
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 07:46
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix
Much of the drone footage gets badly distorted as it approaches the target. Does this mean they are encountering defensive interference?
In most cases, yes.

The Russians have effective Electronic Warfare (EW) capability - which is a major reason why American 'glide bombs' are so ineffective as their old generation GNSS systems are disrupted by the Russians. The fact that the Russian glide-bombs are so devastating tells you that Ukrainian/Western EW is not as good. The glide bombs should be missing all their targets. (Of course, the 'fact' of them hitting their targets could be misinformation, much like the British fed wrong information back to the Germans about targetting of V1 flying bombs and V2 rockets (See Double Cross and V1&V2 targetting disinformation )).

As for the drones, the vehicles being attacked will likely have jammers that radiate in the frequencies that the Russians have determined that the Ukrainians use. The inverse square law determines they get better at jamming the closer the drone gets to the jammer. Obviously, doing things like making the control and feedback channels frequency-hop and use pseudorandom encoding makes it more difficult for jamming to work: but such technology is not cheap, and takes power. There's a cost benefit trade-off. If the drones have independent on-board seeker capability, you only need get close enough for the drone to identify the target - again, takes power, compute facility, and requires sensors. Hitting a drone with enough radio-energy to disrupt the electronics also works, but takes a lot of power, especially if the drone is well-shielded.

It does look like drones are 'the future of warfare'. It looks to me like a seismic shift, much like the deployment of reliable machine guns in the First World War. The 'meat wave' tactics of troops advancing against machine gun fire did not work then (bar a few heroics), and a 'meat wave' against an opponent with a near inexhaustible supply of drones won't work now. Ukraine lacks drones and drone operators.

In the long run, the defender is at a disadvantage in EW. Cheap homing devices that home in on the jammer antennas will disrupt the jamming for long enough to allow drones with other capabilities to do their work. The ideal is to disrupt the (expensive) EW control/generation 'box', rather than the (cheaper) antennas, but disabling the capability for long enough to devastate the enemy is always good enough. Jamming is always more difficult than getting a signal through the noise.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 11:05
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Who wouldn’t leave their hatch open on the battlefield on a nice sunny day…..

Russian T-90M ‘number 815’ elegantly destroyed by FPV drone operator of Pomsta Brigade. Bakhmut front.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 12:41
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It'll buff out just fine.



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Old 5th Jun 2024, 15:45
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Originally Posted by Beamr
If there aren't any ammunition in the carousel that would explode, the turret stays on.

Turret tossing requires that the carousel is loaded and penetrating material reaches the ammunition under the turret floor. Generally that happens when high velocity anti tank weapons such as NLAW or Javelin are used. I doubt that the type of load a drone carries is able to do that.
I wonder if there is a simpler explanation - they're simply not carrying much ammo these days - because they're getting low on supplies - so there's not much to cook off and toss the turret?
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 16:10
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Who wouldn’t leave their hatch open on the battlefield on a nice sunny day…..

Russian T-90M ‘number 815’ elegantly destroyed by FPV drone operator of Pomsta Brigade. Bakhmut front.
Looking more closely at that footage, the tank is already damaged and the crew are long gone. Hence the open hatch. Of course that's no reason to ensure that it's never made operational again.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 16:39
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Originally Posted by tdracer
I wonder if there is a simpler explanation - they're simply not carrying much ammo these days - because they're getting low on supplies - so there's not much to cook off and toss the turret?
Do Russian tanks use wet ammo racks? Are those even relevant these days?
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 17:56
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Kharkiv front….





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Old 5th Jun 2024, 21:22
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Originally Posted by FUMR
Of course that's no reason to ensure that it's never made operational again.
I suspect you mean that it's a good reason for doing so.
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 04:09
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Originally Posted by tdracer
I wonder if there is a simpler explanation - they're simply not carrying much ammo these days - because they're getting low on supplies - so there's not much to cook off and toss the turret?
Based on everything written, one thing the Russians do not have shortage of is artillery shells and I take it that NK et al is providing more. However shortage is a possibility, but why use tanks if you have no ammunition? They are of very little use then.

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
Do Russian tanks use wet ammo racks? Are those even relevant these days?
That's a Sherman thing. Irrelevant since the 50's
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 07:33
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https://kyivindependent.com/politico...rates-ukraine/

Politico: Stalled US F-16 training program frustrates Ukraine

Kyiv wants the United States to train more Ukrainian pilots on F-16 fighter jets, but the U.S. says there are limited spots and too many customers from other nations, Politico reported on June 5, citing Ukrainian and U.S. officials.

Several countries, including the U.S., have pledged to assist Ukrainian aviators with the necessary training under the F-16 coalition framework. The first Ukrainian pilots began their training at Morris Air National Guard Base in Tucson, Arizona, last October.

Ukraine says it has 30 pilots prepared to start the training program in Tucson, but U.S. President Joe Biden maintains that the program only has space for 12 students at a time, three officials toldPolitico.

The same availability issues reportedly also affect training facilities in Denmark and Romania.

Over the past several weeks, Kyiv has officially requested that the U.S. train the additional pilots at the Tucson facility. The U.S. has not granted the request, citing committments to other nations in line for F-16 training at the base.

"We understand they don't want to break those contracts, but they could move their American pilots to a different base for training," Ukrainian lawmaker Sasha Ustinova told Politico.

Maj. Erin Hannigan, a spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard, confirmed the limitations in training slots to Politico and said there were compounding reasons for the lack of slots.

"On top of the Ukrainian students, there are multiple other countries that have reserved training throughout the year," Hannigan said.

"The number of foreign student pilots and where they come from is not determined by our schoolhouse, there are many other factors that play a part in the numbers such as funding, country requests, graduation of students from English learning, and allotment."

A total of 20 Ukrainian pilots are anticipate to complete F-16 training by the end of 2024. That number is only half of the 40 aviators needed to operate a full squadron of 20 F-16 jets.

Eight new pilots will begin training at the facility in Romania, while another eight are set to undergo training at the Tucson base. For the rest of the year, across all training sites, only four spots will be available for Ukrainian pilots, one official told Politico.

Ukraine will not have a full squadron of pilots before the end of 2025, a former U.S. Defense Dapartment official told Politico.
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 08:11
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How about Flying Tigers 2.0? There must be a ton of experienced F-16 pilots out there.
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 10:43
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Originally Posted by Beamr
Based on everything written, one thing the Russians do not have shortage of is artillery shells and I take it that NK et al is providing more. However shortage is a possibility, but why use tanks if you have no ammunition? They are of very little use then.
I believe quite the opposite which is, I belive , supported very evidently by the fact that Shoigu had to go to NK to beg for shells, which have subsequently proved to be of miserable quality.( numerous videos/ quoted reports from Russians on this thread )
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 10:58
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
I believe quite the opposite which is, I belive , supported very evidently by the fact that Shoigu had to go to NK to beg for shells, which have subsequently proved to be of miserable quality.( numerous videos/ quoted reports from Russians on this thread )
Wasn't there a recent comment that claimed NK shells arrive at the front covered in thick grease that has to be laboriously cleaned off before they can be used?
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 12:05
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
I believe quite the opposite which is, I belive , supported very evidently by the fact that Shoigu had to go to NK to beg for shells, which have subsequently proved to be of miserable quality.( numerous videos/ quoted reports from Russians on this thread )
they did, but Russia has moved towards war economics and boosted ammunition production. Estimates are they are currently making 250000 shells monthly. Imported shells on top of that.

https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/wea...ia-and-ukraine
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-is...-cost-13143224
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 18:38
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Macron announces Mirage 2000 fighters for Ukraine.
In French
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 19:35
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Originally Posted by Eclectic
Macron announces Mirage 2000 fighters for Ukraine.
In French
The French have a good history of follow through on military contracts and will no doubt allow the Ukrainian pilots and ground crews to train on them. Unlike the fiasco in #10972 above where the American political-military complex is delaying F16 training until a pro-Putin president is in the White House.

Slowly and ponderously the American Military Industrial complex is losing its attraction as a supplier of choice. Support can be removed on the political whim of a minority in their government.



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Old 6th Jun 2024, 21:18
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'The Conversation' update;
Ammunition, Kharkiv, and Asian views

https://theconversationuk.cmail19.co...-nirulyukid-r/
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Old 6th Jun 2024, 22:40
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Originally Posted by anxiao
The French have a good history of follow through on military contracts and will no doubt allow the Ukrainian pilots and ground crews to train on them. Unlike the fiasco in #10972 above where the American political-military complex is delaying F16 training until a pro-Putin president is in the White House.

Slowly and ponderously the American Military Industrial complex is losing its attraction as a supplier of choice. Support can be removed on the political whim of a minority in their government.
I am very puzzled by the situation re US F-16 training (assuming the article above is accurate). It reads rather like a scene from Yes Minister.

What is going on? Why are the Americans dragging their feet on this? I doubt the real reason is Trump/MAGA - they are not in power, and I doubt they could bring to bear such influence over the DOD. A large aid package was recently passed despite their opposition!
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