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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Old 20th Oct 2023, 07:05
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A brief update on both airfields:

- Nearly all helicopters have been relocated from the airstrip, with only a few remaining in Luhansk

-Berdyansk Airfield appears to retain approximately six helicopters, which are undergoing some maintenance, likely before their relocation. I can't say with certainty, but it appears they are removing blades for subsequent ground transportation.

At least 6 helicopters are irreparably damaged due to fire, 1 is in poor condition, and 1 likely has already been removed, making it challenging to determine its exact state

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Old 20th Oct 2023, 08:10
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Apparently Russians have intensified their attack efforts in the areas Avdiivka and Kupiansk leading to record losses.
the numbers are phenomenal.



Just one of the videos of these attacks.


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Old 20th Oct 2023, 08:38
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Originally Posted by Beamr
Apparently Russians have intensified their attack efforts in the areas Avdiivka and Kupiansk leading to record losses.
the numbers are phenomenal.
Cowed and inexperienced field commanders having their tactics decided by the Kremlin?
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 08:56
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
Cowed and inexperienced field commanders having their tactics decided by the Kremlin?
Drip feeding the meat grinder, one wonders if they would have been more successful in sending them all at once in a mass attack, in the hope that they would overwhelm the defences.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 08:59
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 09:05
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
Cowed and inexperienced field commanders having their tactics decided by the Kremlin?
not much of tactics there to mention. Just inexperience.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 09:06
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Look at those figures of troop losses and Armour... Tanks, APC's etc, they are staggering. To put them into perspective, that would be like destroying the whole of the UK's planned Challenger 3 tank force in three days!


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Old 20th Oct 2023, 09:19
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
Cowed and inexperienced field commanders having their tactics decided by the Kremlin?
Seems like 1944 Ardennes offensive ordered by Hitler. Wehrmacht units spent for this nonsense would be much better utilised for defensive operations and the same thing can be said about Russians wasted for this suicide missions.


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Old 20th Oct 2023, 09:41
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More Ukrainian operations across the Dnipro


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Old 20th Oct 2023, 09:53
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And still they try...

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Old 20th Oct 2023, 10:58
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Don’t knock them, cheap, easy to produce by the thousands and probably wildly inaccurate, but needs must and they look easily portable and could be the difference between being over run or surviving.
How many shots before the barrel splits or the weld at the base fails? Presumably using standard munitions intended to be fired from much heavier tubes.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 11:02
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Originally Posted by Pali
Seems like 1944 Ardennes offensive ordered by Hitler. Wehrmacht units spent for this nonsense would be much better utilised for defensive operations and the same thing can be said about Russians wasted for this suicide missions.

Not too sure you are correct. The Ardennes offensive was well-planned and integrated with air, special ops, weather forecasts, the lot.
There was a moment when it looked as if the Allies' seaports might indeed be cut off.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I think it was worth a cockshy given the circumstances.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 11:39
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Look at those figures of troop losses and Armour... Tanks, APC's etc, they are staggering. To put them into perspective, that would be like destroying the whole of the UK's planned Challenger 3 tank force in three days!


You have to admire Russia. It's one of the few countries on this planet that can sustain such losses without suffering an internal political defeat.
Can you imagine if those losses were British. It just wouldn't happen.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 11:44
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Originally Posted by Andrewgr2
How many shots before the barrel splits or the weld at the base fails? Presumably using standard munitions intended to be fired from much heavier tubes.
What will it do for the morale of the defenders to be issued with those things?
Would they stay and fire them at the heavily armed approaching Ukrainians, or would they turn and run?
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 11:59
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
What will it do for the morale of the defenders to be issued with those things?
Would they stay and fire them at the heavily armed approaching Ukrainians, or would they turn and run?
Personally I'd be highly sceptical about the provenance of those 'mortars'. Small and medium sized mortars are cheap as chips to manufacture and a mainstay of the infantry - surely Ruzzia has hundreds of thousands of them ex WW2 in warehouses, they don't deteriroate over decades as long as they aren't allowed to rust - why would they be wanting to bodge up shoddy things like that? With a little more sophisitcation they could be made more or less aimable. The ones shown are backstreet Bogside quality. I rather doubt that they are really anything to do with the Ruzzian army.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 12:00
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
What will it do for the morale of the defenders to be issued with those things?
Would they stay and fire them at the heavily armed approaching Ukrainians, or would they turn and run?
If retreating they would be facing the trigger happy tiktok fighters. The mobiks don't have a choice.

According to some reports, in worst parts of the front only 20% of mobiks survived the first four months in the battle. And not all were killed by UKR fire.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 13:12
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Originally Posted by munnst
You have to admire Russia. It's one of the few countries on this planet that can sustain such losses without suffering an internal political defeat.
Can you imagine if those losses were British. It just wouldn't happen.
Completely deranged comment to me . Why on earth is there any possible reason to admire a country/regime that places no value at all on the lives of its citizens and is willing to sacrifice them at the whim of their dictator ?

I think there are very few countries that would accept such losses, and they all happen to be allies of Mad Vlad.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 14:11
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Not too sure you are correct. The Ardennes offensive was well-planned and integrated with air, special ops, weather forecasts, the lot.
There was a moment when it looked as if the Allies' seaports might indeed be cut off.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I think it was worth a cockshy given the circumstances.
I can understand that leadership of Germany was desperate and gambled with the last ditch effort to thwart onslaught of western allies, but even this article says it was a mistake.

He had hoped the offensive to be a turning point of the war in Germany's favor, but ultimately it turned out to be a disastrous mistake that claimed tens of thousands of lives.
https://history.army.mil/html/refere...s%20of%20lives.

In case of Avdiivka it seems like desperate attempt to gain initiative but the losses are unbearable. I would even say that Russian military is doing exactly what Zaluzhny would wish them to do because instead of fast manoeuvre of combined arms ZSU is systematically erasing tanks, artillery, air force, navy, and large numbers of infantry. Why? Because it is not only about pushing Russians out of country but also to make sure that they will not be able to return for years to come. As general Hodges says: "You can defeat mass with precision." And Avdiivka is almost a mass extinction event.

If we look at attrition of Russian artillery which is for decades their main weapon in any war is obvious, just check the trend in daily consumption of shells. I would bet that ZSU will follow this strategy for a while and we may observe a real collapse in the very end.



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Old 20th Oct 2023, 14:39
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
What will it do for the morale of the defenders to be issued with those things?
Would they stay and fire them at the heavily armed approaching Ukrainians, or would they turn and run?
It's not that simple; IIRC turning and running resulted in being shot by their own side.....
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 17:04
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​​​​​​​Even after several days of constant failures, Russians continue to mindlessly push against the fortress Avdiivka. The burnt out predecessor waves of Russian armored vehicles are literally clogging the pathways so that following vehicles have to push their way through only to get obliterated themselves.

If the Russian tactic was to banking on Ukrainians running out of ammo then they completely misjudged the situation. This is Vuhledar on steroids.
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