Ukraine War Thread Part 2
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More on the nets across the roads, I wonder if they illuminate at night like Blackpool
It also is mature weapons system with substantial track record of effectiveness (Desert Storm and OIF among two examples) - not taking anything away from S-S, it appears to be doing a bang up job.(Pun intended)
The bolded part is sufficient reason to be desirous of ATACMS, and I am not sure if the air defenses would be able to handle it all that well. It has some properties of a ballistic missile, but it is also able to maneuver.
Ukraine has wanted it since the American Government offered to ship weapons to help them defend their country ... s offered any help at all.
The bolded part is sufficient reason to be desirous of ATACMS, and I am not sure if the air defenses would be able to handle it all that well. It has some properties of a ballistic missile, but it is also able to maneuver.
Ukraine has wanted it since the American Government offered to ship weapons to help them defend their country ... s offered any help at all.
"While the British Storm Shadow has proved highly effective, the ATACMS – or “Army Tactical Missile System” – is on another level. Equipped with a 500-pound warhead, it is blazingly fast; while the Storm Shadow and Scalp-EG take 15 minutes to cover a distance of 190 miles, an ATACMS missile will cover the same ground in just five minutes.
Better still, it’s ground launched. While the Storm Shadow requires fighter jets for delivery, the ATACMS utilises the M-142 Himars rocket artillery launcher, which is already in service in Ukraine. This combination of high speed and easy delivery means that ATACMS is better able to engage time-sensitive targets, including mobile missile launchers and high-ranking military officials on frontline visits."
Speed of reaction was one element I didn't take into account. From some reports, it seems as if only missiles with cluster munition war-heads will be delievered. This might be an excellent weapon for attacking airfields and being able to hit numerous planes with the spread of 300 sub-munitions.but the HE-warhead really is essential to be able to attack targets ssuch as the Black Sea Fleet HQ or the Kerch Bridge.
The article also claims there are large numbers of time-expired missiles. As is often said, "things are different in wartime": is there no procedure for a quick and dirty inspection and re-certifying ? I post this in hope, but given the time required for examining the propellant of rockert-motors to be used in the GLSDB, makes me dubious, although there is no indication of the quantities of ATACMS involved.
Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 26th Sep 2023 at 14:35.
Excerpt from an article in today's DT (paywall ) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...iden-zelensky/
"While the British Storm Shadow has proved highly effective, the ATACMS – or “Army Tactical Missile System” – is on another level. Equipped with a 500-pound warhead, it is blazingly fast; while the Storm Shadow and Scalp-EG take 15 minutes to cover a distance of 190 miles, an ATACMS missile will cover the same ground in just five minutes.
Better still, it’s ground launched. While the Storm Shadow requires fighter jets for delivery, the ATACMS utilises the M-142 Himars rocket artillery launcher, which is already in service in Ukraine. This combination of high speed and easy delivery means that ATACMS is better able to engage time-sensitive targets, including mobile missile launchers and high-ranking military officials on frontline visits."
"While the British Storm Shadow has proved highly effective, the ATACMS – or “Army Tactical Missile System” – is on another level. Equipped with a 500-pound warhead, it is blazingly fast; while the Storm Shadow and Scalp-EG take 15 minutes to cover a distance of 190 miles, an ATACMS missile will cover the same ground in just five minutes.
Better still, it’s ground launched. While the Storm Shadow requires fighter jets for delivery, the ATACMS utilises the M-142 Himars rocket artillery launcher, which is already in service in Ukraine. This combination of high speed and easy delivery means that ATACMS is better able to engage time-sensitive targets, including mobile missile launchers and high-ranking military officials on frontline visits."
Speed of reaction was one element I didn't take into account.
From some reports, it seems as if only missiles with cluster munition war-heads will be delivered.
If I was going to do a coordinated strike, having the ability to engage the enemy in depth may be useful as one attempts another breakthrough or advance.
This might be an excellent weapon for attacking airfields and being able to hit numerous planes with the spread of 300 sub-munitions.but the HE-warhead really is essential to be able to attack targets ssuch as the Black Sea Fleet HQ or the Kerch Bridge.
I am pretty sure that they'll have more targets that various commanders want to hit than they'll have assets. .
The article also claims there are large numbers of time-expired missiles. As is often said, "things are different in wartime": is there no procedure for a quick and dirty inspection and re-certifying ? I post this in hope, but given the time required for examining the propellant of rockert-motors to be used in the GLSDB, makes me dubious, although there is no indication of the quantities of ATACMS involved.
I expect that they can be brought up to date, but I can't confirm it.
Experts agree that the Surovikin line was built with a typical defense in depth strategy in mind, designed to inflict maximum attrition to the attacker, while preventing a tactical breach from turning into a strategic breakthrough like what Ukraine achieved in Kharkiv Oblast. Though the Russian command’s management of its defensive lines has been criticized as going against Surovikin’s original strategy, the Ukrainians tasked with assaulting them speak with respect for the way Russian troops have dug in.
“I'll say it now,” Oleksandr said, “the Russians are the best in the world when it comes to building fortified defenses; minefields, strongholds, they know this very well.”
Having passed the minefields and made a successful breach, Yaroslav is hopeful that more is yet to come.
“At the moment, we have created the biggest breach here,” he said. “We have gotten past the toughest part, now the job is to widen the breach. It should be a lot easier going forward, thank God there aren't as many mines.”
“I'll say it now,” Oleksandr said, “the Russians are the best in the world when it comes to building fortified defenses; minefields, strongholds, they know this very well.”
Having passed the minefields and made a successful breach, Yaroslav is hopeful that more is yet to come.
“At the moment, we have created the biggest breach here,” he said. “We have gotten past the toughest part, now the job is to widen the breach. It should be a lot easier going forward, thank God there aren't as many mines.”
It seems that the time expired missiles may all be cluster & that while electronics & propellants may be replaced it's the "non compliant" M74's that may be the reason for them being "expired";
"Block (BLK) I/IA missiles currently have warheads (WHs) that are non-compliant with the 2008 Department of Defense (DoD) policy on cluster munitions (CM). The modification will be performed as a Service Life
Extension Program (SLEP) and will take expired assets and reset them to a 10 year service life. This effort will replace the existing M74 bomblets with a policy compliant WH, update electronics and propellants.
This effort effectively brings the expired inventory back into service, while meeting the DoD CM Policy, to engage targets up to 300 kilometers (km). A Height-of-Burst capability may be introduced under this
modification pending test program results under PE 0203802A. New missile builds may be included under this effort if sufficient assets are not available to SLEP."
https://www.dacis.com/budget/budget_...3CA6700_16.pdf
"Block (BLK) I/IA missiles currently have warheads (WHs) that are non-compliant with the 2008 Department of Defense (DoD) policy on cluster munitions (CM). The modification will be performed as a Service Life
Extension Program (SLEP) and will take expired assets and reset them to a 10 year service life. This effort will replace the existing M74 bomblets with a policy compliant WH, update electronics and propellants.
This effort effectively brings the expired inventory back into service, while meeting the DoD CM Policy, to engage targets up to 300 kilometers (km). A Height-of-Burst capability may be introduced under this
modification pending test program results under PE 0203802A. New missile builds may be included under this effort if sufficient assets are not available to SLEP."
https://www.dacis.com/budget/budget_...3CA6700_16.pdf
It seems that the time expired missiles may all be cluster & that while electronics & propellants may be replaced it's the "non compliant" M74's that may be the reason for them being "expired";
"Block (BLK) I/IA missiles currently have warheads (WHs) that are non-compliant with the 2008 Department of Defense (DoD) policy on cluster munitions (CM). The modification will be performed as a Service Life
Extension Program (SLEP) and will take expired assets and reset them to a 10 year service life. This effort will replace the existing M74 bomblets with a policy compliant WH, update electronics and propellants.
This effort effectively brings the expired inventory back into service, while meeting the DoD CM Policy, to engage targets up to 300 kilometers (km). A Height-of-Burst capability may be introduced under this
modification pending test program results under PE 0203802A. New missile builds may be included under this effort if sufficient assets are not available to SLEP."
https://www.dacis.com/budget/budget_...3CA6700_16.pdf
"Block (BLK) I/IA missiles currently have warheads (WHs) that are non-compliant with the 2008 Department of Defense (DoD) policy on cluster munitions (CM). The modification will be performed as a Service Life
Extension Program (SLEP) and will take expired assets and reset them to a 10 year service life. This effort will replace the existing M74 bomblets with a policy compliant WH, update electronics and propellants.
This effort effectively brings the expired inventory back into service, while meeting the DoD CM Policy, to engage targets up to 300 kilometers (km). A Height-of-Burst capability may be introduced under this
modification pending test program results under PE 0203802A. New missile builds may be included under this effort if sufficient assets are not available to SLEP."
https://www.dacis.com/budget/budget_...3CA6700_16.pdf
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ter-munitions/
"The Biden administration plans to provide Ukraine with a version of ATACMS long-range missiles armed with cluster bomblets rather than a single warhead, according to several people familiar with the ongoing deliberations.
The cluster-armed ATACMS, with a range of up to 190 miles, depending on the version, could allow Ukraine to strike command posts, ammunition stores and logistics routes far behind Russian front lines and dug-in defenses. Ukraine, with backing from a number of U.S. lawmakers, has been asking since last year for ATACMS, which stands for Army Tactical Missile System.
Cluster-armed ATACMS are no longer considered a front-line U.S. weapon. From an estimated original production of 2,500, some from the early 1990s, many were later refitted with unitary warheads, according to a fiscal year 2018 Defense Department publication. Consideration of the cluster warhead ATACMS was first reported by Reuters.
tAs of the end of August, the Army had 1,486 ATACMS in its arsenal, 1,122 with unitary warheads and 364 armed with cluster munitions, according to information it provided to lawmakers. The Pentagon has repeatedly declined to provide the number of ATACMS. The ground-launched missiles are to be phased out, beginning later this year, by a newer long-range system. ATACMS are still in production, with Lockheed Martin under contract to produce 500 a year, but all are designated for overseas sales."
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Russia’s Black Sea Fleet Commander Admiral Viktor Nikolayevich Sokolov participates in a meeting of the board of the Russian Ministry of Defense after Ukrainian claims that he was killed.
The Ukrainian Special Operations Force released a clarification regarding the strike on the Black Sea HQ, and alleged death of Admiral Sokolov, who purportedly reappeared in a Russian video today:
"Clarification of information regarding the destruction of the commander of the Russian Navy
As is known, 34 officers were killed as a result of a missile attack on the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation. Available sources claim that among the dead was the commander of the Russian Army. Many still have not been identified due to the disparity of body fragments.
Since the Russians were urgently forced to publish an answer with an apparently alive Sokolov, our units are clarifying the information. This happens within the procedure for collecting data on the results of the operation."
The Ukrainian Special Operations Force released a clarification regarding the strike on the Black Sea HQ, and alleged death of Admiral Sokolov, who purportedly reappeared in a Russian video today:
"Clarification of information regarding the destruction of the commander of the Russian Navy
As is known, 34 officers were killed as a result of a missile attack on the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation. Available sources claim that among the dead was the commander of the Russian Army. Many still have not been identified due to the disparity of body fragments.
Since the Russians were urgently forced to publish an answer with an apparently alive Sokolov, our units are clarifying the information. This happens within the procedure for collecting data on the results of the operation."
It seems that the time expired missiles may all be cluster
As in the time expired items apparently being sent to UKR, not all expired stock.
If the primary reason for the expired status is the M74 bomblet & this is due to a compliance issue it's possible that they work fine, but not as now desired by the US. I'm thinking operationally they are fine for UKR & not expired in the traditional safety or performance areas?
As in the time expired items apparently being sent to UKR, not all expired stock.
If the primary reason for the expired status is the M74 bomblet & this is due to a compliance issue it's possible that they work fine, but not as now desired by the US. I'm thinking operationally they are fine for UKR & not expired in the traditional safety or performance areas?
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Easy enough to take a previous feed of a dead guy and slot it in amongst the living...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
SBU special operations are reaching a new level
"Blackout" in Kursk region of Russia was organized by the SBU - sources
Our sources in the SBU confirmed that it was a drone of the special service that dropped an explosive device on a power substation in the village of Snagost, Kursk region. As a result, seven settlements were left without electricity.
Such "cotton" is evidence that SBU special operations are reaching a new level. "The Russians must understand that if they are going to continue attacking Ukrainian energy facilities, they will receive a tough response. Our resources allow us to do this," adds the source in the Service.
"So we really want the Russians to experience what blackouts, outage schedules and generator searches are like.
"Blackout" in Kursk region of Russia was organized by the SBU - sources
Our sources in the SBU confirmed that it was a drone of the special service that dropped an explosive device on a power substation in the village of Snagost, Kursk region. As a result, seven settlements were left without electricity.
Such "cotton" is evidence that SBU special operations are reaching a new level. "The Russians must understand that if they are going to continue attacking Ukrainian energy facilities, they will receive a tough response. Our resources allow us to do this," adds the source in the Service.
"So we really want the Russians to experience what blackouts, outage schedules and generator searches are like.
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The result will be the same and they'll know they're getting the pjss taken out of them
...maybe have a flag attached to the dart that says "Bang" or better still "Pop"
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Not sure if this is Russian, Iranian or North Korean shells - or all three….
A Russian at the front complaining that brand new artillery shells have been arriving from the factory with explosive elements already stolen.…
A Russian at the front complaining that brand new artillery shells have been arriving from the factory with explosive elements already stolen.…
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Don’t ask the question unless you’re ready for the answer.
And for those that don’t know, Poland and Ukraine have made up after their latest spat - Poland is establishing corridors for Ukrainian grain and confirmed they will continue to supply their old Russian tanks etc as new western/Korean kit arrives…
Russian propagandist Orca Skabejeva got an unwanted answer to the question if Poland would really reduce military aid to Ukraine.
Well, she did thank him for his honest answer 😜
And for those that don’t know, Poland and Ukraine have made up after their latest spat - Poland is establishing corridors for Ukrainian grain and confirmed they will continue to supply their old Russian tanks etc as new western/Korean kit arrives…
Russian propagandist Orca Skabejeva got an unwanted answer to the question if Poland would really reduce military aid to Ukraine.
Well, she did thank him for his honest answer 😜
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Edited to add: Or, just fire them anyway and nobody (almost) would know the difference; this would seem the best Russkie way, as the problem would be gone and no one would get blamed.
Last edited by Winemaker; 27th Sep 2023 at 01:36.
curious that such an event can be improved with the artistic use of a slow shutter speed and hi f-stop. Other than being another example of the cost of the crimes of Vlad the vindictive yet slightly vafrous and occasionally vagient vagulator.
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