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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Old 13th Jul 2023, 07:41
  #2761 (permalink)  
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Rostec, Russian state-owned defense conglomerate headquartered in Moscow has banned the use of Apple iPhones, devices, and computers for all of its 450,000 employees for security reasons.

​​​​​​​ The state military-industrial behemoth has about 800 enterprises under the umbrella.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 07:45
  #2762 (permalink)  
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"How soon after the war would you like Ukraine to become a member of NATO?", a journalist asked President Biden at a meeting with Zelensky.

"One hour and 20 minutes", the US president replied….
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 07:54
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Not sure why Zelensky needs to be overly polite.
He knows the clock is ticking with its major supporter the US.
Biden is getting more confused by the day and the thought of him running again is ludicrous and just as ludicrous is that he is the best the Democrats can field. (So who is really running the show in the background)?
The Ukrainians are worried that the Orange Blowhard may get back in and as he put it, will sort out the problem in Ukraine in a day.

Wallace is miffed that the US won't give him the NATO job and so is playing up to the US.

As for the Ukrainians, they know that without a breakthrough they could be fighting in a third winter with the US election looming.
They know they can't just do a Blitzkrieg Banzai charge at the Russian lines in one area as the losses will be too great at home and in the international media.
The only hope they now have is to pull the Russian reserves and attention hither and thither, taking out troop concentrations, command and transport nodes.
They are painfully aware that the UK and others have so badly invested in their defence that we are running out of supplies.

The only upside is the Russians are infighting and that they did such a stupid assault on Kiev in the first weeks, that they lost a great deal of their trained troops and equipment.

The Ukrainians don't have time on their side.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 08:13
  #2764 (permalink)  
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👀👀👀😂😂

​​​​​​​Fascinating geopolitical analysis from Russian propagandists: China exists only due to Russia and Russia is China's largest and post powerful guard from all dangers.

Even Skabeyeva is skeptical.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 08:57
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Originally Posted by ORAC
👀👀👀😂😂



Fascinating geopolitical analysis from Russian propagandists: China exists only due to Russia and Russia is China's largest and post powerful guard from all dangers.

Even Skabeyeva is skeptical.
I didn't realise that it was only Russia's "winning" in Ukraine that was preventing the USA from attacking China. Must get up to speed on my geopolitics. ​​​​​​​
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 10:21
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As a note, the first batch of Abrams has already arrived in Poland…

Witold Waszczykowski, Poland’s Foreign Minister between 2015-2018, has stated that Poland should send all its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine as Germany is too unreliable when it comes to providing spare parts and repairs for the tanks.

Poland has 236 Leopard tanks left.

Poland wouldn’t be able to send all the tanks immediately, but will have to wait for the delivery of 366 Abrams tanks from the U.S. and 180 K2 tanks from South Korea….

​​​​​​​Poland could be able to send more Leopard tanks to Ukraine in batches as the American and South Korean tanks start arriving in Poland in large numbers.

Polish military experts have stated that Poland long-term goal is to get rid of the Leos in order to operate just 2 MBTs.

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Old 13th Jul 2023, 10:28
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Ukrainian Leopard 2a6 survives 2 ATGM hits before deploying smoke cover. Zaporozhye direction, July 2023

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFoota...eb2x&context=3

Interview (in German) with the crew after showing damage to the tank.

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...der-Front.html



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Old 13th Jul 2023, 11:16
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Reddit has a registration wall, so link is only for Reddit subscribers.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 11:50
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State of the Russian army.

​​​​​​​The Russian Ministry of Defense has sent a weapons batch to mobilized in the Luhansk region. Weapons such as PPS submachine guns, PPSh-41, SKS Karabin and other pre-WW2 weaponry can be seen
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 11:52
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Ukraine has already received cluster munitions from the USA.

The commander of the Tavria direction:

"We just got them, haven't used them yet, but they can make a big difference on the battlefield."
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 12:15
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
NATO members have a duty of assistance to every member under attack. Making Ukraine a member now, during a war, would move NATO into full war with Russia. This is why everybody knew that any formal invitation would be impossible until after this war has ended.
I fully accept this reason ... but.... it smells of fear a bit. On the day after Ukraine gets NATO membership would we then happily respond to a drone or missile attack differently from how we do now?
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 12:19
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It would make quite a difference as this would be an attack on common NATO territory, triggering a common response. Exactly this is how current diplomatic warnings concerning possible attacks on the Baltic States have been worded.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 12:25
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Handelsblatt reports that German government has decided to terminate its agreement with Poland to set up a repair center for damaged Ukrainian Leopard 2 tanks in the country.

The German side argues that the Polish price demands were too high.
How typical of Germany, to find yet another excuse not to help. That's been their pattern for about a year and a half.
(On the other hand, their taking in of Ukrainian refugees earns a "well done!").
Originally Posted by ORAC
Ben Wallace being remarkably undiplomatic….
https://news.sky.com/story/uk-not-an...llace-12919765
UK not an Amazon delivery service for weapons to Ukraine, says defence secretary Ben Wallace
The minister said "whether we like it or not people want to see gratitude" for weapons sent to Ukraine, adding that Kyiv needs to "persuade doubting politicians in other countries that you know that it's worth it".
I see no problem with Ben voicing that concern. The political bit is very important if you rely on other nations for your security, and as we see from the Poland/Germany above, it doesn't take much for it to go a little pear shaped. Winning the information war/salesmanship war, is a key to Zelensky's success, so far. No time to rest on one's laurels.
Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
From the NY Times today:
RIP General
I guess that old general didn't just fade away ... (obscure reference to remarks by General Douglas MacArthur).
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 12:37
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How typical of Germany, to find yet another excuse not to help. That's been their pattern for about a year and a half.
They just move the factory to Lithuania instead of Poland.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 12:40
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Originally Posted by ORAC
SPIEGEL has obtained the final paragraph of the draft of NATO's final declaration:
It states that Ukraine can be invited to the Alliance if all members agree that the conditions for this have been met.…
As was the case with previous aspirants going back to Poland, Czech Republic, et al.
Not surprisingly Ukraine's president hit the roof, saying it was "absurd" for Nato leaders not to give even so much as a timetable. The conditions, he said, were "vague".
Welcome to NATO, bitch. Vague and nearly Byzantine in its inner workings, NATO is. Get used to it.
Originally Posted by ORAC
"We reiterated that Ukraine will become a member of NATO and agreed to cancel the requirements for an action plan for membership in the alliance. This will change the path for Ukraine to join NATO, instead of a two-stage process, it will be a one-stage process," Stoltenberg said at a press conference in Vilnius.
According to Stoltenberg, the NATO summit also agreed on the establishment of a Ukraine-NATO council, as well as a multi-year support program aimed at bringing the Ukrainian Armed Forces up to NATO standards.
Which needs to be done before entry, as had been done with others ... but I am confident that it will get done. The Germans need another buffer state to protect themselves from the Russians. ​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by ORAC
Ivan Popov, the major general (chief) of the 58th Russian army, which is now fighting in the southern part of occupied Ukraine, has resigned and recorded a very interesting audio message. ​​​​​​​
His resignation allows him to practice for the 2024 Russian Olympic Window Diving Team.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 12:41
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
They just move the factory to Lithuania instead of Poland.
Because the Germans got a better burdened hour labor rate, or because the Germans still see the Poles as Untermensch? (I am a bit ranty this morning. I've a few friends who are Polish emigres to the US who have a sharp distaste for how Germany treats the Eastern European countries smaller than themselves ...)
The Poles moving their Leopards to Ukraine to make way for Abrams looks like it won't be blocked by the Germans though, right?
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 13:13
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Why flat plains are tank country and why air cover is essential.

Intense footage of Ukrainian infantry attempting to advance from the settlement of Pyatykhatky towards Zherebyanky on the Zaporizhzhia front, and being pinned down by enemy fire.

The shells are constantly landing around them and Russian aircraft can be heard overhead.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 13:49
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
How typical of Germany, to find yet another excuse not to help. That's been their pattern for about a year and a half.
(On the other hand, their taking in of Ukrainian refugees earns a "well done!").
I see no problem with Ben voicing that concern. The political bit is very important if you rely on other nations for your security, and as we see from the Poland/Germany above, it doesn't take much for it to go a little pear shaped. Winning the information war/salesmanship war, is a key to Zelensky's success, so far. No time to rest on one's laurels.
I guess that old general didn't just fade away ... (obscure reference to remarks by General Douglas MacArthur).
Or even more obscure to Private Frank Richards, DCM MM 2nd RWF.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 14:08
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Originally Posted by t43562
I fully accept this reason ... but.... it smells of fear a bit. On the day after Ukraine gets NATO membership would we then happily respond to a drone or missile attack differently from how we do now?
I don’t think we ever go “happily” into war. Hopefully, though, we soberly fulfill our treaty obligations. That’s why we need to be very cautious about the treaty obligations we sign up to. This isn’t cricket, its life and death.
Meanwhile, mostly, we use diplomacy and all other forms of power, including sabre rattling, to gain or keep the peace.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 14:20
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Originally Posted by cliver029
I suspect that a lot of the rhetoric was for domestic consumption, the Ukrainians currently are losing people for a cause and he has to show that he is pushing NATO to provide the wherewithal to help them.
It’s hard to grasp just how much pressure he is under. Courageous UKR lives lost everyday, time running out, the very existence of his country at stake. His use of “rhetoric” and every hard decision he must make is for the sake restoring sovereign peace to the entire country. It may hurt our feelings, but I’m afraid the words “not enough” were the truth. As much as the west has provided, while it is not enough, it has helped to lengthen the conflict. We are probably 18 months late in providing the means to establish air support over the UKR ground forces. Needless time and loss of life is the result.
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