RAF Master Navigator rank abbreviation
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RAF Master Navigator rank abbreviation
I've been trying to establish the correct abbreviation for the (now obsolete?) RAF rank of Master Navigator. Contenders seem to include MNav M.Nav and M/Nav. A wander through the logbooks and other documentation left by my father, who was one, has not produced a definitive answer. It would be great to hear from someone who can resolve this.
It depends when. A very long time ago (e.g. WWII or 1950s) it might have been any of those but since the 70s (which is a mere long time ago) the full stop and slash were not used at all. Good Service Writing (as I was taught at RAFC and OCS) would say it was MNav. That's my bet anyway (and I knew an MPlt), but perhaps to be sure you need someone to find a copy of something like AP3392 which OC PSF always had (in many volumes!).
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Modern usage, MNav etc. WW2 and immediately later, the oblique was in vogue … S/Ldr, F/S, M/Nav. Punctuation was also popular … N.A.T.O. Might have had something to do with clarity on ancient typewriters?
The Master aircrew rank/badge is the leftover from the airmans' trade structure post war which split NCOs into aircrew and ground crew. The 1951 trade structure did away with that, save the Master grade which also covered technical trades and introduced SAC/SACW and Junior, Cpl, Senior and Chief Technicians. That lasted until 1 Apr 64, when much of it was changed again and the rank of Aircraftman/Woman replaced the 1st and 2nd class categories.
Old Duffer (Aircraftman 2nd Class retired 12 Mar 64, rejoined 13 Mar 64 as acting pilot officer)
Old Duffer (Aircraftman 2nd Class retired 12 Mar 64, rejoined 13 Mar 64 as acting pilot officer)
(ex-Service wrinkly joke !)
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I knew a Master Navigator Ness Edwards at Brize Norton in the mid-1970s and he shared his office with two very elderly Master AEOs and I cannot remember their names but one was nicknamed Harry Chunkers but not to his face. There was also a Master Pilot Jack Meakin who was an ex-Javelin pilot These gentlemen were held in great awe and respect by all and sundry and were addressed as "Sir" and it was meant. Does anyone remember or know their service histories or aircraft that they flew?
Last edited by DC10RealMan; 7th Jul 2021 at 18:26.
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Worked with a fair few ‘Masters’ in my ATC career: we had loads of them! Never got round to asking how they wrote their rank … I was too busy learning about ATC and the RAF from them.
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One of my regrets was not asking them about their experiences and service history. In the mid-1970s the chaps I knew must have been 55+ and therefore I suspect that they were World War II veterans and possibly RAF Bomber Command service. I, as a young man barely out of my teens, regarded these "old" men with much affection and respect because to me they were quite intimidating even though they were nice guys and quite grandfatherly, even the Station Commander addressed them by their first names but I suspect no other officer would dare to!
Ness Edwards and I operated on Bevs together in the 60s and he was one one of my console ops in the Brize Sim for a short while before I retired. He was one of a group of, probably, late wartime or early post-war aircrew - something of a breed apart. Many 'characters' amongst them such as Ian McGregor Mcgregor R*****y noted for his regulat demotions and re-instatements and for, on one occasion, ordering a taxi from Abingdon to Glasgow ! His Mess bar behaviour led, one night, at Dishforth, to 'Big Robbie' telling him to "Pick your window" These were the days of Mess 'card schools' and such as 'Capt' Jack Huntingdon - a Transport Command legend, if ever there was one ! Things changed, possibly from the late 60s onwards, and are, probably, a little more restrained nowadays. !
DC10 - I suspect that you knew Ness when he was in Brize Ops. He moved across to the Sim later, 88/89?
DC10 - I suspect that you knew Ness when he was in Brize Ops. He moved across to the Sim later, 88/89?
I knew a Master Navigator Ness Edwards at Brize Norton in the mid-1970s and he shared his office with two very elderly Master AEOs and I cannot remember their names but one was nicknamed Harry Chunkers but not to his face. There was also a Master Pilot Jack Meakin who was an ex-Javelin pilot These gentlemen were held in great awe and respect by all and sundry and were addressed as "Sir" and it was meant. Does anyone remember or know their service histories or aircraft that they flew?
His reply was ''because he had balls like pineapples!'' We also enjoyed the company of Master NAV John Ford who kept us all enthralled on nightshifts with his exploits in Mosquitos! Another name from the same time was Master Pilot Ken Shardlow.
Thank you for transporting me back to a very happy time...........
My first posting out of Shawbury as an LAC AATC was RAF Machrihanish. There we had a M.Eng Willie Whitelaw, a M. ? George Robinson, a M.Eng George (“Roger roger call me roger” “Roger” ) Meridith and a M.Plt Blackie Blackwell. Blackie seemed to be the RAF equivalent of Winkle Brown. He had flown so many different aircraft during his career, including the Hornet.
I remember Ness Edwards during my time at BZZ ops and fly planning.
I remember Ness Edwards during my time at BZZ ops and fly planning.
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The finest Master aircrewman I have ever flown with was a certain MAEOp Ash Mountain. In fact he was the finest AEO I had the priviledge to fly with and was proud to have him on my crew. Those of you who may know about the multiple bird strike (gulls) at Marham on7 Dec 73 on take off. Just after we got airborne and the engine guages were fluctuating, he calmly said "AEO to captain - Please remember I have removed your pins". I have never forgotten this. He should have got a medal but, for some reason, this whole episode was hushed up. How lucky we all were that we were using Saphires!
Unlike a lot of Poles, Kas Anglicised his surname.
