Still In Service
Gentleman Aviator
The cockpits sections are original but the centre/rear fuselages were replaced (Mod 2010) and the Wings were replaced (Mod 999) so yes the cockpits are knocking on a bit 
The ETPS/Qinetiq Hawks were pre mod - ie with premod wings and fuselage (XX154 was pre pre pre mod LOL) and there are at least 2 hybrid RAF Hawks - the Av Med Flt (RAFCAM) Hawks (162 and 327) have premod fuselage but do have mod999 Wings.
We wont talk about the (write your own emergency checklist as you go along) S 76A
Be interested in your experiences of the machine, PM if necessary.
Thread Starter
Since starting this thread and identifying, via Post #4, the oldest KC I've scoured FR24 looking for elderly airframes. Last night I struck gold and found KC135 s/n 57-1440 stooging about at 12,000ft over The Wash, I know it's all in a day's routine for the crews but I find it quite remarkable that a 62 year old airframe is still out there on the front line doing it's bit. The fact this 62 year old girl is still delivering is testament to the "rightness" of the original Boeing 367-80/707 design. I wonder if we'll ever see 62 year KC 46/767's? I rather think the KC135 is the jet equivalent of the DC3 in that it will see off every contender for its replacement.
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Older Airframes.
Cheers.
The Toilet Tester.
Article and photos in The Times today.
High flyer: why the B-52 bomber will last a hundred years
High flyer: why the B-52 bomber will last a hundred years
hrough the Cold War, Vietnam, the War on Terror and into the present day, the B-52 Stratofortress strategic bomber has been America’s most dependable airborne platform for deterring a nuclear war and waging mass conventional strikes.
Now, after 65 years in service, there is every expectation that with planned new engines and avionic updates this mighty symbol of US military potency could celebrate its centenary in operational service in 2055, a unique milestone in aerospace history.
While the Pentagon waits for the first flight of the next-generation strategic bomber, the exotically shaped and stealthy B-21 Raider, due next year, the US defence department has officially decided to extend the life of the B-52 to 2050 and beyond.
An air force request to suppliers for quieter and more fuel-efficient engines, of which there are eight on each aircraft, should make it possible for the B-52 not only to reach its centenary mark but to do so with less need for mid-air refuelling. The present engines give an un-refuelled range of about 8,800 miles; the new ones could extend that to more than 12,300 miles. Rolls-Royce is among the companies competing for the contract for 608 new engines.
The B-52 may be a relic of the Cold War but it is still relied on by the Pentagon as a “big stick” to be reckoned with. It is an extraordinary aviation story. No such longevity will be granted to the bat-winged B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, which came into service in 1993 and is likely to be phased out from 2032, a mere 39 years.
The B-52 has gone through a series of refits, refurbishments and upgrades to save it from the scrapheap. The eight-engined Big Ugly Fat Fellow (Buff), as it is affectionately known, has a wing span of more than 184ft (56m) and a distinctive nose that inspired the 1960s pop culture beehive hairstyle. The cultural references expanded with the eponymous American band forming in 1976 and legend has it that the coffee-based cocktail was invented a year later.
Standing under the wings of one of the earlier versions, the B-52G, on display at the national museum of nuclear science and history in Albuquerque, New Mexico, gives an idea of what a mouse must feel when shadowed by a golden eagle or a condor.
However, it is not just its size and huge weapons payload, nuclear or conventional, that has given the B-52 its awesome reputation. It is an aircraft that is as happy flying at low altitude, down to 200ft with terrain-following radar, as it is at high altitude, at least 41,000ft.
“It’s like an old truck that was built when they actually built them tough,” General Charles Brown, US air force chief of staff, told The Wall Street Journal.
When the retired air force colonel Fran Gibbons first flew the B-52 on nuclear-deterrent operations in 1976, he already thought of it as an old aircraft; after all, it was designed in 1948 and had its maiden flight in 1952.
“I’m 68, so the B-52 is about my age — and I’m retired with seven grandchildren,” he told The Times from his home in Rockwall, Texas. As a second lieutenant he had dreams of being a fighter pilot but he was selected for bombers: the B-52. “I was a fighter pilot in a bomber’s body.”
However, it was a move he never came to regret. He carried out nuclear-deterrent patrols, always in US airspace, up to 1989 when the Cold War came to an end. “I never had to fly the B-52 towards the Soviet Union,” he said.
In the 1960s it had a round-the-clock deterrent role with a dozen B-52s on continuous airborne alert, packed with nuclear bombs, in an operation codenamed Chrome Dome. The bombers’ bellies were painted white to deflect the heat of a nuclear explosion.
Although the threat of nuclear war in the late 1970s and 1980s diminished, Mr Gibbons has not forgotten the responsibility he carried with him every time he flew. “There was always a sense of gravity, and you had to keep up with the news,” he said. “I flew three or four times a month for eight to 13 hours at a time, one week on, two weeks off. It was a large aircraft to fly but it was safe and always brought me home.”
He is proud of the B-52’s enduring service and has filled his home with pictures of the plane, and plaques commemorating special events.
He flew the B-52G, which had a crew of six, including a tail gunner. The last enemy aircraft shot down by a B-52 tail gunner was in 1972 in the Vietnam War but 17 were lost in combat. The requirement for a tail gunner ended in 1991. Today’s version, the B-52H, has a crew of five.
The bomber now has an expanded conventional role, with a 32-tonne weapons payload.
As part of Operation Desert Storm in 1991, during the Gulf War, B-52s delivered 40 per cent of all the weapons brought in for the US-led coalition air forces, underlining the effectiveness of the plane in a conventional role. It also played a prominent strike role in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.For the air force and US strategic command, the longevity, ruggedness and adaptability of the B-52 have been remarkable features of a remarkable bomber. A total of 744 B-52s with eight Pratt & Whitney engines were built by Boeing during the Cold War.
Today, 76 of the H models are in operation, frequently flying in pairs from their base in North Dakota to the Middle East and South China Sea to demonstrate to potential adversaries — Iran and China — that the B-52 should never be underestimated. They will probably continue to do so for at least another 30 years.
Now, after 65 years in service, there is every expectation that with planned new engines and avionic updates this mighty symbol of US military potency could celebrate its centenary in operational service in 2055, a unique milestone in aerospace history.
While the Pentagon waits for the first flight of the next-generation strategic bomber, the exotically shaped and stealthy B-21 Raider, due next year, the US defence department has officially decided to extend the life of the B-52 to 2050 and beyond.
An air force request to suppliers for quieter and more fuel-efficient engines, of which there are eight on each aircraft, should make it possible for the B-52 not only to reach its centenary mark but to do so with less need for mid-air refuelling. The present engines give an un-refuelled range of about 8,800 miles; the new ones could extend that to more than 12,300 miles. Rolls-Royce is among the companies competing for the contract for 608 new engines.
The B-52 may be a relic of the Cold War but it is still relied on by the Pentagon as a “big stick” to be reckoned with. It is an extraordinary aviation story. No such longevity will be granted to the bat-winged B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, which came into service in 1993 and is likely to be phased out from 2032, a mere 39 years.
The B-52 has gone through a series of refits, refurbishments and upgrades to save it from the scrapheap. The eight-engined Big Ugly Fat Fellow (Buff), as it is affectionately known, has a wing span of more than 184ft (56m) and a distinctive nose that inspired the 1960s pop culture beehive hairstyle. The cultural references expanded with the eponymous American band forming in 1976 and legend has it that the coffee-based cocktail was invented a year later.
Standing under the wings of one of the earlier versions, the B-52G, on display at the national museum of nuclear science and history in Albuquerque, New Mexico, gives an idea of what a mouse must feel when shadowed by a golden eagle or a condor.
However, it is not just its size and huge weapons payload, nuclear or conventional, that has given the B-52 its awesome reputation. It is an aircraft that is as happy flying at low altitude, down to 200ft with terrain-following radar, as it is at high altitude, at least 41,000ft.
“It’s like an old truck that was built when they actually built them tough,” General Charles Brown, US air force chief of staff, told The Wall Street Journal.
When the retired air force colonel Fran Gibbons first flew the B-52 on nuclear-deterrent operations in 1976, he already thought of it as an old aircraft; after all, it was designed in 1948 and had its maiden flight in 1952.
“I’m 68, so the B-52 is about my age — and I’m retired with seven grandchildren,” he told The Times from his home in Rockwall, Texas. As a second lieutenant he had dreams of being a fighter pilot but he was selected for bombers: the B-52. “I was a fighter pilot in a bomber’s body.”
However, it was a move he never came to regret. He carried out nuclear-deterrent patrols, always in US airspace, up to 1989 when the Cold War came to an end. “I never had to fly the B-52 towards the Soviet Union,” he said.
In the 1960s it had a round-the-clock deterrent role with a dozen B-52s on continuous airborne alert, packed with nuclear bombs, in an operation codenamed Chrome Dome. The bombers’ bellies were painted white to deflect the heat of a nuclear explosion.
Although the threat of nuclear war in the late 1970s and 1980s diminished, Mr Gibbons has not forgotten the responsibility he carried with him every time he flew. “There was always a sense of gravity, and you had to keep up with the news,” he said. “I flew three or four times a month for eight to 13 hours at a time, one week on, two weeks off. It was a large aircraft to fly but it was safe and always brought me home.”
He is proud of the B-52’s enduring service and has filled his home with pictures of the plane, and plaques commemorating special events.
He flew the B-52G, which had a crew of six, including a tail gunner. The last enemy aircraft shot down by a B-52 tail gunner was in 1972 in the Vietnam War but 17 were lost in combat. The requirement for a tail gunner ended in 1991. Today’s version, the B-52H, has a crew of five.
The bomber now has an expanded conventional role, with a 32-tonne weapons payload.
As part of Operation Desert Storm in 1991, during the Gulf War, B-52s delivered 40 per cent of all the weapons brought in for the US-led coalition air forces, underlining the effectiveness of the plane in a conventional role. It also played a prominent strike role in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.For the air force and US strategic command, the longevity, ruggedness and adaptability of the B-52 have been remarkable features of a remarkable bomber. A total of 744 B-52s with eight Pratt & Whitney engines were built by Boeing during the Cold War.
Today, 76 of the H models are in operation, frequently flying in pairs from their base in North Dakota to the Middle East and South China Sea to demonstrate to potential adversaries — Iran and China — that the B-52 should never be underestimated. They will probably continue to do so for at least another 30 years.
Congress wants to restore nukes on conventional B-52 bombers (msn.com)Congress is laying the groundwork to restore nuclear weapon capabilities on roughly 30 B-52H Stratofortress bombers that had been converted to drop only conventional munitions as part of the New START arms control treaty with Russia.
Both the Senate and House defense policy bills for fiscal 2025 would require the Air Force to once again make these conventional bombers part of the nuclear triad nearly a decade after removing those capabilities to comply with limits under the New START treaty. The current treaty is set to expire in February 2026.
Lawmakers are eager to beef up the U.S. nuclear arsenal given Russia's suspension of the treaty and China's rapidly expanding strategic warhead production. Opponents of the measure argue that the directives will make it more difficult to negotiate a new treaty while complicating efforts to significantly extend the lifespan of the B-52 bomber fleet first introduced during the Cold War.
"The treaty expires in 2026, and the prospect of Russia coming to the table for serious arms control discussions is incredibly unlikely," House Armed Services Chairman Mike Rogers, R-Ala., said last week upon introducing the amendment to the FY25 defense policy bill, legislation the House passed 217-199 on Friday. "We need to be prepared to face a nuclear environment without any treaty limitations."
The House bill would require the Air Force to begin reconverting the bombers within a month after the current treaty expires and complete the restoration of their nuclear capabilities by 2029. The House passed the B-52 amendment by voice vote over objections from Rep. Adam Smith of Washington, the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee.
"The Department of Defense is not interested in doing this," said Smith. "What they're interested in doing is investing in the B-21, which is the next generation nuclear-capable bomber. This would cost a great deal of money. Also, they're currently trying to extend the life of a number of B-52s out to 2050, which they think they can do. This would be another added expense to that."
The Senate Armed Services Committee voted 22-3 on Friday to advance its version of the bill with a similar provision directing the restoration of nuclear capabilities across the entire B-52 fleet.
The Air Force's 76 B-52s are the oldest bombers in its fleet and have been flying since the early 1960s. During the Cold War, the Air Force flew nuclear-armed Stratofortresses along the edge of Soviet airspace.
Today, it remains one of the key elements of the U.S. nuclear triad, and is capable of carrying the AGM-86B air-launched cruise missile, or ALCM, nuclear weapon.
The weapon systems officer station in the belly of a B-52H Stratofortress contains the controls to release the conventional - and in some cases, nuclear - weapons the six-decade-old bomber can carry. (Stephen Losey/Defense News)© Provided by Defense NewsNot all B-52s have that capability. The Air Force in 2015 began removing nuclear capabilities from about 30 B-52Hs to comply with New START requirements.
The Senate ratified New START in 2010. The treaty limits both countries to 1,550 deployed warheads. Although Washington and Moscow agreed to extend the treaty for five years in 2021, Russia suspended its participation in New START in 2023 amid heightened tensions with NATO over its invasion of Ukraine.
Air Force Global Strike Command declined to comment about the potential restoration of nuclear capabilities to the rest of the B-52 fleet.
Mark Gunzinger, a former B-52 pilot and director of future concepts and capability assessments at the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies, said that if it does happen, the reconversions would probably take place during depot maintenance at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma, as the B-52 fleet receives top-to-bottom upgrades.
Later this decade, the Air Force will begin a sweeping overhaul of the B-52 fleet, giving the six-decade-old bombers new engines, radar, avionics, digital cockpit displays, wheels and brakes, and other improvements.
The modernization is so significant that the service plans to redub these bombers the B-52J. The service eventually plans to have a fleet of two bombers, with the B-52J flying alongside the new B-21 Raider once the Air Force retires the B-1 Lancer and B-2 Spirit.
He said the Biden administration does not currently plan to increase the number of deployed warheads, though those decisions would be contingent on Russian and Chinese actions ahead of New START's expiration.
"The reasons for having an increase in your day-to-day deployed nuclear weapons has to be pretty compelling for a decision to be made to do that," said Vaddi. "One of the main triggers for that or the latest indicators that we have to pay attention to is what the [People's Republic of China] ends up doing."
"Those are important considerations for us to bear in mind as we march toward February 1, 2026."
The U.S. deploys some 1,770 strategic nuclear warheads while Russia deploys around 1,822, according to the Nuclear Threat Initiative. China currently has around 500 operational warheads and the Pentagon expects Beijing will reach 1,500 by 2035.
Daryl Kimball, the executive director of the Arms Control Association, argued the B-52 amendment and other measures in the defense bill could make negotiating a follow-up treaty with Russia more difficult.
Another provision in the Senate defense policy bill from Sen. Deb Fischer of Nebraska, the top Republican on the Strategic Forces panel, would require a plan to develop an additional 50 Sentinel Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles on top of 400 ICBMs already deployed.
Gunzinger said that with Russia no longer adhering to the New START treaty, it makes sense to bolster the B-52 fleet's nuclear capabilities given the potential threats the United States could face from China and Russia, as well as Iran and North Korea.
"We're now facing a situation where there's two nuclear peers," Gunzinger told Defense News. "We have a nuclear triad that's sized for a single nuclear peer, Russia."
Gunzinger said the restoration could probably be done without much difficulty. The necessary wiring is probably still in place, he said, and physical components that had been removed could be re-installed.
"It's doable, and that's the beauty of maintaining bombers that can be re-equipped with the appropriate [nuclear weapons] components," he said. "It's a hedge against future uncertainty, and we are now in a future where it's not one that we expected, even just a few short years ago."
Both the Senate and House defense policy bills for fiscal 2025 would require the Air Force to once again make these conventional bombers part of the nuclear triad nearly a decade after removing those capabilities to comply with limits under the New START treaty. The current treaty is set to expire in February 2026.
Lawmakers are eager to beef up the U.S. nuclear arsenal given Russia's suspension of the treaty and China's rapidly expanding strategic warhead production. Opponents of the measure argue that the directives will make it more difficult to negotiate a new treaty while complicating efforts to significantly extend the lifespan of the B-52 bomber fleet first introduced during the Cold War.
"The treaty expires in 2026, and the prospect of Russia coming to the table for serious arms control discussions is incredibly unlikely," House Armed Services Chairman Mike Rogers, R-Ala., said last week upon introducing the amendment to the FY25 defense policy bill, legislation the House passed 217-199 on Friday. "We need to be prepared to face a nuclear environment without any treaty limitations."
The House bill would require the Air Force to begin reconverting the bombers within a month after the current treaty expires and complete the restoration of their nuclear capabilities by 2029. The House passed the B-52 amendment by voice vote over objections from Rep. Adam Smith of Washington, the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee.
"The Department of Defense is not interested in doing this," said Smith. "What they're interested in doing is investing in the B-21, which is the next generation nuclear-capable bomber. This would cost a great deal of money. Also, they're currently trying to extend the life of a number of B-52s out to 2050, which they think they can do. This would be another added expense to that."
The Senate Armed Services Committee voted 22-3 on Friday to advance its version of the bill with a similar provision directing the restoration of nuclear capabilities across the entire B-52 fleet.
The Air Force's 76 B-52s are the oldest bombers in its fleet and have been flying since the early 1960s. During the Cold War, the Air Force flew nuclear-armed Stratofortresses along the edge of Soviet airspace.
Today, it remains one of the key elements of the U.S. nuclear triad, and is capable of carrying the AGM-86B air-launched cruise missile, or ALCM, nuclear weapon.
The weapon systems officer station in the belly of a B-52H Stratofortress contains the controls to release the conventional - and in some cases, nuclear - weapons the six-decade-old bomber can carry. (Stephen Losey/Defense News)© Provided by Defense NewsNot all B-52s have that capability. The Air Force in 2015 began removing nuclear capabilities from about 30 B-52Hs to comply with New START requirements.
The Senate ratified New START in 2010. The treaty limits both countries to 1,550 deployed warheads. Although Washington and Moscow agreed to extend the treaty for five years in 2021, Russia suspended its participation in New START in 2023 amid heightened tensions with NATO over its invasion of Ukraine.
Air Force Global Strike Command declined to comment about the potential restoration of nuclear capabilities to the rest of the B-52 fleet.
Mark Gunzinger, a former B-52 pilot and director of future concepts and capability assessments at the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies, said that if it does happen, the reconversions would probably take place during depot maintenance at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma, as the B-52 fleet receives top-to-bottom upgrades.
Later this decade, the Air Force will begin a sweeping overhaul of the B-52 fleet, giving the six-decade-old bombers new engines, radar, avionics, digital cockpit displays, wheels and brakes, and other improvements.
The modernization is so significant that the service plans to redub these bombers the B-52J. The service eventually plans to have a fleet of two bombers, with the B-52J flying alongside the new B-21 Raider once the Air Force retires the B-1 Lancer and B-2 Spirit.
Deployed warheads
President Joe Biden's arms control adviser Pranay Vaddi told the annual Arms Control Association conference in Washington this month that the U.S. has reached out to Russia about negotiating a follow-on agreement to New START but that Moscow has been unwilling to engage.He said the Biden administration does not currently plan to increase the number of deployed warheads, though those decisions would be contingent on Russian and Chinese actions ahead of New START's expiration.
"The reasons for having an increase in your day-to-day deployed nuclear weapons has to be pretty compelling for a decision to be made to do that," said Vaddi. "One of the main triggers for that or the latest indicators that we have to pay attention to is what the [People's Republic of China] ends up doing."
"Those are important considerations for us to bear in mind as we march toward February 1, 2026."
The U.S. deploys some 1,770 strategic nuclear warheads while Russia deploys around 1,822, according to the Nuclear Threat Initiative. China currently has around 500 operational warheads and the Pentagon expects Beijing will reach 1,500 by 2035.
Daryl Kimball, the executive director of the Arms Control Association, argued the B-52 amendment and other measures in the defense bill could make negotiating a follow-up treaty with Russia more difficult.
‘Cost prohibitive'
"This provision as well as some other provisions that are in the bills that purpose steps to increase the number of deployed strategic nuclear weapons are extremely premature, counterproductive and – given the skyrocketing cost of the existing nuclear weapons modernization program – they're cost prohibitive," Kimball told Defense News. "Some members of Congress unnecessarily panic and are looking for ways to increase the US stockpile without a clear national security rationale."Another provision in the Senate defense policy bill from Sen. Deb Fischer of Nebraska, the top Republican on the Strategic Forces panel, would require a plan to develop an additional 50 Sentinel Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles on top of 400 ICBMs already deployed.
Gunzinger said that with Russia no longer adhering to the New START treaty, it makes sense to bolster the B-52 fleet's nuclear capabilities given the potential threats the United States could face from China and Russia, as well as Iran and North Korea.
"We're now facing a situation where there's two nuclear peers," Gunzinger told Defense News. "We have a nuclear triad that's sized for a single nuclear peer, Russia."
Gunzinger said the restoration could probably be done without much difficulty. The necessary wiring is probably still in place, he said, and physical components that had been removed could be re-installed.
"It's doable, and that's the beauty of maintaining bombers that can be re-equipped with the appropriate [nuclear weapons] components," he said. "It's a hedge against future uncertainty, and we are now in a future where it's not one that we expected, even just a few short years ago."
