The F-35 thread, Mk II
Also in fairness, that $53m wasn't a 2020 then year TY cost. It would have been the early base year cost. In SAR 2010 there was a BY at 2002 dollar value. There was also an earlier base year to this.
F-35-SAR-25_DEC_2010.pdf (whs.mil)
Some think, it's always fun to mix apples and oranges. Some even made a living from it.
F-35-SAR-25_DEC_2010.pdf (whs.mil)
Some think, it's always fun to mix apples and oranges. Some even made a living from it.
Last edited by golder; 29th Jun 2024 at 13:44.
In all fairness all governments do this all the time. Calculate most optimistic figures for things they really want to do/buy (and pessimistic figures for things they don't want). Nothing new here.
In 2008 all Gen 4+ models were realistically in the ballpark of 80 - 90Mio $. No chance in hell the most sophisticated one of the lot would only be 60% the cost of the others. It is a way to justify things where you can't/don't want to really give the real reasons to the public (Stealth Fighter bombers were somewhat problematic in historically peace- minded societies like many in Western/Northern Europe - at least before 2022).
In 2008 all Gen 4+ models were realistically in the ballpark of 80 - 90Mio $. No chance in hell the most sophisticated one of the lot would only be 60% the cost of the others. It is a way to justify things where you can't/don't want to really give the real reasons to the public (Stealth Fighter bombers were somewhat problematic in historically peace- minded societies like many in Western/Northern Europe - at least before 2022).
There was a carrot as well as a stick: Norway's NSM/JSM missile family has been acquired by the US, including the JSM for the USAF's F-35As. It's a good missile, but that's a unique feat for a foreign weapon in recent years.
Who knew there is politics in procurement?
From the LO link. "TENSION IN THE COALITION?
The choice of the American plane could cause tensions within the Labour-led tripartite coalition government with less than a year to go to a general election as the Socialist Left (SV) party, a junior partner, had supported the Swedish jet."
As per the 2010 SAR, In 2009 the US average procurement cost per unit, APUC of a single F-35 was $79m. The 2004 APUC was $61m. So even in 2004 this would be impossible. The $53m could not possible be for total programme procurement, or total package cost for Norway. The 2010 US PAUC was $110m each in 2002 BY$. Let the silly games continue.
From the LO link. "TENSION IN THE COALITION?
The choice of the American plane could cause tensions within the Labour-led tripartite coalition government with less than a year to go to a general election as the Socialist Left (SV) party, a junior partner, had supported the Swedish jet."
As per the 2010 SAR, In 2009 the US average procurement cost per unit, APUC of a single F-35 was $79m. The 2004 APUC was $61m. So even in 2004 this would be impossible. The $53m could not possible be for total programme procurement, or total package cost for Norway. The 2010 US PAUC was $110m each in 2002 BY$. Let the silly games continue.
Last edited by golder; 30th Jun 2024 at 00:11.
And one of those merits is that it's AMERICAN................... 
Another country that doesn't listen to questionable people.
Greece Approves Purchase Of F-35A Jets And Participation In Constellation Frigate Program (greekcitytimes.com)
Greece Approves Purchase Of F-35A Jets And Participation In Constellation Frigate Program (greekcitytimes.com)
Greece Approves Purchase of F-35A Jets and Participation in Constellation Frigate Program.
Last edited by golder; 1st Jul 2024 at 12:36.
It's not the critic who counts ...
As regards the Greek F-35A: I wonder if those Greek aircraft purchases aren't getting a bit of a 'loan guarantee' from somewhere on this side of the pond.
As regards the Greek F-35A: I wonder if those Greek aircraft purchases aren't getting a bit of a 'loan guarantee' from somewhere on this side of the pond.
Since the Greeks are also looking at buying the Constellation, an expensive and already horribly late U.S. version of the proven FREMM (already in use by four Mediterranean navies), I'd say that some government-to-government inducements may have been involved.
For a slight bit of Off Topic drift, the fact that Huntington Ingalls did not win the bid is concerning, but their "unspecified" manpower figure is an interesting data point. Also, falling in on a mature design should have made for a more rapid IOC. But it didn't, in the end.
Another place where LCS hosed our defense industrial base; building actual frigates rather than those pieces of 
would have required more shipbuilding facilities to remain open at the level needed ... yadda yadda, it's been over a decade since I joined the letter writing campaign against LCS... yes, still bitter. 
On Topic: looks like Constellation will be able to land a helicopter but not an F-35B.
On 2 April 2024, USNI News reported that the Constellation class frigates were delayed by three years, due to issues concerning shipyard backlogs and a lack of skilled workers.
would have required more shipbuilding facilities to remain open at the level needed ... yadda yadda, it's been over a decade since I joined the letter writing campaign against LCS... yes, still bitter. On Topic: looks like Constellation will be able to land a helicopter but not an F-35B.
