To CFS or not?
BEagle.
Your last but one post seems to say, somewhat obscurely, that the apellation QFI should only apply to someone who teaches basic stick and rudder. So, accepting that BFJTS QFIs still fulfill that role, anything beyond that is not taught by a QFI.
So, all Valley, Cranwell, OCU and Sqn QFIs don't qualify for the qfi symbol?
Your point about teaching studes who have not undergone apptitude training will not be lost on UAS QFIs in days gone past; hudreds have done it.
And, I too have been "a senior CFS QFI"
Your last but one post seems to say, somewhat obscurely, that the apellation QFI should only apply to someone who teaches basic stick and rudder. So, accepting that BFJTS QFIs still fulfill that role, anything beyond that is not taught by a QFI.
So, all Valley, Cranwell, OCU and Sqn QFIs don't qualify for the qfi symbol?
Your point about teaching studes who have not undergone apptitude training will not be lost on UAS QFIs in days gone past; hudreds have done it.
And, I too have been "a senior CFS QFI"
QFIs - graduates of CFS who teach and examine pure flying. "SHT, LAI, WIGYC" and other incantations are their mantra.
QWIs - graduates of QWI courses who teach and assess weaponeering......and spend endless hours in the cine room trying to prove that you were out of range...'ride up, early pickle' and other strange phraseology are frequently uttered whilst the projector is set to 1 frame per week clack-clack-clack mode.
TIs - help out with additional tactical work. They hold no formal 'qualification', except relevant front line experience. Many will become QWIs when they've earned appropriate recommendation. Until then it's "I've told you how to do it, I've shown you how to do it, I can do it - why can't you" and "Kick the tyres, brief on Guard. Move the shineys, leave the rusties, light the fires. Last one off's a poof" and other 'well 'ard' pseudo instruction......whilst they have a huge hoot enjoying themselves and giving encouragement of the 'see - anyone can do it' kind to the students! Who in turn think that they're great mates as they don't beast them to death with GH or Cine duals....
That's what used to happen. His verbis dictis autem, O audax (said he in the vocative), tell me why things needed to change?
QWIs - graduates of QWI courses who teach and assess weaponeering......and spend endless hours in the cine room trying to prove that you were out of range...'ride up, early pickle' and other strange phraseology are frequently uttered whilst the projector is set to 1 frame per week clack-clack-clack mode.
TIs - help out with additional tactical work. They hold no formal 'qualification', except relevant front line experience. Many will become QWIs when they've earned appropriate recommendation. Until then it's "I've told you how to do it, I've shown you how to do it, I can do it - why can't you" and "Kick the tyres, brief on Guard. Move the shineys, leave the rusties, light the fires. Last one off's a poof" and other 'well 'ard' pseudo instruction......whilst they have a huge hoot enjoying themselves and giving encouragement of the 'see - anyone can do it' kind to the students! Who in turn think that they're great mates as they don't beast them to death with GH or Cine duals....
That's what used to happen. His verbis dictis autem, O audax (said he in the vocative), tell me why things needed to change?
Last edited by BEagle; 26th Jul 2002 at 20:47.
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Ah, the BEagle has landed, one small step etc etc.
Bit like Dr Who really, hurtles over the horizon on the magic soapbox and then takes on all the nasties, in this case the TIs and QWIs after having had a go at the QFIs. Why try to demean the role of theses guys, did you suffer at their hands during your flirtation with fast jets?
Bit like Dr Who really, hurtles over the horizon on the magic soapbox and then takes on all the nasties, in this case the TIs and QWIs after having had a go at the QFIs. Why try to demean the role of theses guys, did you suffer at their hands during your flirtation with fast jets?
Not at all, mate. The staff at the time I went through TWU were really good guys. But the QFIs did the QFI-ing, the QWIs did the QWI-ing and the TIs did the rest. No-one pretended they were a 'Q' anything unless they were!
Some refused to be termed 'QWI' - prefering instead their original titles such as PAI, IWI etc.
And if we got a hard time, it was only when we needed it! From which we all gained plenty.
But for a real bunch of big-headed bigots who frankly hated their students, you had to look no further than a certain bomber OCU near Bury St Edmunds in the mid 70s.................
Some refused to be termed 'QWI' - prefering instead their original titles such as PAI, IWI etc.
And if we got a hard time, it was only when we needed it! From which we all gained plenty.
But for a real bunch of big-headed bigots who frankly hated their students, you had to look no further than a certain bomber OCU near Bury St Edmunds in the mid 70s.................
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BEagle
Was "Fangs" the staish at your bomber OCU near Bury? Was he your nemesis? If so, my entire sympathy. He screwed many a good lad! He was my boss in a staff job and luckily my face fitted - pure luck. He used to make his mind up in a few minutes' initial interview; and if you did not impress you were irretrievably in the dwang.
Was "Fangs" the staish at your bomber OCU near Bury? Was he your nemesis? If so, my entire sympathy. He screwed many a good lad! He was my boss in a staff job and luckily my face fitted - pure luck. He used to make his mind up in a few minutes' initial interview; and if you did not impress you were irretrievably in the dwang.
Initials were JN. At our course arrival chat he stomped into the building in an immersion suit and scowled at us. "Most of you won't pass this course" were his first few words........
Rumour hath it that, not many years later (in fact only a few more than 9 after a bomber det. to Red Flag), an American woman turned up at his quarter. "I think this is yours" she said - indicating the squealing brat she had in tow.
Never heard what happened to the nasty bug.ger after that!
Rumour hath it that, not many years later (in fact only a few more than 9 after a bomber det. to Red Flag), an American woman turned up at his quarter. "I think this is yours" she said - indicating the squealing brat she had in tow.
Never heard what happened to the nasty bug.ger after that!
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But BEagle, you still haven't explained why you feel the need to knock other aircrew and their roles: no one else on these threads acts like this. Heaven knows we've all suffered over the years from being messed around by the truckie system but no one feels the need to carp on about it.
As for QWIs & TIs, I suspect I've spent a lot more time at the TWUs than youself and people always used the title of their qualification and generally were proud to do so. There are of course other TIs in the system than just the TWU instructors, have you seen that some of these are more than happy to wear a badge proclaiming their qualification?
As for QWIs & TIs, I suspect I've spent a lot more time at the TWUs than youself and people always used the title of their qualification and generally were proud to do so. There are of course other TIs in the system than just the TWU instructors, have you seen that some of these are more than happy to wear a badge proclaiming their qualification?
Not knocking any other aircrew, chum. Some teasing banter now and again, perhaps.... But nothing directly derogatory aimed at brother aircrew - if anything was perceived as such, then sorry - not intended. Unless you're one of those ex-bomber OCU ba$tards about whom I wrote!
Oops, sorry. Should have said brother/sister aircrew. As well as those who aren't sure - or don't care.....
Oops, sorry. Should have said brother/sister aircrew. As well as those who aren't sure - or don't care.....
Last edited by BEagle; 28th Jul 2002 at 12:42.
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Being Rear seat qual (P Con) on the Fin and doing 3 weeks CFS groundschool followed by 3 check rides gets you B2 QFI now. Being a QWI + the above makes you an automatic B1 !!
TS - why has this come about? Surely there must be sufficient CFS graduates in your fleet to meet OCU requirements?
Other fleets have 'FIs'- those who have been appointed to flying instructional duties without having been to CFS. This is only done if there aren't enough ex-something else QFIs to fill the post - so why not just refer to your Tornado instructors as FIs?
As for 'autonatic B1'.........
Incidentally, nothing to do with this but beware of describing yourself as something you are not. Some years ago a pilot was an ex-QFI and had also been graded as Above the Average in his ACR. He therefore elected to describe himself to the CAA as an A2 QFI. They checked - and found the truth. He was then reminded about the small print and the fact that he could face a large fine and even imprisonment......fortunately for him as he was still in the mob a thermonuclear bollocking was all he received!
Other fleets have 'FIs'- those who have been appointed to flying instructional duties without having been to CFS. This is only done if there aren't enough ex-something else QFIs to fill the post - so why not just refer to your Tornado instructors as FIs?
As for 'autonatic B1'.........
Incidentally, nothing to do with this but beware of describing yourself as something you are not. Some years ago a pilot was an ex-QFI and had also been graded as Above the Average in his ACR. He therefore elected to describe himself to the CAA as an A2 QFI. They checked - and found the truth. He was then reminded about the small print and the fact that he could face a large fine and even imprisonment......fortunately for him as he was still in the mob a thermonuclear bollocking was all he received!
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B Eagle
Sadly we are short of QFIs, very few FJ pilots are returning from valley, it seems to be a gateway to the outside world.
As for your second point, I certainly have never claimed to be a QFI, but am a QWI.
Sadly we are short of QFIs, very few FJ pilots are returning from valley, it seems to be a gateway to the outside world.
As for your second point, I certainly have never claimed to be a QFI, but am a QWI.
Low Key
Like FJJP says, give us more info then we may, perhaps, DAB lager allowing, offer some pertinent advice rather than the all encompassing bo77acks that is often read!
It's common knowledge that changing roles damages your chances (regardless of experience etc). Kept my head down during my last 2 tours but witnessed such in-breeding and crass promotions (colleagues will know which ones I mean!) that a move was not soon enough as I find it difficult to take such superiors seriously!
Unfortunately, with all the PFI'ing and 'out-sourcing', the choice is rather restricted.
In that light, CFS was a damn fine choice and am really looking forward to it.........especially if British Wast-a-space get the training PFI and need tandem-seat-turbo-prop instructors!!!
Like FJJP says, give us more info then we may, perhaps, DAB lager allowing, offer some pertinent advice rather than the all encompassing bo77acks that is often read!
It's common knowledge that changing roles damages your chances (regardless of experience etc). Kept my head down during my last 2 tours but witnessed such in-breeding and crass promotions (colleagues will know which ones I mean!) that a move was not soon enough as I find it difficult to take such superiors seriously!
Unfortunately, with all the PFI'ing and 'out-sourcing', the choice is rather restricted.
In that light, CFS was a damn fine choice and am really looking forward to it.........especially if British Wast-a-space get the training PFI and need tandem-seat-turbo-prop instructors!!!
