European Army
Ninthace,
Perhaps - but in terms of Europe there can be cooperation as to who has to do what - as I think the Germans are suggesting. I refer you back to the comment in a previous article ai posted..
As an example, there is concern over our lack of MBT, whilst Poland and others are buying over 1000s, and other armaments needed for a conventional European war.
There could be a quid pro quo where we concentrate on expeditionary air and naval forces, including providing a European nuclear deterrent.
To be frank, the few new MBT/Ajax and other armoured forces we are looking at purchasing are so small they’re irrelevant except in terms of a tripwire capability where we deploy them forward in Estonia etc - and lighter expeditionary units would serve the same purpose.
The days of BAOR, ot that we could deploy an armoured division as in Granby and Telic, are gone forever.
Perhaps - but in terms of Europe there can be cooperation as to who has to do what - as I think the Germans are suggesting. I refer you back to the comment in a previous article ai posted..
As an example, there is concern over our lack of MBT, whilst Poland and others are buying over 1000s, and other armaments needed for a conventional European war.
There could be a quid pro quo where we concentrate on expeditionary air and naval forces, including providing a European nuclear deterrent.
To be frank, the few new MBT/Ajax and other armoured forces we are looking at purchasing are so small they’re irrelevant except in terms of a tripwire capability where we deploy them forward in Estonia etc - and lighter expeditionary units would serve the same purpose.
The days of BAOR, ot that we could deploy an armoured division as in Granby and Telic, are gone forever.
What always seems to be overlooked in the debate is the simple fact that while Major Bufton-Tufton (rtd) continues to demand a British Army more akin to the days of BAOR, the boxheads are at 60000 soldiers. Broadly 20% less than the current planned British Army.
As the traditional maritime power in Europe, that's where we should be concentrating (and combat air) - as you suggest.
As the traditional maritime power in Europe, that's where we should be concentrating (and combat air) - as you suggest.
Ninthace,
Perhaps - but in terms of Europe there can be cooperation as to who has to do what - as I think the Germans are suggesting. I refer you back to the comment in a previous article ai posted..
As an example, there is concern over our lack of MBT, whilst Poland and others are buying over 1000s, and other armaments needed for a conventional European war.
There could be a quid pro quo where we concentrate on expeditionary air and naval forces, including providing a European nuclear deterrent.
To be frank, the few new MBT/Ajax and other armoured forces we are looking at purchasing are so small they’re irrelevant except in terms of a tripwire capability where we deploy them forward in Estonia etc - and lighter expeditionary units would serve the same purpose.
The days of BAOR, ot that we could deploy an armoured division as in Granby and Telic, are gone forever.
Perhaps - but in terms of Europe there can be cooperation as to who has to do what - as I think the Germans are suggesting. I refer you back to the comment in a previous article ai posted..
As an example, there is concern over our lack of MBT, whilst Poland and others are buying over 1000s, and other armaments needed for a conventional European war.
There could be a quid pro quo where we concentrate on expeditionary air and naval forces, including providing a European nuclear deterrent.
To be frank, the few new MBT/Ajax and other armoured forces we are looking at purchasing are so small they’re irrelevant except in terms of a tripwire capability where we deploy them forward in Estonia etc - and lighter expeditionary units would serve the same purpose.
The days of BAOR, ot that we could deploy an armoured division as in Granby and Telic, are gone forever.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
The original planned order was for over a thousand….
It was planned as the replacement for the CVR(T), of which the army purchased over 1800.
Its raison d’tre was recce in support of armoured forces - which no longer exist…
As for Boxer, that’s the Warrior replacement - and not enough of those either…
https://uklandpower.com/2023/09/05/c...ior-as-an-ifv/
It was planned as the replacement for the CVR(T), of which the army purchased over 1800.
Its raison d’tre was recce in support of armoured forces - which no longer exist…
As for Boxer, that’s the Warrior replacement - and not enough of those either…
https://uklandpower.com/2023/09/05/c...ior-as-an-ifv/
Last edited by ORAC; 26th Jan 2024 at 13:22.
Thirty years ago the great Independent European Security Identity initiative was all the rage.
The 'United States of Europe' was being sold as a counter balance to American power.
At that point, the 800 pound gorilla in Asia had not yet climbed atop the world economic ladder, although that was a work in progress.
What actually happened was that, in Europe, butter was chosen, and guns cut up for scrap.
Granted, in the 00's numerous allies were in Task in Iraq and Afghanistan, which experiences may have had, in the long term, negative impacts on defense spending's popularity. Not sure, I am guessing a bit on that last thought.
The 'United States of Europe' was being sold as a counter balance to American power.
At that point, the 800 pound gorilla in Asia had not yet climbed atop the world economic ladder, although that was a work in progress.
What actually happened was that, in Europe, butter was chosen, and guns cut up for scrap.
Granted, in the 00's numerous allies were in Task in Iraq and Afghanistan, which experiences may have had, in the long term, negative impacts on defense spending's popularity. Not sure, I am guessing a bit on that last thought.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Moldova became the first country to sign security agreement with EU - Borrell
"This partnership will enhance the country's resilience," said Josep Borrell.
https://www.politico.eu/article/mold...isinformation/
Moldova signs security and defense pact with EU
"This partnership will enhance the country's resilience," said Josep Borrell.
https://www.politico.eu/article/mold...isinformation/
Moldova signs security and defense pact with EU
Moldova became the first country to sign security agreement with EU - Borrell
"This partnership will enhance the country's resilience," said Josep Borrell.
https://www.politico.eu/article/mold...isinformation/
Moldova signs security and defense pact with EU
"This partnership will enhance the country's resilience," said Josep Borrell.
https://www.politico.eu/article/mold...isinformation/
Moldova signs security and defense pact with EU
Would anyone come to anyone's aid? In a recent survey from Austria; -
“If Austria were to be attacked militarily, should other EU member states support Austria militarily?”
72.28% said yes.
“Should Austria, in the case of an armed attack on an EU member state, support this state with armed troops?”
13.58% said yes.
Thoughts?
“If Austria were to be attacked militarily, should other EU member states support Austria militarily?”
72.28% said yes.
“Should Austria, in the case of an armed attack on an EU member state, support this state with armed troops?”
13.58% said yes.
Thoughts?
Thirty years ago the great Independent European Security Identity initiative was all the rage.
The 'United States of Europe' was being sold as a counter balance to American power.
At that point, the 800 pound gorilla in Asia had not yet climbed atop the world economic ladder, although that was a work in progress.
What actually happened was that, in Europe, butter was chosen, and guns cut up for scrap.
Granted, in the 00's numerous allies were in Task in Iraq and Afghanistan, which experiences may have had, in the long term, negative impacts on defense spending's popularity. Not sure, I am guessing a bit on that last thought.
The 'United States of Europe' was being sold as a counter balance to American power.
At that point, the 800 pound gorilla in Asia had not yet climbed atop the world economic ladder, although that was a work in progress.
What actually happened was that, in Europe, butter was chosen, and guns cut up for scrap.
Granted, in the 00's numerous allies were in Task in Iraq and Afghanistan, which experiences may have had, in the long term, negative impacts on defense spending's popularity. Not sure, I am guessing a bit on that last thought.
Everyone should have known what was coming from the moment that nice Mr Putin pulled his little docee-doh with Medvedev round about 2008. Trouble was, no-one wanted to believe it, because it meant making difficult choices - choices which would have had to have been faced sooner or later through sheer sustainability - but could be ignored for a bit longer. Its not that defence spending was unpopular per se, it was that it meant accepting other less palatable truths. Nowhere more so than Mutti's euro paradise.
Would anyone come to anyone's aid? In a recent survey from Austria; -
“If Austria were to be attacked militarily, should other EU member states support Austria militarily?”
72.28% said yes.
“Should Austria, in the case of an armed attack on an EU member state, support this state with armed troops?”
13.58% said yes.
Thoughts?
“If Austria were to be attacked militarily, should other EU member states support Austria militarily?”
72.28% said yes.
“Should Austria, in the case of an armed attack on an EU member state, support this state with armed troops?”
13.58% said yes.
Thoughts?
NATO's own research on public attitudes presents a more positive attitude to intervention in support if other members were attacked. (Margin of error +/- 3%), mind you the decline since 2022 is disturbing/interesting.
source: NATO Annual Tracking Research 2023 (most recent published)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
https://kyivindependent.com/poland-b...r-with-russia/
Poland, Baltic states call on EU to build defense line along border with Russia, Belarus
Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania called on the European Union to build a line of defense along the bloc's border with Russia and Belarus to protect the EU from military threats and other harmful actions from Moscow.
The leaders of the four countries, which each share a border with either Russia or Belarus, drafted a letter to the EU President detailing the scale and cost of the project. EU countries would be required to commit political and financial support.
"The creation of a system of defense infrastructure along the external border of the EU with Russia and Belarus will meet the acute and urgent need to protect the EU from military and hybrid threats," the letter reads…..
The letter also suggests that the defense line could be constructed in coordination with NATO and its military requirements.
Some EU officials estimate the cost of building this defense line along the EU's 700-kilometer border with Russia and Belarus to be around 2.5 billion euros ($2.67 billion)…..
Poland, Baltic states call on EU to build defense line along border with Russia, Belarus
Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania called on the European Union to build a line of defense along the bloc's border with Russia and Belarus to protect the EU from military threats and other harmful actions from Moscow.
The leaders of the four countries, which each share a border with either Russia or Belarus, drafted a letter to the EU President detailing the scale and cost of the project. EU countries would be required to commit political and financial support.
"The creation of a system of defense infrastructure along the external border of the EU with Russia and Belarus will meet the acute and urgent need to protect the EU from military and hybrid threats," the letter reads…..
The letter also suggests that the defense line could be constructed in coordination with NATO and its military requirements.
Some EU officials estimate the cost of building this defense line along the EU's 700-kilometer border with Russia and Belarus to be around 2.5 billion euros ($2.67 billion)…..
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