WEBF has been stitched up???
Thread Starter
WEBF has been stitched up???
A few weeks ago, just over two weeks ago, the 27th of May to be exact, I went a signed on the dotted line etc to join the Royal Navy. For those of you that haven't read many of my postings, I will make the following points about my background.
I have been interested in a career in the RN (as a Weapon Engineer Officer) since just before I was 14. After my GCSEs I did a BTEC National Diploma in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. Around this time I was advised that for Officer entry (into the Engineering branches) I would need to obtain a degree off my own back. This I did. In April 1999 I was advised by my then Liason Officer that I did not need to spend an extra few months to top it up to an Honours degree. In January 2000 my new Liason Officer told me that I DID need an Honours degree for commisioned entry into the WE Branch. So from September 2000 to January 2001 I did this, as this was what the Navy required.
In March 2001 I did the AIB, and failed miserably. I was advised to try joining as an Artificer. It was indicated that my qualifications would get me fast tracked through the training, and promoted extra fast. This would give me the leadership development etc I need. But when I turned up at the AFCO for the interview, I was told the doctor had examined my Optician's report and decided my eyesight was too bad for the RN. So I had to write and appeal. I then had to go to an eye consultant to get the all clear. Finally I was accepted and given an entry date: 27 May 2002.
The place where I was from February to May refused to let me have any time off until ONE WEEK from my entry date. So I had little time to prepare. My fitness programme suffered massively, and I had little time to practice and perfect the dull but important art of ironing and folding clothes.
So when I finally joined I struggled a bit. Part of it was adjusting to a new environment, and to a certain extent, a degree of homesickness. Anyway, the academics would NOT be a problem for me, neither would the naval general knowledge aspects. I did have some difficulties with some areas of the PT, particularly the shuttle run. But I was making progress. I also had some problems with drill, although from what I saw, so did everyone else. But the real problem was kit, particulary ironing, folding and stowing it correctly.
I was actually making progress in all three areas. But on Friday, I was given a warning by my Divisional Officer about physical fitness, and also kit. On Saturday I had an informal "instructional" kit muster. I should have been given a list of what was wrong and given advice, as everyone else did. But I was simply told it was sh!t and told to redo it on Monday morning. I did. Once again there was no feedback. On Tuesday evening I was given another DO's warning, restating the first one and criticising my "attitude". A few minutes later, I was given a warning by the senior DO. Amongst the points he made, he stated that I had failed all the fitness tests (not true), that my kit had not improved (it had) and that my drill had not improved (it had). Having two warnings only a few minutes apart seems to make a mockery of the warnings system, which is meant to help you. The following morning I was on my way out, and was formally discharged today.
Now lets consider....
1. I am no idiot. With my qualifications I KNOW that I could do the job, and there would be no danger of me failing the academic side of things.
2. OK, so I struggled with some of the physical side, but so did lots of other people. That's the whole point of training.
3. As I said my kit and standard of dress/smartness had improved massively by the end of week two, and was continuing to get better.
4. I told my Instructors that I was struggling with the kit, and asked for help/advice/being shown how to do it. However help was not forthcoming.
5. Again my drill was getting better. Judging by the parade exam this week, I wasn't the only one who had problems with drill.
6. The fact that I went through all the cr@p I went through to get into the RN at all shows that I had drive and commitment.
7. I'm not sure why, but the instructors gave me a harder time that anyone else. That is not just my opinion, several others pointed it out to me, including a couple of people who had spent time in the forces.
8. The amount of time I had spent getting into the RN shows that I have drive and commitment.
9. Artificers train up to HND level, I have an HND and A BSc (Hons). So I could certainly do the job.
But being able to do the job, understanding what the RN is for and what it does, abouts its ships, aircraft and weapons, and understanding many of the political and international issues affecting the RN at the moment seems to count for nothing.
I admit my kit muster was bad, but others in the squadron did even worse. But they're not getting kicked out. Ever since day one I was given extra sh!t. I got picked up on minor points that other people got away with, and got beasted more than the rest of the class.
I don't know why, but I think that someone was out to get me, and to make me fail. I don't think two weeks of bullsh!t is particularly appropriate for assessing someone's ability to do a technical job.
So nearly twelve years of effort have come to a grinding halt. I don't know if and when I could reapply, if I wanted to. Also the Reserves were mentioned. But however you try to look on the bright side, this is a disaster for me that was needless.
Advice anyone???
I have been interested in a career in the RN (as a Weapon Engineer Officer) since just before I was 14. After my GCSEs I did a BTEC National Diploma in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. Around this time I was advised that for Officer entry (into the Engineering branches) I would need to obtain a degree off my own back. This I did. In April 1999 I was advised by my then Liason Officer that I did not need to spend an extra few months to top it up to an Honours degree. In January 2000 my new Liason Officer told me that I DID need an Honours degree for commisioned entry into the WE Branch. So from September 2000 to January 2001 I did this, as this was what the Navy required.
In March 2001 I did the AIB, and failed miserably. I was advised to try joining as an Artificer. It was indicated that my qualifications would get me fast tracked through the training, and promoted extra fast. This would give me the leadership development etc I need. But when I turned up at the AFCO for the interview, I was told the doctor had examined my Optician's report and decided my eyesight was too bad for the RN. So I had to write and appeal. I then had to go to an eye consultant to get the all clear. Finally I was accepted and given an entry date: 27 May 2002.
The place where I was from February to May refused to let me have any time off until ONE WEEK from my entry date. So I had little time to prepare. My fitness programme suffered massively, and I had little time to practice and perfect the dull but important art of ironing and folding clothes.
So when I finally joined I struggled a bit. Part of it was adjusting to a new environment, and to a certain extent, a degree of homesickness. Anyway, the academics would NOT be a problem for me, neither would the naval general knowledge aspects. I did have some difficulties with some areas of the PT, particularly the shuttle run. But I was making progress. I also had some problems with drill, although from what I saw, so did everyone else. But the real problem was kit, particulary ironing, folding and stowing it correctly.
I was actually making progress in all three areas. But on Friday, I was given a warning by my Divisional Officer about physical fitness, and also kit. On Saturday I had an informal "instructional" kit muster. I should have been given a list of what was wrong and given advice, as everyone else did. But I was simply told it was sh!t and told to redo it on Monday morning. I did. Once again there was no feedback. On Tuesday evening I was given another DO's warning, restating the first one and criticising my "attitude". A few minutes later, I was given a warning by the senior DO. Amongst the points he made, he stated that I had failed all the fitness tests (not true), that my kit had not improved (it had) and that my drill had not improved (it had). Having two warnings only a few minutes apart seems to make a mockery of the warnings system, which is meant to help you. The following morning I was on my way out, and was formally discharged today.
Now lets consider....
1. I am no idiot. With my qualifications I KNOW that I could do the job, and there would be no danger of me failing the academic side of things.
2. OK, so I struggled with some of the physical side, but so did lots of other people. That's the whole point of training.
3. As I said my kit and standard of dress/smartness had improved massively by the end of week two, and was continuing to get better.
4. I told my Instructors that I was struggling with the kit, and asked for help/advice/being shown how to do it. However help was not forthcoming.
5. Again my drill was getting better. Judging by the parade exam this week, I wasn't the only one who had problems with drill.
6. The fact that I went through all the cr@p I went through to get into the RN at all shows that I had drive and commitment.
7. I'm not sure why, but the instructors gave me a harder time that anyone else. That is not just my opinion, several others pointed it out to me, including a couple of people who had spent time in the forces.
8. The amount of time I had spent getting into the RN shows that I have drive and commitment.
9. Artificers train up to HND level, I have an HND and A BSc (Hons). So I could certainly do the job.
But being able to do the job, understanding what the RN is for and what it does, abouts its ships, aircraft and weapons, and understanding many of the political and international issues affecting the RN at the moment seems to count for nothing.
I admit my kit muster was bad, but others in the squadron did even worse. But they're not getting kicked out. Ever since day one I was given extra sh!t. I got picked up on minor points that other people got away with, and got beasted more than the rest of the class.
I don't know why, but I think that someone was out to get me, and to make me fail. I don't think two weeks of bullsh!t is particularly appropriate for assessing someone's ability to do a technical job.
So nearly twelve years of effort have come to a grinding halt. I don't know if and when I could reapply, if I wanted to. Also the Reserves were mentioned. But however you try to look on the bright side, this is a disaster for me that was needless.
Advice anyone???
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 14th Jun 2002 at 19:15.
Apart from your affinity for big grey boats you always seemed much too bright to be wearing dark blue! But very bad luck, all the same, and I can't help thinking that the Navy's loss may be another, more intelligent employer's gain.
Out after two weeks for physical fitness and sloppy kit/drill seems a little precipitant, if not actually barking mad - go in for some brutal self examination and try and work out why you were 'singled out' for these two formal warnings, and what lay behind the comment about your attitude. If what happened is as you describe, I am astonished, and offer the crumb that you're best off out of it. But perhaps you weren't ready or right just now? If you do reapply or indeed if you do go for another service, then take six months out doing a non-stressful job which gives you time to get physically fit and to become a demon at ironing/folding and all the other ***** which is required.
And in your case, I do wonder whether the old "be the grey man" advice might not be useful - you do seem a bit irrepressable and enthusiastic! Perhaps also you just don't 'fit' in the lower mess deck or whatever they call the enlisted ranks in the RN? Perhaps you'd have been better advised to brush up the whole leadership/maturity side outside the service you clearly love, and try to go in as a commissioned officer later.
Whatever you do, good luck. There are plenty of employers who need high calibre people - maybe you should consider the police?
Bad luck again.
Out after two weeks for physical fitness and sloppy kit/drill seems a little precipitant, if not actually barking mad - go in for some brutal self examination and try and work out why you were 'singled out' for these two formal warnings, and what lay behind the comment about your attitude. If what happened is as you describe, I am astonished, and offer the crumb that you're best off out of it. But perhaps you weren't ready or right just now? If you do reapply or indeed if you do go for another service, then take six months out doing a non-stressful job which gives you time to get physically fit and to become a demon at ironing/folding and all the other ***** which is required.
And in your case, I do wonder whether the old "be the grey man" advice might not be useful - you do seem a bit irrepressable and enthusiastic! Perhaps also you just don't 'fit' in the lower mess deck or whatever they call the enlisted ranks in the RN? Perhaps you'd have been better advised to brush up the whole leadership/maturity side outside the service you clearly love, and try to go in as a commissioned officer later.
Whatever you do, good luck. There are plenty of employers who need high calibre people - maybe you should consider the police?
Bad luck again.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No....no...no....sounds just like a "conway".....always whineing.
If you seriously belive your "pruning" has some how led to your Naval demise then you really need to self examine! Conspiricy theory?
Bearing in mind the 3 services are V V desperate to employ, one wonders what you have to do to fail! Maybe you need to practice ironing/marching or whatever but at this time you appear to not have what HM Forces want.
Either practice your domestic and marching skills or take your talents else where. Whatever I hope you find your way in life and can put all this behind you.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
If you seriously belive your "pruning" has some how led to your Naval demise then you really need to self examine! Conspiricy theory?
Bearing in mind the 3 services are V V desperate to employ, one wonders what you have to do to fail! Maybe you need to practice ironing/marching or whatever but at this time you appear to not have what HM Forces want.
Either practice your domestic and marching skills or take your talents else where. Whatever I hope you find your way in life and can put all this behind you.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Champagne anyone...?
Sorry to hear of your troubles however I doubt there was a conspiracy nor was there a "stitch-up".
Out after 2 weeks does seem a bit harsh but then I guess there are always two sides to every story.
Unfortunately there is absolutely no excuse for turning up for training unfit. Blaming your old job for not giving the time off is a bit weak. There's always time for training - if you want to do it enough.
Like I said, out after 2 weeks is a bit harsh however I would suggest a little more introspection and slightly less conspiracy theory on your part is now the way ahead. Every pilot (pretty much) who's ever been chopped from a flying course will usually have a list of reasons why they were chopped and how it wasn't fair blah blah. At the end of the day you weren't hacking it and so were binned. Sorry. As Jacko says, take the experience and try to learn from it. If you do reapply and are re-selected then make sure you turn suitably prepared. There's more to military training than being able to wax lyrical about naval doctrine.
In answer to all your questions I have a few opinions (please don’t take my answers the wrong way – I’m just providing you with a different viewpoint not a slagging off)
1. I am no idiot. With my qualifications I KNOW that I could do the job, and there would be no danger of me failing the academic side of things.
Qualifications aren’t the be-all and end-all.
2. OK, so I struggled with some of the physical side, but so did lots of other people. That's the whole point of training.
Assuming you pitch up with a sensible degree of fitness to start with
3. As I said my kit and standard of dress/smartness had improved massively by the end of week two, and was continuing to get better.
In your opinion. Perhaps not quickly enough in their opinion.
4. I told my Instructors that I was struggling with the kit, and asked for help/advice/being shown how to do it. However help was not forthcoming.
What about the other folks on the course? Surely you went to them for help? It’s all about teamwork – us against them. That’s why DS are often complete b@5t@rds – they want you all to unite in a team against the staff. Basic stuff really
5. Again my drill was getting better. Judging by the parade exam this week, I wasn't the only onw who had problems with drill.
Okay, but perhaps those who were struggling with drill could complete the shuttle run? Perhaps this was the nail in the coffin for you?
6. The fact that I went through all the cr@p I went through to get into the RN at all shows that I had drive and commitment.
Has that drive and commitment been questioned?
7. I'm not sure why, but the instructors gave me a harder time that anyone else. That is not just my opinion, several others pointed it out to me, including a couple of people who had spent time in the forces.
Perhaps because you’re well educated? Or maybe you are just a conspiracy theorist, I don’t know. People always get singled out during training. I know I was.
8. The amount of time I had spent getting into the RN shows that I have drive and commitment.
See above
9. Artificers train up to HND level, I have an HND and A BSc (Hons). So I could certainly do the job.
I know people with all sorts of qualifications who couldn’t find their @r5e in the bath with both hands. There’s more to a job than just previous qualifications.
As the man said though, the military are crying out for people at the moment. Perhaps it's just not for you?
Again, bad luck.
PS. Ironing practice?
Out after 2 weeks does seem a bit harsh but then I guess there are always two sides to every story.
Unfortunately there is absolutely no excuse for turning up for training unfit. Blaming your old job for not giving the time off is a bit weak. There's always time for training - if you want to do it enough.
Like I said, out after 2 weeks is a bit harsh however I would suggest a little more introspection and slightly less conspiracy theory on your part is now the way ahead. Every pilot (pretty much) who's ever been chopped from a flying course will usually have a list of reasons why they were chopped and how it wasn't fair blah blah. At the end of the day you weren't hacking it and so were binned. Sorry. As Jacko says, take the experience and try to learn from it. If you do reapply and are re-selected then make sure you turn suitably prepared. There's more to military training than being able to wax lyrical about naval doctrine.
In answer to all your questions I have a few opinions (please don’t take my answers the wrong way – I’m just providing you with a different viewpoint not a slagging off)
1. I am no idiot. With my qualifications I KNOW that I could do the job, and there would be no danger of me failing the academic side of things.
Qualifications aren’t the be-all and end-all.
2. OK, so I struggled with some of the physical side, but so did lots of other people. That's the whole point of training.
Assuming you pitch up with a sensible degree of fitness to start with
3. As I said my kit and standard of dress/smartness had improved massively by the end of week two, and was continuing to get better.
In your opinion. Perhaps not quickly enough in their opinion.
4. I told my Instructors that I was struggling with the kit, and asked for help/advice/being shown how to do it. However help was not forthcoming.
What about the other folks on the course? Surely you went to them for help? It’s all about teamwork – us against them. That’s why DS are often complete b@5t@rds – they want you all to unite in a team against the staff. Basic stuff really
5. Again my drill was getting better. Judging by the parade exam this week, I wasn't the only onw who had problems with drill.
Okay, but perhaps those who were struggling with drill could complete the shuttle run? Perhaps this was the nail in the coffin for you?
6. The fact that I went through all the cr@p I went through to get into the RN at all shows that I had drive and commitment.
Has that drive and commitment been questioned?
7. I'm not sure why, but the instructors gave me a harder time that anyone else. That is not just my opinion, several others pointed it out to me, including a couple of people who had spent time in the forces.
Perhaps because you’re well educated? Or maybe you are just a conspiracy theorist, I don’t know. People always get singled out during training. I know I was.
8. The amount of time I had spent getting into the RN shows that I have drive and commitment.
See above
9. Artificers train up to HND level, I have an HND and A BSc (Hons). So I could certainly do the job.
I know people with all sorts of qualifications who couldn’t find their @r5e in the bath with both hands. There’s more to a job than just previous qualifications.
As the man said though, the military are crying out for people at the moment. Perhaps it's just not for you?
Again, bad luck.
PS. Ironing practice?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fact having read this again there is even more bo@@cks here than I initially thought.
"The place where I was from February to May refused to let me have any time off until ONE WEEK from my entry date. So I had little time to prepare. My fitness programme suffered massively, and I had little time to practice and perfect the dull but important art of ironing and folding clothes"
So your previous employer worked you so hard, the hours were so long that you were incapable of getting fit or developing the required domestic skills. Horse pooh!! My daughter, at 14 can put a pretty mean crease in a shirt or trousers as can my 15 year old son when prompted and both can quite happily achieve an above average score on the beep test!
"I did have some difficulties with some areas of the PT, particularly the shuttle run. But I was making progress. I also had some problems with drill, although from what I saw, so did everyone else. But the real problem was kit, particulary ironing, folding and stowing it correctly."
I would suggest putting on a pot of coffee.....and then smelling it!
"But being able to do the job, understanding what the RN is for and what it does, abouts its ships, aircraft and weapons, and understanding many of the political and international issues affecting the RN at the moment seems to count for nothing."
"I admit my kit muster was bad, but others in the squadron did even worse. But they're not getting kicked out. Ever since day one I was given extra sh!t. I got picked up on minor points that other people got away with, and got beasted more than the rest of the class."
As regards the above two extracts if you are incapable of mananging the basic tasks that thousands of your predeccesors have managed are really surprised at the outcome?
"I don't know why, but I think that someone was out to get me, and to make me fail. I don't think two weeks of bullsh!t is particularly appropriate for assessing someone's ability to do a technical job."
However please read the above and ask yourself how paranoid is this?
I would rather brutally suggest, as would most military folks, that you just have not cut the mustard. This happens and you need to move on. As Jacko suggests maybe your talents are best emplyed elsewhere so go forth and multiply young man and consign the Navy to history.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
"The place where I was from February to May refused to let me have any time off until ONE WEEK from my entry date. So I had little time to prepare. My fitness programme suffered massively, and I had little time to practice and perfect the dull but important art of ironing and folding clothes"
So your previous employer worked you so hard, the hours were so long that you were incapable of getting fit or developing the required domestic skills. Horse pooh!! My daughter, at 14 can put a pretty mean crease in a shirt or trousers as can my 15 year old son when prompted and both can quite happily achieve an above average score on the beep test!
"I did have some difficulties with some areas of the PT, particularly the shuttle run. But I was making progress. I also had some problems with drill, although from what I saw, so did everyone else. But the real problem was kit, particulary ironing, folding and stowing it correctly."
I would suggest putting on a pot of coffee.....and then smelling it!
"But being able to do the job, understanding what the RN is for and what it does, abouts its ships, aircraft and weapons, and understanding many of the political and international issues affecting the RN at the moment seems to count for nothing."
"I admit my kit muster was bad, but others in the squadron did even worse. But they're not getting kicked out. Ever since day one I was given extra sh!t. I got picked up on minor points that other people got away with, and got beasted more than the rest of the class."
As regards the above two extracts if you are incapable of mananging the basic tasks that thousands of your predeccesors have managed are really surprised at the outcome?
"I don't know why, but I think that someone was out to get me, and to make me fail. I don't think two weeks of bullsh!t is particularly appropriate for assessing someone's ability to do a technical job."
However please read the above and ask yourself how paranoid is this?
I would rather brutally suggest, as would most military folks, that you just have not cut the mustard. This happens and you need to move on. As Jacko suggests maybe your talents are best emplyed elsewhere so go forth and multiply young man and consign the Navy to history.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You, my friend, are the kind of crap that we hopefully try and sift out! You are obviously unfit - even compared to the PlayStation generation! All the studying in the world does not make you gods gift to the forces! You may have the academic qualifications after years of trying......but.....
.....I have read your, educated, but historical posts over the last few months. Well, who would have guessed there would have been a Falklands war in the last hundred years!!!! Well nobody, educated anyway!
Forging things on the past is a dire mistake! Basing future procurement on the Falklands would be a dire mistake - in the next 50 years anyway!
But to get back to the point, bar trying to discredit you about defence procurement, you were nothing more than an educated spotter who had an opportunity of joining the forces.
Well, you blew it - you are not wanted, probably because you are a loser who drags the rest of you unfortunate comrades down!!! Cut you lose, they will all probably graduate with colours!!!
Sounds harsh, but you are a far to clever to$$er who needs to be brought down to earth. Go away and never post again!
.....I have read your, educated, but historical posts over the last few months. Well, who would have guessed there would have been a Falklands war in the last hundred years!!!! Well nobody, educated anyway!
Forging things on the past is a dire mistake! Basing future procurement on the Falklands would be a dire mistake - in the next 50 years anyway!
But to get back to the point, bar trying to discredit you about defence procurement, you were nothing more than an educated spotter who had an opportunity of joining the forces.
Well, you blew it - you are not wanted, probably because you are a loser who drags the rest of you unfortunate comrades down!!! Cut you lose, they will all probably graduate with colours!!!
Sounds harsh, but you are a far to clever to$$er who needs to be brought down to earth. Go away and never post again!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More Track Suit and Less PPRuNe
Sorry WEBF but you do sound as though you may well have been a square peg in a round hole. Anyone who, when on board the grey funnel line, can't stow their kit neatly and hygenically or run up and down companion ways without blocking other crew during alerts etc. would not be welcome, regardless of qualifications.
The whole point about the armed forces is that, in addition to knowing your stuff, you will fit into a close knit fighting team, simply knowing your stuff puts you fair and square in R & D with someone like Thornycroft or Vickers, thought about those options?
I am surprised that the day you get binned you are back on your computer! Could it be that between Feb and May, when you should have been out and about in your track suit or at a local gym getting training you were, in fact, sitting at your PC posting on PPRuNe?
The point has been made that as trainees you should help each other and not expect the DS to do more than show you anything once. I happened to be good at boots so whilst I did extra pairs my top kit brasses, (all 72 of them!), got done for me. Did you see this kind of team building going on around you? Did you pi$$ all the other lads off?
Both the items, fitness and care of kit, are easily redeemable and if you wanted to you could, but I suspect That they were not the only reasons behind your demise, you mentioned attitude!
Best of luck in whatever you do now, better to find out sooner than later what you can and cannot do, above all, when you go for interviews only blame yourself.
The whole point about the armed forces is that, in addition to knowing your stuff, you will fit into a close knit fighting team, simply knowing your stuff puts you fair and square in R & D with someone like Thornycroft or Vickers, thought about those options?
I am surprised that the day you get binned you are back on your computer! Could it be that between Feb and May, when you should have been out and about in your track suit or at a local gym getting training you were, in fact, sitting at your PC posting on PPRuNe?
The point has been made that as trainees you should help each other and not expect the DS to do more than show you anything once. I happened to be good at boots so whilst I did extra pairs my top kit brasses, (all 72 of them!), got done for me. Did you see this kind of team building going on around you? Did you pi$$ all the other lads off?
Both the items, fitness and care of kit, are easily redeemable and if you wanted to you could, but I suspect That they were not the only reasons behind your demise, you mentioned attitude!
Best of luck in whatever you do now, better to find out sooner than later what you can and cannot do, above all, when you go for interviews only blame yourself.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mostly here, but often there
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm....tough titty sunshine. None of us had it easy, but that's what it's all about I suppose.
Plea: Can all the " could've, should've...bastards have got it in for me..."-types please stop posting. Maybe you should start a "losers r us" forum and leave us to get on with some real whingeing...
Plea: Can all the " could've, should've...bastards have got it in for me..."-types please stop posting. Maybe you should start a "losers r us" forum and leave us to get on with some real whingeing...
Some of you guys are pretty good at kicking someone when he's obviously feeling pretty down.
OK - so WEBF was unsuccessful in his attempt at the career he aspired to. For one reason or another, most of which have probably been accurately stated by StopStart. But perhaps a little more sympathy and less abuse would have been more appropriate from others.
WEBF - sorry that you were unsuccessful and I'm sure that you're pretty choked. But there must be other careers out there for someone of your background - even if you can't iron a sailor-suit quite as quickly as some, or commit sport to the same standard as even the sylph-like StopStart!
..and Stoppers, any officer suffering injury through playing Kevball should expect to get singled out! Didn't I teach you anything about standards?
Uh-oh - he's going to use the Hawaiian shirt blackmail ploy again.....
OK - so WEBF was unsuccessful in his attempt at the career he aspired to. For one reason or another, most of which have probably been accurately stated by StopStart. But perhaps a little more sympathy and less abuse would have been more appropriate from others.
WEBF - sorry that you were unsuccessful and I'm sure that you're pretty choked. But there must be other careers out there for someone of your background - even if you can't iron a sailor-suit quite as quickly as some, or commit sport to the same standard as even the sylph-like StopStart!
..and Stoppers, any officer suffering injury through playing Kevball should expect to get singled out! Didn't I teach you anything about standards?
Uh-oh - he's going to use the Hawaiian shirt blackmail ploy again.....
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: ISLE OF MAN
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry to hear your news, but the forces are (still) that sort of place. With good reason to a certain extent. A degree of sh*t kicking does help a young recruit put things in perspective.
However, the most important thing is, not to dwell on this and spend the next couple of years building up to a re entry that still might not work. Life it too short for that. Sit down with a pen, paper and look at your strengths and weaknesses. Even better, do it with a mate who you know will take a subjective look at you. Once you've done that, see what job you'd fit in to and make it your future.
Life is full of disappointments. The skill is in putting them behind you
However, the most important thing is, not to dwell on this and spend the next couple of years building up to a re entry that still might not work. Life it too short for that. Sit down with a pen, paper and look at your strengths and weaknesses. Even better, do it with a mate who you know will take a subjective look at you. Once you've done that, see what job you'd fit in to and make it your future.
Life is full of disappointments. The skill is in putting them behind you
Lupus Domesticus
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NZ
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
(cracks knuckles)
Hmm. WE, a few thoughts.
Many years ago now, I missed selection for RNZAF pilot training because my eyesight wasn't up to standard.
Everything else, academics, fitness, aptitude, was fine.
It had been my life-long dream; everything I had done up to that point, school subjects, sports, the ATC, Duke of Edinburgh Awards, etc etc, had been geared to that end.
I wanted to fly fast killing machines. That's all. Nothing else was even remotely of interest.
When it didn't happen, I was more than gutted; I was lost. I went through what I now know were a number of recognisable stages; denial, anger, grief, and so on.
They offered me engineering instead. I turned it down. Looking back, that act of pique reveals to me an aspect of my - I won't say attitude - approach to things, which in hindsight leads me to wonder whether in fact I would have made the grade had I been accepted.
As things turned out, I did engineering anyway, off my own bat; worked with the military on defence engineering projects; met innumerable service people with whom I formed firm friendships - I still think they're the best people in the world.
Later, I took up flying as well, also off my own bat. So I've done many of the things I would have done had I joined the Air Force way back then. In a different way, and perhaps to a slightly different purpose; but many good things still came out of it, and in retrospect although I admit there is an element of disappointment about the past, if I had my time over I don't think I would change it.
For whatever reason, it wasn't meant to be. And the reality is that it didn't happen.
Many things have changed since then. Perfect uncorrected eyesight is no longer a prerequisite for acceptance into RNZAF pilot training. On top of that, recent political changes have meant that we no longer have an Air Combat Force.
So if I had got in back then I wouldn't be doing it now anyway; though knowing what I do about myself now, I think it quite likely that I may have got out and done something else regardless.
But I digress. WE, the reality is this.
You wanted in; you got in; now you're out, which is not what you wanted. Conclusion: at this point, you are not in.
The reasons for this may be simple, or may be many and varied; they may never be known. However, some possibilities are easier to eliminate than others.
If there is a conspiracy, reality suggests that you are never going to overcome it, so you might as well accept that fact, and go do something else.
I think it unlikely that conspiracy is the answer. If the RN didn't want you in you wouldn't have got in. I would doubt very much that "they" would bother to bring you in and then throw you out just to teach you a lesson.
If it is a question of attitude, or a difference of attitude, then history suggests quite strongly that the establishment is unlikey to change theirs before you change yours. Right or wrong, this is the way things are.
Knowing your attitude is part of knowing yourself, which sounds a bit trendy-pinko-seventies-peace-love-and-mungbeans I know, but self discovery is part of life's fascinating journey, regardless of the path of travel by which you explore it.
Know yourself, and you will know whether you have chosen the correct path.
If it's something simple like fitness or ironing, fix it, and do it again. If that's still what you want. If on the other hand you discover you don't want it anymore, then consider yourself lucky that you have discovered it sooner rather than later.
Somebody who is talented, informed, articulate, and passionate, is always going to be able to contribute. But it may be that the mechanism for their contribution turns out to not be what they had first assumed.
Maybe you can fight the system and win. Nothing is impossible. Some things, however, are improbable.
Sometimes, however hard it may be to swallow, when we disagree with people, it may not be because they are wrong.
Get drunk, my friend. Get very drunk, and very angry. Rant, rave, punch the walls and scream.
When your hangover has abated, take a good, hard, long look at what it is that you really want from life, what you want to contribute, and why. It may prove that you have missed the trees for concentrating on the wood.
People may give you a hard time in this forum. Don't take it too personally. They are straightforward, uncompromising types, which is part of what makes them so good at what they do. If this is the worst abuse you ever suffer in life you will be fortunate indeed.
Finally, remember this: the highest places are reached by the rockiest paths.
Good luck my friend, though you don't really need it. One way or another, you'll do OK.
Hmm. WE, a few thoughts.
Many years ago now, I missed selection for RNZAF pilot training because my eyesight wasn't up to standard.
Everything else, academics, fitness, aptitude, was fine.
It had been my life-long dream; everything I had done up to that point, school subjects, sports, the ATC, Duke of Edinburgh Awards, etc etc, had been geared to that end.
I wanted to fly fast killing machines. That's all. Nothing else was even remotely of interest.
When it didn't happen, I was more than gutted; I was lost. I went through what I now know were a number of recognisable stages; denial, anger, grief, and so on.
They offered me engineering instead. I turned it down. Looking back, that act of pique reveals to me an aspect of my - I won't say attitude - approach to things, which in hindsight leads me to wonder whether in fact I would have made the grade had I been accepted.
As things turned out, I did engineering anyway, off my own bat; worked with the military on defence engineering projects; met innumerable service people with whom I formed firm friendships - I still think they're the best people in the world.
Later, I took up flying as well, also off my own bat. So I've done many of the things I would have done had I joined the Air Force way back then. In a different way, and perhaps to a slightly different purpose; but many good things still came out of it, and in retrospect although I admit there is an element of disappointment about the past, if I had my time over I don't think I would change it.
For whatever reason, it wasn't meant to be. And the reality is that it didn't happen.
Many things have changed since then. Perfect uncorrected eyesight is no longer a prerequisite for acceptance into RNZAF pilot training. On top of that, recent political changes have meant that we no longer have an Air Combat Force.
So if I had got in back then I wouldn't be doing it now anyway; though knowing what I do about myself now, I think it quite likely that I may have got out and done something else regardless.
But I digress. WE, the reality is this.
You wanted in; you got in; now you're out, which is not what you wanted. Conclusion: at this point, you are not in.
The reasons for this may be simple, or may be many and varied; they may never be known. However, some possibilities are easier to eliminate than others.
If there is a conspiracy, reality suggests that you are never going to overcome it, so you might as well accept that fact, and go do something else.
I think it unlikely that conspiracy is the answer. If the RN didn't want you in you wouldn't have got in. I would doubt very much that "they" would bother to bring you in and then throw you out just to teach you a lesson.
If it is a question of attitude, or a difference of attitude, then history suggests quite strongly that the establishment is unlikey to change theirs before you change yours. Right or wrong, this is the way things are.
Knowing your attitude is part of knowing yourself, which sounds a bit trendy-pinko-seventies-peace-love-and-mungbeans I know, but self discovery is part of life's fascinating journey, regardless of the path of travel by which you explore it.
Know yourself, and you will know whether you have chosen the correct path.
If it's something simple like fitness or ironing, fix it, and do it again. If that's still what you want. If on the other hand you discover you don't want it anymore, then consider yourself lucky that you have discovered it sooner rather than later.
Somebody who is talented, informed, articulate, and passionate, is always going to be able to contribute. But it may be that the mechanism for their contribution turns out to not be what they had first assumed.
Maybe you can fight the system and win. Nothing is impossible. Some things, however, are improbable.
Sometimes, however hard it may be to swallow, when we disagree with people, it may not be because they are wrong.
Get drunk, my friend. Get very drunk, and very angry. Rant, rave, punch the walls and scream.
When your hangover has abated, take a good, hard, long look at what it is that you really want from life, what you want to contribute, and why. It may prove that you have missed the trees for concentrating on the wood.
People may give you a hard time in this forum. Don't take it too personally. They are straightforward, uncompromising types, which is part of what makes them so good at what they do. If this is the worst abuse you ever suffer in life you will be fortunate indeed.
Finally, remember this: the highest places are reached by the rockiest paths.
Good luck my friend, though you don't really need it. One way or another, you'll do OK.
Thread Starter
A few points.....
1. Since you don't know me personally, I would prefer it if you did not label me as a "loser".
2. Prior to joining the RN, you are given a fitness programme to follow. This I did.
3. I am not a conspiracy theorist. However, I still think that I was singled out and given extra crap. Other people, including some who had been in the (other) services before, also saw this and pointed this out to me.
4. In the three areas I mention, kit, drill and physical there were people who were worse than me. I can also tell you that whenever my division was doing drill, lots of people made mistakes. This is natural, of corse, but it was me that got blamed (by the drill instructors).
5. Knobjockey I resent the allegation that I was dragging the rest of the division/class down. I was NOT, and my DO said so. I was not the only one having a few problems. On the same subject, I was helping some of my fellow trainees with the academic and technical sides of the training, which they will be examined on and some of them will get failed for.
6. Wilts......I agree, you cannot expect the instructors to show you something more than once. But that was my point, they DIDN'T show me AT ALL.
7. As for kit, the kit musters (having things folded and ironed) was the issue, not the kit I was wearing, which had improved rapidly to a point where the Chief GI was more or less happy with it.
1. Since you don't know me personally, I would prefer it if you did not label me as a "loser".
2. Prior to joining the RN, you are given a fitness programme to follow. This I did.
3. I am not a conspiracy theorist. However, I still think that I was singled out and given extra crap. Other people, including some who had been in the (other) services before, also saw this and pointed this out to me.
4. In the three areas I mention, kit, drill and physical there were people who were worse than me. I can also tell you that whenever my division was doing drill, lots of people made mistakes. This is natural, of corse, but it was me that got blamed (by the drill instructors).
5. Knobjockey I resent the allegation that I was dragging the rest of the division/class down. I was NOT, and my DO said so. I was not the only one having a few problems. On the same subject, I was helping some of my fellow trainees with the academic and technical sides of the training, which they will be examined on and some of them will get failed for.
6. Wilts......I agree, you cannot expect the instructors to show you something more than once. But that was my point, they DIDN'T show me AT ALL.
7. As for kit, the kit musters (having things folded and ironed) was the issue, not the kit I was wearing, which had improved rapidly to a point where the Chief GI was more or less happy with it.
Blimey, thought I was being firm and harsh! Let's remember that for all his paranoia this is a young (you remember?) lad who's just suffered the worst disappointment of his life.
Brutal self assessment is hard at any age, but impossible until you reach maturity.
Brutal self assessment is hard at any age, but impossible until you reach maturity.
Guest
Posts: n/a
WEBF,
Sorry to hear the news.
Firstly, the services do not just bin candidates for the sake of it , especially in this day and age. You need to be honest with yourself, and brutally so. Were you an "admin monster?"
In other words, apart from your kit being minging, was your personal space in the same state? How many times did the CPO have to scream at you, to get things done? How many times were you last on parade, or in the OR's club, when you really should have been sorting your admin out?
How many times, did you find a clever excuse or reason not to do something, or try and engage the training staff, in a reasoned debate, as to why you didn't have to do something? Believe me, I train, and nothing fcuks me off faster, than a wise-mouthed recruit, trying to tell me something, I've heard 20 times before.
2. Prior to joining the RN, you are given a fitness programme to follow. This I did.
No you didn't, you were pulled up on your fitness remember. We give our recruits a fitness programme to follow, as well as telling them, if they want to do extra training, they are welcome to join us in the gym, or in a post work run. How many times did you go to you section commander, and ask him, if you could get some remedial PT? None i guess.
3. I am not a conspiracy theorist. However, I still think that I was singled out and given extra crap. Other people, including some who had been in the (other) services before, also saw this and pointed this out to me.
If you were singled out, it was for two reasons.
a. You were just an honest to goodness bag-of-bollox, who was rapidly shaping up into a waste of his rum ration or .
b. The staff realised you had leadership potential, and wanted to see how you performed under pressure. If you were indeed helping your division oppos with aspects of the course that they had problems with, then that would mark you, for watching. However, you can only do that, if you yourself were ship-shape and Bristol. Basic training in the first weeks, is about self-improvement, THEN helping others, Get yourself straight first, then help everyone else, and believe me, the TS would look very very positively on that, it shows "Leadership" you see....
Instructors will tolerate a lot, if they can see a candidate is trying. We are not ogres, we've been through the same mill as you, and if we see a candidate is keen as mustard, but not up to scratch, we know we're 75% of the way, to turning him into an asset. Fitness comes with time, and in retrospect, I think you realise, that a lot of your evenings, could have been spent seeking out training staff, and getting help with the aspects that you couldn't deal with.
On the subject of ironing , christ on a bicycle, have you never ironed your own stuff, when you're going out on the pull, or have you always had mummy do it for you?
So you very succesfully managed to show the directing staff, that your self-motivation for being in the Armed Forces, was nil. You showed little or no evidence of pride in the service and yourself, and certainly a great fat zip, in the potential "Nelson" stakes.
Remeber, we're not just trying to recruit numpties, we're recruiting potential future leaders, and every single recruit, is looked at in this regard, till he proves otherwise. One day in the future, you may have been required to fight the ship, as the sole commission left standing, or represent the Royal Navy in some capacity, and as far as the training staff were concerned, they had to stop Admiral Hood spinning in his grave, because the noise was keeping them awake at night.
That's the negatives, a lot of us are being harsh, because we KNOW both sides of the story, as it has happened before.
Now the positives........
I believe you mentioned, a suggestion of trying for RNR?
Good, here's what you do. Get your Admin sorted out first and foremost, and stop thinking of weasly words or clever excuses not to do it.
Get your fitness sorted out, you don't have to be Kris Akaboussi, but a reasonable standard is required, in other words, work towards the "bleep test" . If you need a really good physical training programme, go to www.getfitta.co.uk
Stop blaming everyone else for your failures, and get some humility. I have no doubt, you are a rocket scientist in the making, but if you can't work with your oppos, or command their respect, then you are on a hiding to nothing.
In summary.
1. Get your admin sorted out, learn to iron and make your bed, give your poor old mum a break
2. Don't backchat the TS , and do what they say, no matter how beneath you it feels
3. Get some PT in, start with 4 mile walks 5 days a week, with some light jogging thrown in, go to www.getfitta.co.uk and follow the programme
4.Get an attitude transplant ,some humility and act like Forrest Gump in basic.
Once you have achived at least those four points, then, and only then, apply to RNR. If you pass, and are successful, and not adjuged a ******, you'll be on deployment b4 you can say Knife.
.last but not least, cheer up, even Nelson failed IOT the first time
Tony
Sorry to hear the news.
Firstly, the services do not just bin candidates for the sake of it , especially in this day and age. You need to be honest with yourself, and brutally so. Were you an "admin monster?"
In other words, apart from your kit being minging, was your personal space in the same state? How many times did the CPO have to scream at you, to get things done? How many times were you last on parade, or in the OR's club, when you really should have been sorting your admin out?
How many times, did you find a clever excuse or reason not to do something, or try and engage the training staff, in a reasoned debate, as to why you didn't have to do something? Believe me, I train, and nothing fcuks me off faster, than a wise-mouthed recruit, trying to tell me something, I've heard 20 times before.
2. Prior to joining the RN, you are given a fitness programme to follow. This I did.
No you didn't, you were pulled up on your fitness remember. We give our recruits a fitness programme to follow, as well as telling them, if they want to do extra training, they are welcome to join us in the gym, or in a post work run. How many times did you go to you section commander, and ask him, if you could get some remedial PT? None i guess.
3. I am not a conspiracy theorist. However, I still think that I was singled out and given extra crap. Other people, including some who had been in the (other) services before, also saw this and pointed this out to me.
If you were singled out, it was for two reasons.
a. You were just an honest to goodness bag-of-bollox, who was rapidly shaping up into a waste of his rum ration or .
b. The staff realised you had leadership potential, and wanted to see how you performed under pressure. If you were indeed helping your division oppos with aspects of the course that they had problems with, then that would mark you, for watching. However, you can only do that, if you yourself were ship-shape and Bristol. Basic training in the first weeks, is about self-improvement, THEN helping others, Get yourself straight first, then help everyone else, and believe me, the TS would look very very positively on that, it shows "Leadership" you see....
Instructors will tolerate a lot, if they can see a candidate is trying. We are not ogres, we've been through the same mill as you, and if we see a candidate is keen as mustard, but not up to scratch, we know we're 75% of the way, to turning him into an asset. Fitness comes with time, and in retrospect, I think you realise, that a lot of your evenings, could have been spent seeking out training staff, and getting help with the aspects that you couldn't deal with.
On the subject of ironing , christ on a bicycle, have you never ironed your own stuff, when you're going out on the pull, or have you always had mummy do it for you?
So you very succesfully managed to show the directing staff, that your self-motivation for being in the Armed Forces, was nil. You showed little or no evidence of pride in the service and yourself, and certainly a great fat zip, in the potential "Nelson" stakes.
Remeber, we're not just trying to recruit numpties, we're recruiting potential future leaders, and every single recruit, is looked at in this regard, till he proves otherwise. One day in the future, you may have been required to fight the ship, as the sole commission left standing, or represent the Royal Navy in some capacity, and as far as the training staff were concerned, they had to stop Admiral Hood spinning in his grave, because the noise was keeping them awake at night.
That's the negatives, a lot of us are being harsh, because we KNOW both sides of the story, as it has happened before.
Now the positives........
I believe you mentioned, a suggestion of trying for RNR?
Good, here's what you do. Get your Admin sorted out first and foremost, and stop thinking of weasly words or clever excuses not to do it.
Get your fitness sorted out, you don't have to be Kris Akaboussi, but a reasonable standard is required, in other words, work towards the "bleep test" . If you need a really good physical training programme, go to www.getfitta.co.uk
Stop blaming everyone else for your failures, and get some humility. I have no doubt, you are a rocket scientist in the making, but if you can't work with your oppos, or command their respect, then you are on a hiding to nothing.
In summary.
1. Get your admin sorted out, learn to iron and make your bed, give your poor old mum a break
2. Don't backchat the TS , and do what they say, no matter how beneath you it feels
3. Get some PT in, start with 4 mile walks 5 days a week, with some light jogging thrown in, go to www.getfitta.co.uk and follow the programme
4.Get an attitude transplant ,some humility and act like Forrest Gump in basic.
Once you have achived at least those four points, then, and only then, apply to RNR. If you pass, and are successful, and not adjuged a ******, you'll be on deployment b4 you can say Knife.
.last but not least, cheer up, even Nelson failed IOT the first time
Tony
Last edited by solotk; 14th Jun 2002 at 12:13.
Thread Starter
Once again I am forced to defend myself.....
I NEVER got lippy with ANY of the instructors. As I saw it, I was there to follow their instructions.
Secondly my kit was not "minging", it just wasn't perfectly folded down to A4 size and laid out.
And when the statement that led to me getting the order of the boot was being read out it mentioned ".......desptite his obvious determination......."
I NEVER got lippy with ANY of the instructors. As I saw it, I was there to follow their instructions.
Secondly my kit was not "minging", it just wasn't perfectly folded down to A4 size and laid out.
And when the statement that led to me getting the order of the boot was being read out it mentioned ".......desptite his obvious determination......."
Guest
Posts: n/a
And when the statement that led to me getting the order of the boot was being read out it mentioned ".......desptite his obvious determination......."
I would think that "Fails to listen objectively" might have been one of the other things said.
I have just taken the time, to tell you how a Services instructor might see it, and offered advice, as to what to do, if you wish to pursue a Forces career.
The fact you don't respond well to criticism, is a major pointer. Now if you want a forces career, I suggest you shut up and listen, instead of your continual refrain of "It's not my fault"
If it really isn't your fault, then appeal the decision. If that is not a possible route, and I shudder to think why, then take the advice offered by all and sundry, and knuckle down and be the best you can be. You were obviously unprepared for the career, so get prepared, and try the RNR route. Beleive me, if you do that right, you'll get your ticket yet
Tony
I would think that "Fails to listen objectively" might have been one of the other things said.
I have just taken the time, to tell you how a Services instructor might see it, and offered advice, as to what to do, if you wish to pursue a Forces career.
The fact you don't respond well to criticism, is a major pointer. Now if you want a forces career, I suggest you shut up and listen, instead of your continual refrain of "It's not my fault"
If it really isn't your fault, then appeal the decision. If that is not a possible route, and I shudder to think why, then take the advice offered by all and sundry, and knuckle down and be the best you can be. You were obviously unprepared for the career, so get prepared, and try the RNR route. Beleive me, if you do that right, you'll get your ticket yet
Tony
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with all the above, I'm an RNR officer currently finishing off a course at HMS Collingwood and I have seen a lot of JRs just out of Raleigh this past week. My impression of WEBF is of someone who is a spotter - knows every aspect of the RN except for the real things. Look at the SHAR thread - it reads like a trainspotters diary. Yes my friends and I occasionally talk shop in the wardroom, but never with the lads, we talk about sex / drugs & rock n'roll 
Seriously, the lads aren't interested in this sort of thing, and I get the impression that he thought the whole navy was champing at the bit to talk about SHAR etc.
I too wanted to go regular, I failed the eyesight test and ended up in the RNR - I too was a bit like WEBF - thought I knew it all but knew nothing. If you want to go for the RNR then think about it, but don't waste my or any other officers time by turning up fat, unablew to take care of yourself and wanting to talk politics/ ship specs to anyone. You will be laughed out of the service very fast indeed. Also you can't pass out of Raleigh until you pass the RNFT etc.
I very muich doubt the instructors had it in for you, I think you made your own bed and got what you deserved.
If you are serious about the RNR then feel free to email me and I will gladly let you know what goes on. But just remember we are not an organisation for spotters / anoraks - we are a semi professional organisation doing a lot of real world jobs. Wasters need not apply.
Seriously, the lads aren't interested in this sort of thing, and I get the impression that he thought the whole navy was champing at the bit to talk about SHAR etc. I too wanted to go regular, I failed the eyesight test and ended up in the RNR - I too was a bit like WEBF - thought I knew it all but knew nothing. If you want to go for the RNR then think about it, but don't waste my or any other officers time by turning up fat, unablew to take care of yourself and wanting to talk politics/ ship specs to anyone. You will be laughed out of the service very fast indeed. Also you can't pass out of Raleigh until you pass the RNFT etc.
I very muich doubt the instructors had it in for you, I think you made your own bed and got what you deserved.
If you are serious about the RNR then feel free to email me and I will gladly let you know what goes on. But just remember we are not an organisation for spotters / anoraks - we are a semi professional organisation doing a lot of real world jobs. Wasters need not apply.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I very muich doubt the instructors had it in for you, I think you made your own bed and got what you deserved.
.......Filed under unitentional cruel pun - lol
But just remember we are not an organisation for spotters / anoraks - we are a semi professional organisation doing a lot of real world jobs. Wasters need not apply.
Amen to that JimLad, WEBF listen to him, me and the rest of your peers, and we'll make a Tar of you yet.....
But why you want to be one, eludes me
Tony
.......Filed under unitentional cruel pun - lol
But just remember we are not an organisation for spotters / anoraks - we are a semi professional organisation doing a lot of real world jobs. Wasters need not apply.
Amen to that JimLad, WEBF listen to him, me and the rest of your peers, and we'll make a Tar of you yet.....
But why you want to be one, eludes me
Tony
Thread Starter
Jimlad
I did NOT talk shop (SHAR etc) to ANYONE. The only things I talked about were the tasks in hand and the general topics that came up in the mess (eg who's snoring?, the World Cup etc).
I am not a spotter or an anorak.
It was only one aspect of the fitness tests that was a problem. As for the issue of looking after myself, my main problems were the fact that when ironing my creases were not sharp enough. As for other critcism, I am not fat or overweight, and I didn't talk about ship specs/details/politics at all. that was neither the time nor the place.
Oh, and as for the bed pun, my bed didn't get pulled. Came close to it, but it never happened.
I did NOT talk shop (SHAR etc) to ANYONE. The only things I talked about were the tasks in hand and the general topics that came up in the mess (eg who's snoring?, the World Cup etc).
I am not a spotter or an anorak.
It was only one aspect of the fitness tests that was a problem. As for the issue of looking after myself, my main problems were the fact that when ironing my creases were not sharp enough. As for other critcism, I am not fat or overweight, and I didn't talk about ship specs/details/politics at all. that was neither the time nor the place.
Oh, and as for the bed pun, my bed didn't get pulled. Came close to it, but it never happened.