WEBF has been stitched up???
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webf
all i'll say as an x raf nco who sailed through basic training is why if the navy is so short of people are they binning people after two weeks? if you feel so strongly about this i would suggest geting all your facts down on paper and making an appointment at your mps next surgery , then the navy will have to explain why they binned you. personally i would have joined the raf!!!!!!!
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WEBF, sorry to hear about your problems but I'm afraid it sounds like you haven't done yourself any favours. I'm an ex serving RAF officer now retraining as a Naval one (hurrah, should have done it in the first place canberra!!!) and when I went through IOT at Cranwell, I was admittedly awful at first. Like you, I thought everything I did wrong was someone else's fault, that I really wasn't that bad, etc, and that my attitude was good. None of these were the case. The cold hard truth is that you have to learn, and learn fast, that when you are criticised it's usually for a very valid reason and for your own success. You should listen, shut mouth, and engage improvement engines (for want of a better phrase).
Life in the Andrew is proving a thousand times more enjoyable because with a few years hindsight I am applying all I learned and as a result am doing much better in my training. My Flt Cdr hated me and I him, but he treated me the way I did for a reason. If I ever see him again I'd love to give him a damn good leathering but there are few people in Mil life who don't have this view of someone they have worked for.
Take on board what your disappointment has brought out - I know it's hard, believe you me. Good things can always come from bad if you take the time to think about what has happened. You should, if still keen, get your act together and try again if they'll let you. Stop whinging and crack on if it's that important to you.
Rgds
BL
Life in the Andrew is proving a thousand times more enjoyable because with a few years hindsight I am applying all I learned and as a result am doing much better in my training. My Flt Cdr hated me and I him, but he treated me the way I did for a reason. If I ever see him again I'd love to give him a damn good leathering but there are few people in Mil life who don't have this view of someone they have worked for.
Take on board what your disappointment has brought out - I know it's hard, believe you me. Good things can always come from bad if you take the time to think about what has happened. You should, if still keen, get your act together and try again if they'll let you. Stop whinging and crack on if it's that important to you.
Rgds
BL
Thread Starter
Before I get any more hostile comments, or criticism I'd like to point out that it only happened YESTERDAY.
So it will take a while to get my head around it, get sorted out etc.
So it will take a while to get my head around it, get sorted out etc.
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WEBF
Bad luck mate. Blue Wolf and Solotk have given very sound advice - use it the best way you can. Once the less charitable PPRuNers have stopped kicking you while you are down, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and do what you must to improve yourself.
When I failed the AIB on my first attempt I was gutted. I didn't know what to do, whether I would ever be good enough, that I was a failure, etc, etc. But after a **** load of beer and reflection about where I had done badly, I did the things required to change. I got my flabby backside down the gym, grew up a bit and presto, chango, got through it the next time.
Good luck for whatever you do in the future. Remember, when you are down, the only way is up!
Bad luck mate. Blue Wolf and Solotk have given very sound advice - use it the best way you can. Once the less charitable PPRuNers have stopped kicking you while you are down, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and do what you must to improve yourself.
When I failed the AIB on my first attempt I was gutted. I didn't know what to do, whether I would ever be good enough, that I was a failure, etc, etc. But after a **** load of beer and reflection about where I had done badly, I did the things required to change. I got my flabby backside down the gym, grew up a bit and presto, chango, got through it the next time.
Good luck for whatever you do in the future. Remember, when you are down, the only way is up!
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Blimey, Yesterday! That is rough.
Do you live near any hills?
Get a flask, and go up to the top of one, on a weekday. Sit there for an hour, reflect, and plan out your way forward. Sitting in front of that computer aint going to do you any good. Channel your anger and aggression into moving forward mate.
PS. BA are expanding their engineering operation here on the good old IOM. Could do worse.........
Do you live near any hills?
Get a flask, and go up to the top of one, on a weekday. Sit there for an hour, reflect, and plan out your way forward. Sitting in front of that computer aint going to do you any good. Channel your anger and aggression into moving forward mate.
PS. BA are expanding their engineering operation here on the good old IOM. Could do worse.........
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Bad luck me old. Get in there and try again. All DS are chiselers. They only go for the job cos they got a hard time or a recourse themselves. Pick yourself up from ground zero and get back in the fray. Your enthusiasm for the job is plain to see. Banter on these pages is inevitably harsh, sometimes fair, often funny and always contains a home truth or two.
The thing about criticism is that you shouldn't take it to heart: you should take it to brain (sounds puky, I know) and learn from it. If you take it to heart, as they say, that's irrational, and you'll either convince yourself it was unfair (and not consider if any of it was worthwhile) or just despair (and do nowt). So, think, and take heart. And if it don't work out in the end: you could certainly get on in the Defence Industry, as various others pointed out. Or consider the civil service Fast Track programme, aiming for the MoD: decent job, you can get to responsibility much quicker than the rest of the civil service sheep, and you might even have the opportunity to change some of the things you (rightly) care about!
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WEBF
My original post on this forum was, in hindsight, harsh. I too had a tough go of it through IOT, opting for the all-expenses paid 30 week course when some had the audacity to pass after a mere 18. Sometime after my grad, an ex-flt cdr confided that an "exec lead" was taken from me to give to a girlie who had struggled elsewhere in the course. As it happened, this meant back into the cold & wet for me, and a less-than-stellar performance, etc etc.
As a new APO, I was somewhat pi$$ed off by this, but you know what? The BFTS course I ended up on was full of a dozen of us, fresh from our IOT grad not 4 days earlier. We had a blast and, had I finished on my original IOT, I'm not sure my first year in the RAF proper would have (could have!!) been nearly so much fun.
Take the sound advice offered here, and if it's what you want, give it another shot in a year or so. There is no other life like it (take that whichever way you like).
Oh, btw, had I been fitter at the start of IOT, chances are things would have been different. I passed the grade, but there is no doubt that when you spend your life constantly knackered, every task becomes more complex than it should otherwise be.
Best of luck
My original post on this forum was, in hindsight, harsh. I too had a tough go of it through IOT, opting for the all-expenses paid 30 week course when some had the audacity to pass after a mere 18. Sometime after my grad, an ex-flt cdr confided that an "exec lead" was taken from me to give to a girlie who had struggled elsewhere in the course. As it happened, this meant back into the cold & wet for me, and a less-than-stellar performance, etc etc.
As a new APO, I was somewhat pi$$ed off by this, but you know what? The BFTS course I ended up on was full of a dozen of us, fresh from our IOT grad not 4 days earlier. We had a blast and, had I finished on my original IOT, I'm not sure my first year in the RAF proper would have (could have!!) been nearly so much fun.
Take the sound advice offered here, and if it's what you want, give it another shot in a year or so. There is no other life like it (take that whichever way you like).
Oh, btw, had I been fitter at the start of IOT, chances are things would have been different. I passed the grade, but there is no doubt that when you spend your life constantly knackered, every task becomes more complex than it should otherwise be.
Best of luck
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WEBF
Not a comment on your performance but I have always found the following words useful.
If
(Rudyard Kipling)
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
Not a comment on your performance but I have always found the following words useful.
If
(Rudyard Kipling)
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
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WEBF,
First, unlucky me-old! $h!t happens all the time, and everyone has to deal with dissappointment at some stage. This sounds terribly patronising I know, but I mean well.
From what you've said, it seems you were under a bit of a spotlight from the word "GO" and didn't really settle into the regime of Basic Training (maybe you didn't get a chance, who knows) I for one though, don't believe you gave yourself the best chance. You certainly do the homework when it comes to RN stuff, and you offer some fairly contraversial debate at times. This could have been a reason for getting singled out. You have a reputation on this forum, and it would'nt take the brains of a rocket scientist to work out exactly who you are (WE, start date etc)
No-one likes a smart-arse, but I'm afraid you have that reputation and you may have nailed your own coffin mate. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but you did go on like a bleedin' Admiral before you'd even joined up!
BD
First, unlucky me-old! $h!t happens all the time, and everyone has to deal with dissappointment at some stage. This sounds terribly patronising I know, but I mean well.
From what you've said, it seems you were under a bit of a spotlight from the word "GO" and didn't really settle into the regime of Basic Training (maybe you didn't get a chance, who knows) I for one though, don't believe you gave yourself the best chance. You certainly do the homework when it comes to RN stuff, and you offer some fairly contraversial debate at times. This could have been a reason for getting singled out. You have a reputation on this forum, and it would'nt take the brains of a rocket scientist to work out exactly who you are (WE, start date etc)
No-one likes a smart-arse, but I'm afraid you have that reputation and you may have nailed your own coffin mate. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but you did go on like a bleedin' Admiral before you'd even joined up!
BD
Thread Starter
Scud.....Thanks, I'll will read and think about everything said here.
Barn Doors.....I think you are a little paranoid. I do NOT believe, not for a single second, that my problems were in any way caused by anything I said on PPRuNe or any of my other actions (like writing to my MP). These things were done before I joined, and I was perfectly entitled to do them.
I don't think any of my postings were too controversial. However, you do have a point about the smart-arse reputation. However, on PPRuNE I never stated stuff just of make myself look good. If I stated facts and figures it was/is/will be to support my argument.
As for being a smart-arse under training - basically I knew better. One of the cardinal rules is that the instructor is ALWAYS right. Therefore I never tried to argue with them or impress them with my brain power. It was neither the time nor the place for that. But the instructor were all aware of my academic background and in a way this was held against me. "You've got a degree........why can't you bull your boots properly?" etc.
It has been suggested that I was under the spotlight for a different reason, one that, if I had known about it, would have made it a lot less stressful. I repeat my point that I think two weeks is too short a time to make an assesment of a person.
It is time for me to a) calm down b) find out what options (if any) I have c) make a rational assesment of what went wrong and why and d) decide the next move.
I think you can appreciate that I am all over the place at the moment. But at least I tried!
Barn Doors.....I think you are a little paranoid. I do NOT believe, not for a single second, that my problems were in any way caused by anything I said on PPRuNe or any of my other actions (like writing to my MP). These things were done before I joined, and I was perfectly entitled to do them.
I don't think any of my postings were too controversial. However, you do have a point about the smart-arse reputation. However, on PPRuNE I never stated stuff just of make myself look good. If I stated facts and figures it was/is/will be to support my argument.
As for being a smart-arse under training - basically I knew better. One of the cardinal rules is that the instructor is ALWAYS right. Therefore I never tried to argue with them or impress them with my brain power. It was neither the time nor the place for that. But the instructor were all aware of my academic background and in a way this was held against me. "You've got a degree........why can't you bull your boots properly?" etc.
It has been suggested that I was under the spotlight for a different reason, one that, if I had known about it, would have made it a lot less stressful. I repeat my point that I think two weeks is too short a time to make an assesment of a person.
It is time for me to a) calm down b) find out what options (if any) I have c) make a rational assesment of what went wrong and why and d) decide the next move.
I think you can appreciate that I am all over the place at the moment. But at least I tried!
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...well we didn't see this one coming folks!
Seriously WEBF - Whilst I sympathize with your plight I am not too surprised. Having read some of your posts in other threads and, more importantly, your responses to several WISE posts in this thread I feel that you just aren't taking onboard the big picture here. Most of the people here have been through or are in a position to know what exactly it is we're looking for/trying to achieve with training and beyond. Yet you still argue. Listen. Action. Cope.
Until you can...
Sometimes it's just not worth trying to shovel s**t uphill with a pointed stick!
Seriously WEBF - Whilst I sympathize with your plight I am not too surprised. Having read some of your posts in other threads and, more importantly, your responses to several WISE posts in this thread I feel that you just aren't taking onboard the big picture here. Most of the people here have been through or are in a position to know what exactly it is we're looking for/trying to achieve with training and beyond. Yet you still argue. Listen. Action. Cope.
Until you can...
Sometimes it's just not worth trying to shovel s**t uphill with a pointed stick!
Thread Starter
I admit it was a failure on my part to not do more to prepare prior to joining. This particularly applies to....
1. Fitness. I considered myself reasonably fit. I followed the (dubiously effective) pre entry training programme they give you. But nothing can prepare you for running about 16 hours a day. I failed to anticipate just how exhausting it would be. It isn't just the PT, it's everything else too (particularly the endless laps around the parade ground for things like having fluff on my beret).
2. Kit. I knew how to wash and iron stuff prior to going in. Of course I did, I am not an idiot! (Some of you might well dispute that.) But I did not practise folding it down to A4 size, nor did I practise ironing in SHARP creases (front/back of trousers, shirt sleeves etc). I didn't know about the A4 size bit, but I should of got more practise in precise ironing and getting creases in the right places. Neither did I practise polishing boots or shoes.
3. Everything else!! No honestly the above two points were the main ones.
Having got there, I also let myself down. One was not drinking enough water. I found it difficult to drink litres of plain water every day, when I didn't feel thirsty. This probably caused my physical (and mental) performance to suffer. Secondly, I failed to get on top of the kit problem from day one. In the first week I put it off to the weekend to sort out, which I sort of did, and it carried on from there.
So, as I see it the problems were ones of the practicalities rather than of attitude. I think the person who said I failed to see the trees for the word had a point!
1. Fitness. I considered myself reasonably fit. I followed the (dubiously effective) pre entry training programme they give you. But nothing can prepare you for running about 16 hours a day. I failed to anticipate just how exhausting it would be. It isn't just the PT, it's everything else too (particularly the endless laps around the parade ground for things like having fluff on my beret).
2. Kit. I knew how to wash and iron stuff prior to going in. Of course I did, I am not an idiot! (Some of you might well dispute that.) But I did not practise folding it down to A4 size, nor did I practise ironing in SHARP creases (front/back of trousers, shirt sleeves etc). I didn't know about the A4 size bit, but I should of got more practise in precise ironing and getting creases in the right places. Neither did I practise polishing boots or shoes.
3. Everything else!! No honestly the above two points were the main ones.
Having got there, I also let myself down. One was not drinking enough water. I found it difficult to drink litres of plain water every day, when I didn't feel thirsty. This probably caused my physical (and mental) performance to suffer. Secondly, I failed to get on top of the kit problem from day one. In the first week I put it off to the weekend to sort out, which I sort of did, and it carried on from there.
So, as I see it the problems were ones of the practicalities rather than of attitude. I think the person who said I failed to see the trees for the word had a point!
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WEBF,
As a non miltary 'guest' in this forum, can I venture a point of view from the other side of the fence.
Firstly, I am not familiar with your PPRUNE history and thus have no axe to grind, but I have been following this thread with interest. Whilst I concur that some of the relies have been a bit harsh, reading your subsequent posts, whether you mean to or not, they come across as a bit arrogant and seem to shout "I know better"....
This is not intended as a personal criticism but I'm just trying to suggest that maybe without meaning to, this is how you came over to the instructing staff. I say this as its a trait I recognise from my past and is why my dream remains unfulfilled, I didn't listen when people told me things and thought I could muddle through in my own way.
I admire and respect you for what you have achieved so far (you did much more than me) but I do think you should take a tough hard look at yourself and how others perceive you.
In closing, I realise that this probably seems the end of the world, but dont despair - there are ALWAYS alternatives. Whilst I would love to be involved in Military aviation (and would do things so differently if I could turn the clock back), there is life beyond that. I now fly gliders as a civilian with probably a much higher standard of living (rightly or wrongly) than most of those who place themselves in harms way to enable me to do so.
Remember, you have two eyes & two ears but only one mouth - thats not a coincidence - read, think, but most importantly LISTEN to the advice you are being offered.
As a non miltary 'guest' in this forum, can I venture a point of view from the other side of the fence.
Firstly, I am not familiar with your PPRUNE history and thus have no axe to grind, but I have been following this thread with interest. Whilst I concur that some of the relies have been a bit harsh, reading your subsequent posts, whether you mean to or not, they come across as a bit arrogant and seem to shout "I know better"....
This is not intended as a personal criticism but I'm just trying to suggest that maybe without meaning to, this is how you came over to the instructing staff. I say this as its a trait I recognise from my past and is why my dream remains unfulfilled, I didn't listen when people told me things and thought I could muddle through in my own way.
I admire and respect you for what you have achieved so far (you did much more than me) but I do think you should take a tough hard look at yourself and how others perceive you.
In closing, I realise that this probably seems the end of the world, but dont despair - there are ALWAYS alternatives. Whilst I would love to be involved in Military aviation (and would do things so differently if I could turn the clock back), there is life beyond that. I now fly gliders as a civilian with probably a much higher standard of living (rightly or wrongly) than most of those who place themselves in harms way to enable me to do so.
Remember, you have two eyes & two ears but only one mouth - thats not a coincidence - read, think, but most importantly LISTEN to the advice you are being offered.
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I agree with Skylark here and I'm just a civvy "guest" too.
You are very lucky, you have entered basic training, failed, THEN had the luxury of 20 or so people who have previously passed give you advice on where you went wrong. For nothing. I think you're the world's luckiest failed recruit right now.
One bit of advice is that there is no rule saying you have to have the last word on a subject. Take advice constructively, don't always try and defend yourself.
So you left the Navy on Thursday wasn't it? What have you do in the 3 days since to help yourself pass next time?
Ps
Can't believe you didn't practice polishing shoes before you joined!
You are very lucky, you have entered basic training, failed, THEN had the luxury of 20 or so people who have previously passed give you advice on where you went wrong. For nothing. I think you're the world's luckiest failed recruit right now.
One bit of advice is that there is no rule saying you have to have the last word on a subject. Take advice constructively, don't always try and defend yourself.
So you left the Navy on Thursday wasn't it? What have you do in the 3 days since to help yourself pass next time?
Ps
Can't believe you didn't practice polishing shoes before you joined!
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WEBF
Re your last post - yet again! You fail to see your problem IS one of attitude and not the practicalities you allude to. They are merely symptoms of a greater problem.
You do not have a God given right to join the military. The selection procedure is there to ensure we start with the right basic standard. The training system is then our tool to develop and mould that individual into a useful part of the overall frontline machine. If you do not or cannot conform to that - for WHATEVER reason - then it is our right to terminate your employment.
Simple. OK?
I am beginning to feel great sympathy for your DS. Whatever attributes you possess which gained you entry to the RN it is becoming clear that good old-fashioned Character and Leadership (to give it its old non-pc term!) was not one of them.
Re your last post - yet again! You fail to see your problem IS one of attitude and not the practicalities you allude to. They are merely symptoms of a greater problem.
You do not have a God given right to join the military. The selection procedure is there to ensure we start with the right basic standard. The training system is then our tool to develop and mould that individual into a useful part of the overall frontline machine. If you do not or cannot conform to that - for WHATEVER reason - then it is our right to terminate your employment.
Simple. OK?
I am beginning to feel great sympathy for your DS. Whatever attributes you possess which gained you entry to the RN it is becoming clear that good old-fashioned Character and Leadership (to give it its old non-pc term!) was not one of them.
Thread Starter
I will soon get a letter from Commander (Training), and that will let me know what the scores is, and what my main shortcomings were (from the instructors' point of view).
Wait and see........
Wait and see........
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WEBF,
Have you registered on www.getfitta.co.uk yet?
Have you been for a walk this weekend, or a run, if not , why not?
Even if you've decided to veg in front of the box, at least do 20 press ups every 20 mins over an hour.
In short, keep doing things, little and often , to achieve your goal
Tony
Have you registered on www.getfitta.co.uk yet?
Have you been for a walk this weekend, or a run, if not , why not?
Even if you've decided to veg in front of the box, at least do 20 press ups every 20 mins over an hour.
In short, keep doing things, little and often , to achieve your goal
Tony