Time to scramble - RAF F4s on QRA
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
If you went through the steps - 3hrs to RS60, RS60 to RS30, Rs30 to CR - it took 3 hours to get them airborne. If you scrambled from 3hrs then the average was between 1-2 hours. Which with the P-Time of 2:15 from the decision to intercept usually meant the difference as whether it was even worth the effort.
QRA was never more than 2 hrs. As Wensleydale said, at 2 hrs we could be at home.
The normal progression was to 90 minutes which, theoretically, meant we had to stay on base.
In practice we were usually relaxed to 2 hrs even when 90 minutes would have been more sensible.
I lived 45 minutes away and have been airborne within 60 minutes. If there was a queue at the main gate we would drive in through the OUT and down the one-way street the wrong way. The police never said a word.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
"Presumably in a more routine sortie, the Shackleton was able to push the radar horizon a few hundred miles east, giving more intercept time?"
Well, perhaps 60 miles on a very good day over-sea only! There is only so much that you can do with a 1943 designed radar in a 1949 designed airframe!! (Probably better than a Nimrod 3 though).
Well, perhaps 60 miles on a very good day over-sea only! There is only so much that you can do with a 1943 designed radar in a 1949 designed airframe!! (Probably better than a Nimrod 3 though).
On one occasion I got a pick up at 200 miles, we tracked for about 4 hours until they out ran us to the south west but Q and Tansor were in contact. When the Bears turned north we regained and gave chase
. I eventually lost them at 225 miles.On another occasion we were over the Kiev and well beyond UKADGE. Kiev launched a Forger to see us off the premises and Buchan scrambled an F4 'for your protection'. Thanks guys, the F4 was 550 miles away.
We had one or two other QRA incidents not involving enemy forces but that is a different story.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
As a result of the Nott Cuts we were down to a one-shot Q. If launched then there would be no further QRA until the following day. This made the ADOC reluctant to launch prematurely. I guess that would be when the Bears may have been suspected to be the Bear D/F on the Cuba run and transiting the Denmark Strait. Also the single Coot could not reach the UKADR so again we were not alerted for that either.
If, OTOH, they could slip in the Bear A/E combine we would usually be called forward for a timed launch based on the P-time. The really gotcha was if they push the Bear F out at low level.
In that case we would generally be launched too late or not at all. The next day, in anticipation, we would be launched again and that was ALWAYS exciting. We usually ran out of food before we ran out of fuel.
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One shot Q! With just 6 crews in total, we held Q from 0800 Monday until 1700 Friday. Buchan once tried to scramble a crew at 1705 on a Friday - too late, we were already in Happy Hour!
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Walk don't run!
I was in charge of the ground crew whilst on ‘Q’ with the Phantoms at Leuchers with that damn box ticking away persistantly.
Early one afternoon one of the pilots came in and said “Buchan has picked up some Bears taking off from #########, we shall be running at 16:30”.
I replied “Can’t we walk at 16:20”.
If looks could have killed I wouldn’t be writing this.
At 16:30 the hooter went off and the aircrew came out running like hell to find us all ready for them with power sets running etc. They were not amused.
Early one afternoon one of the pilots came in and said “Buchan has picked up some Bears taking off from #########, we shall be running at 16:30”.
I replied “Can’t we walk at 16:20”.
If looks could have killed I wouldn’t be writing this.
At 16:30 the hooter went off and the aircrew came out running like hell to find us all ready for them with power sets running etc. They were not amused.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Of course it was a planned launch and I had to go in early to read GASOs, the FOB, and stop press
In that case we would generally be launched too late or not at all. The next day, in anticipation, we would be launched again and that was ALWAYS exciting. We usually ran out of food before we ran out of fuel.
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I went on a trip on one once - 8 hours Lossie to Coningsby. It was a different world. Oven chips featured amongst the vats of food and drinks that were produced.
We transited all the way down to the exercise area off the Wash but the radar went TU. I don't think it was a wind-up but everyone apart from the handling pilot huddled each side of the main spar then jumped up and down together, ostensibly to get the klystron (I think) to work. I don't think the radar was young enough for a magnetron.
I also remember another capex when the Shack turned up with a U/S radar. I felt sorry for them so gave them an alpha control run onto us. The calls of "Fox 1" and "Fox 2" were a delight to hear. The poor chaps then had a long trudge all the way back north.
Happy days.
Regards,
Vernon
We transited all the way down to the exercise area off the Wash but the radar went TU. I don't think it was a wind-up but everyone apart from the handling pilot huddled each side of the main spar then jumped up and down together, ostensibly to get the klystron (I think) to work. I don't think the radar was young enough for a magnetron.
I also remember another capex when the Shack turned up with a U/S radar. I felt sorry for them so gave them an alpha control run onto us. The calls of "Fox 1" and "Fox 2" were a delight to hear. The poor chaps then had a long trudge all the way back north.
Happy days.
Regards,
Vernon
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Equally, through adroit switchery, it was possible to coat the inside of the tube with the metal balls thus expediting its usefulness as a fireside ornament. Not to put too finer point on it, I hated the bl**dy machine.
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Much more class
Scramble Scramble Scramble Lightnings. - YouTube
That's the kind of thing you need to see, how it really used to be done.
Short sleeves, sunshine, daytime, six serviceable aircraft on one station, ah, them were the days.
That's the kind of thing you need to see, how it really used to be done.
Short sleeves, sunshine, daytime, six serviceable aircraft on one station, ah, them were the days.
That's the kind of thing you need to see, how it really used to be done.
Short sleeves, sunshine, daytime, six serviceable aircraft on one station, ah, them were the days.
Short sleeves, sunshine, daytime, six serviceable aircraft on one station, ah, them were the days.
Short sleeves, sunshine, daytime, six serviceable aircraft on one station, ah, them were the days.
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Jumping up and down:
There was a spring operated switch on the Shack Radar control panel which was held on to bring up the high voltage on the radar. This switch drove a rheostat that was like the "Wheatstone Bridge" that we used at school - a motor moved the arm along a metal coil to allow more voltage into the system until your gauge on the display showed that you had enough ergs to operate the radar. Sadly this arm, which was located under the floor between the pilot's seats, could frequently jam and the switch would not bring up the required voltage. The only solution was to get your 2 heaviest chaps on the crew (and there were a few) to jump up and down over the arm to try and free it while the radar operator held the high volts switch on. It sometimes worked, but the sight of a "Hakka" being religiously performed by the crew and the radar magically appearing on the scopes was often too much for passengers to take in!
Incidentally, when a Shackleton went to Marshals for a service, they found fatigue cracking in a spar between the pilots seats. The fleet was about to be grounded for testing etc when the radar team found out and explained the probable cause!
As for a U/S radar - during moratorium in the early 1980s, we were forbidden to dump fuel and we had to burn it into hours, even with no primary sensor. Sadly, landing weight was usually 6 hours away and so we did a good few nav exes and SAR drills to pass away the hours! Acting as a target was also an option on occasions. The annoying time was when the groundcrew had a spate of NFF and we had a succession of non-operating radars during a week. Lots of DCS consumed on those days!
There was a spring operated switch on the Shack Radar control panel which was held on to bring up the high voltage on the radar. This switch drove a rheostat that was like the "Wheatstone Bridge" that we used at school - a motor moved the arm along a metal coil to allow more voltage into the system until your gauge on the display showed that you had enough ergs to operate the radar. Sadly this arm, which was located under the floor between the pilot's seats, could frequently jam and the switch would not bring up the required voltage. The only solution was to get your 2 heaviest chaps on the crew (and there were a few) to jump up and down over the arm to try and free it while the radar operator held the high volts switch on. It sometimes worked, but the sight of a "Hakka" being religiously performed by the crew and the radar magically appearing on the scopes was often too much for passengers to take in!
Incidentally, when a Shackleton went to Marshals for a service, they found fatigue cracking in a spar between the pilots seats. The fleet was about to be grounded for testing etc when the radar team found out and explained the probable cause!
As for a U/S radar - during moratorium in the early 1980s, we were forbidden to dump fuel and we had to burn it into hours, even with no primary sensor. Sadly, landing weight was usually 6 hours away and so we did a good few nav exes and SAR drills to pass away the hours! Acting as a target was also an option on occasions. The annoying time was when the groundcrew had a spate of NFF and we had a succession of non-operating radars during a week. Lots of DCS consumed on those days!
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Pontius Navigator, Wensleydale ...
Have either of you chaps got a pic of said valve you could share ...
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
The klystron was a bucket sized valve much prized as a fireside ornament
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Used to like watching the 8 Sqdn Shacks, nice sound with 4 griffins turning.
MC = Master Controller?
PLE = Planes Limit of Endurance?
And why the the Shack have that spark plug looking thing on top for? I first thought HF aerial but you didn't see that on other aircraft so that idea went out of the window.
Although I tried I never did catch a real QRA with a Shackleton on my radios but living so far south didn't help although exercise time was always fun to monitor. Hearing two F4's being told by a tanker on joining up that he had no fuel for them was one thing, hearing their response on the sqdn air/air was, shall we say amusing.
MC = Master Controller?
PLE = Planes Limit of Endurance?
And why the the Shack have that spark plug looking thing on top for? I first thought HF aerial but you didn't see that on other aircraft so that idea went out of the window.
Although I tried I never did catch a real QRA with a Shackleton on my radios but living so far south didn't help although exercise time was always fun to monitor. Hearing two F4's being told by a tanker on joining up that he had no fuel for them was one thing, hearing their response on the sqdn air/air was, shall we say amusing.